Oxygen Rocks!

[Burndog]

Wanted to try some new techniques yesterday. Reusing a Yeastcake and using Oxygen to ariete Wort.

Will know more once fermentation is complete, but in less than 2 hours fermentation was going full bore.

https://www.facebook.com/steve.guluk/videos/1852152284800056/

Usually fermentation starts well into the following day with my prior shaking of the cartboy technique so this is a dramatic improvement.

Now we'll have to see if the full fermentation process is shorter or if it is just the starting that is different.

Prior yeastcake was no more than a day old also and if this also works out, it will be nice to not have to have purchased more yeast making this homebrew adventure that much more economical.

 

[Burndog]

Update - Don't do it..: Reuse Yeastcake

I had a Pliny just finishing so racked it to keg and then dumped a Blind Pig batch on top of the yeastcake and left over dry hops.

As noted with the Oxygen boost the fermentation took off like a race horse and was complete in no time. Prior to dry hopping I took an FG reading and the beer smelled bad. Not too bad but not as clean as would be expected.

I dry hopped and it improved, then kegged and added another round of dry hops which finally covered the rank smell.

I guess the old, prior dry hops, the left over prior beer (Pliny the Elder) did not mix well with the new fresh batch.

Lesson learned. Don't do it unless you properly wash the yeast, of just buy some new yeast.

 

[Bilsch]

Don't know why you had this problem, normally repitching is done all the time without a problem for many generations. But yea if your batch is infected, regardless whether you 'wash' or not, you're going to repitch your infection.

 

[Burndog]

No, I do not think it was infected..

I believe the taste came from the prior Dry Hops and the small amount of prior beer present. It was only a day old though maybe some oxygen issue could have caused the off-taste. Not really sure at this point.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Something else is up.
If the first batch taste good a new batch on top directly after racking should taste good. Especially if your going from an IPA to an IPA. Even if there different they should blend well as there for the same stlye. I've saved yeast for months from an IPA with no issue.

 

[RM-MN]

Wanted to try some new techniques yesterday. Reusing a Yeastcake and using Oxygen to ariete Wort.

Will know more once fermentation is complete, but in less than 2 hours fermentation was going full bore.

https://www.facebook.com/steve.guluk/videos/1852152284800056/

Usually fermentation starts well into the following day with my prior shaking of the cartboy technique so this is a dramatic improvement.

Now we'll have to see if the full fermentation process is shorter or if it is just the starting that is different.

Prior yeastcake was no more than a day old also and if this also works out, it will be nice to not have to have purchased more yeast making this homebrew adventure that much more economical.

This may have some bearing on your off flavor but I'm not certain.

Yeast need oxygen to reproduce and adding pure oxygen rather than aerating is better for high gravity beers because (within reason) more oxygen means more yeast cells produced.

If you used an entire yeast cake for the new brew you probably overpitched....a lot. Rule of thumb is 1/4 of the cake for the new batch.

Now, you have more cells than needed plus you oxygenated to make more yet. This isn't an ideal situation.

 

[pigroaster]

Thanks for tip on 1/4 of cake. Do you do anything special or just pour off yeast cake and use 1/4 of it after it settles?

 

[Burndog]

This may have some bearing on your off flavor but I'm not certain.

Yeast need oxygen to reproduce and adding pure oxygen rather than aerating is better for high gravity beers because (within reason) more oxygen means more yeast cells produced.

If you used an entire yeast cake for the new brew you probably overpitched....a lot. Rule of thumb is 1/4 of the cake for the new batch.

Now, you have more cells than needed plus you oxygenated to make more yet. This isn't an ideal situation.

Yes, I went from a Pliny which was a higher gravity to the BlindPig and used the full yeast cake that was created from an Oxygenated wort that was very aggressive. Then I reoxygenated the newly introduced wort which took off like a demon...

Too much yeast seems a viable reason.

 

[Weezy]

It'd be very helpful if you could better describe the off flavor, to help pinpoint the issue. Over pirching supposedly leads to yeasty, bready flavor. I've never run into it and I've pitched into cakes a handful of times. I'm currently filling 14 gallon brewbuckets with successive 4 gallon batches being added to the cake. No problems so far.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Many people (not me) have pitched on a full yeast cake with no issues. I never seen a thread that mentions "real bad" or "rank" smells. I could see a hot alcohol taste smell but not rank.

Could be some sort of infection that was caught in time on the first batch not to be noticeable but got funky by the second...just a guess

 

[bleme]

How was the cake stored for that day before pitching?

 

[Yooper]

I saw another thread on here, I think yesterday, where someone was happy because they had signs of fermentation in an hour or something like that. My thought was "oh no". When fermentation starts up that fast, it's a sign of overpitching (by a lot) and/or a too warm fermentation. Skipping the natural life cycle of the yeast and causing an explosive fermentation generally is not going to be beneficial to the flavor.

It's generally hard to overpitch but not if you use an entire yeast cake. A yeast cake is enough for maybe 5-6 more batches depending on the OG of the new batch.

Here is a little info on why not: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=166221 This could explain quite a few off flavors.

I have done it once or twice. Once it was to make a huge big dopplebock and I made a small batch of lighter lager (3 gallons) to have enough yeast for the dopplebock. Another time I went from a cream ale to an Arrogant Bastard clone.

 

[Kwitty]

Overpitching is not good. Going from a higher gravity to a lower is not good. Reusing yeast from a very hoppy beer is not good. The hop oils coat the yeast and can have an effect on the yeast going forward. Seems as though you have a trifecta working against you. Any or all of these could be the problem.

 

[Burndog]

How was the cake stored for that day before pitching?

Back in the Danby for only a day till the new wort was introduced.

 

[Burndog]

I saw another thread on here, I think yesterday, where someone was happy because they had signs of fermentation in an hour or something like that. My thought was "oh no". When fermentation starts up that fast, it's a sign of overpitching (by a lot) and/or a too warm fermentation. Skipping the natural life cycle of the yeast and causing an explosive fermentation generally is not going to be beneficial to the flavor.

It's generally hard to overpitch but not if you use an entire yeast cake. A yeast cake is enough for maybe 5-6 more batches depending on the OG of the new batch.

Here is a little info on why not: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=166221 This could explain quite a few off flavors.

I have done it once or twice. Once it was to make a huge big dopplebock and I made a small batch of lighter lager (3 gallons) to have enough yeast for the dopplebock. Another time I went from a cream ale to an Arrogant Bastard clone.

Mine took off in no time... 1 hour easy.

The off-flavor was hard to identify other than smelling a little like crap... Very subtle off flavor and not "bread-like" but maybe that was the case... It's been a while now and it being kegged and additionally dry hopped in the keg has ended up with it being a nice brew.

My comparison was the prior blind Pig clone that was super tasty. A bit less alcohol than I prefer as it was too easy to drink.

Learning a lot and will start washing and separating yeast in the appropriate proportions and try again. Looking to do a NEIPA if anyone knows of a super great recipe?