Once you go all-grain, do you ever go back?

[nigel31]

Hey Crew,

I've been brewing for a bit over a year now, and hadn't been quite content with most of my extract brews (an odd "signature" flavor in the majority of them that I've yet to identify--I used only "quality" extract--NB and Midwest, for the record).

This year, I've one all-grain (doing mainly smaller, 3-gallon batches with my 5-gallon mash/lauter tun). A friend of mine (my brewing mentor, so to speak) asked if I was planning any more extract brews, and I said no. I've been enjoying all-graining it and haven't had that "signature" flavor in one of my AG brews. In fact, my best brews have been since "upgrading," if you will.

So, the question is, once you go AG do you ever really go back? Interested in what you all say.

Nige

 

[McGarnigle]

I don't have a full all-grain setup and do BIAB, mostly half batches. I still do mini-mash and even extract on occasion. People buy me extract kits (I've never used a kit for AG). I wouldn't be opposed to doing a no boil kit (or Brewhouse kit) in the future if i were pressed for time.

So yes, I'll go back.

 

[kaiser423]

Some people seem to be able to bounce between the two.

Once I had the equipment and everything, it felt much more like "making beer" to me than extract kits, and I just like it better for that and other reasons. So, I haven't done an extract or partial-mash since. 2 extract, 1 partial mash, then lots of all-grains.

 

[caver95]

Well, I have done two extract batches since going AG. Both I have been teaching people. I guess I am kind of a dork and like the whole process of all grain.

 

[Arneba28]

Yeah I have a few times. I have done extract batches a few times when I just didnt have the time to do a full mash and sparge. I have also supplememented my grain bill with some extract for a few high gravity beers when my old mash tun couldnt hold all the grain.

 

[Bernie Brewer]

I have not, but I am sure plenty go back and forth.

 

[djsethall]

Based merely on cost, no. I did a 6 gallon batch of all grain IPA yesterday. Total cost with hops was $9.54. I dont see myself letting someone else making my extracts anymore.

 

[Shaneoco1981]

I am speaking for a friend who is my mentor in getting into homebrewing myself and for the most part, no. You pretty much stick with all grain once you are there. He has gone back to doing an extract batch every now and then. He recently did an extract because of volume we were trying to hit. We were doing a double batch were he and I could keep 6 or so gallons to take home. The shear volume kept us using extract, but for the most part, he does solely all grain.

 

[ndsgr]

I brew because I enjoy the process. AG adds more of what I like to do. So, no, I don't bounce back personally.

That said, I have helped newer brewers with extract batches. I don't know if that counts or not.

 

[integrator]

only if I get a free extract kit....

 

[Golddiggie]

I did all of three extract (with specialty grains) batches, one mostly mash, and then went all grain... I started with BIAB but have since converted my Coleman Xtreme cooler into a mash tun. I'm even getting ready to start making more wort to use for starters with future batches.

I could see using the BIAB method again, but I don't see myself ever going back to extract (even with specialty grains) brewing again. As already mentioned, with all grain it feels more like you're actually brewing (IMO) and you have better control over what goes into your batch. Knowing exactly what grains are in a brew is important IMO.

Besides, I can easily make 3+ batches with what it used to cost me for an extract kit.

 

[nigel31]

I'd say that teaching/mentoring absolutely counts, yes. I've gotten another close friend into brewing, and helped him with an extract brew recently. I didn't even give it a second thought, of course. Brewing's brewing, but I enjoy the process and detail of AGing more, though when I first began brewing, I thought, Why the hell go through all that just to make beer. The cool thing about our "hobby" (sport--haha) is that it can be approached a few different ways and is completely flexible based on a person's goals/time/personality.

For what it's worth, I'm doing no-sparge, small-batch all-grain batches, and they couldn't be easier. Sparging takes more time and calculations, and I didn't want to go through all that (and wanted to keep the gear simpler/smaller), so this allows me to make the best beer I've made with minimal additional cost/time. Totally works for me.

 

[kpr121]

Ideally, no I would not want to do extracts since I have started AG. Normally I just do 5 gallon AG batches with my setup (only have a 5 gallon cooler MLT).

But...

My brew partner and I do either 5 gallon AG or 10 gallon PM on one turkey fryer and 5 gal extract batches on the second fryer sometimes. These are what we call "bring back the pipeline" brew days. Nothing like having 6 cases of beer brewed in 6 hours. Its a lot of work, but so worth it with our schedules.

Like others, one thing that really keeps me away from extract brewing is the price. I just did a Blonde Ale that cost me less than 10 bucks for 5 gallons. Would have easily been double if doing extract.

 

[BrewThruYou]

I will never go back except to make yeast starters.

 

[IrregularPulse]

I brewed AG for 2+ years and just last week did an extract batch and have 2 more coming my way thanks to AHS's $20 sale. This is the only time I've justified it though due to comparable expense. Sometimes, it's nice to just get a quick beer into the fermeneter though.

 

[Revvy]

I go back and forth all the time, because I'm not an ag or an extract brewer, I'm a HOMEBREWER and my goal is to make great beer. The methods, or whether or not it's extract or AG is not what makes great beer. The Brewer should make great beer with whatever materials at hand.

I've tasted some great extracts and I've tasted some ****ty all grain batches. It all depends on the brewer and his process. Not whether it's an AG or an extract beer. Ag is not the holy grail of brewing. If you refuse to read a hydromter, don't pay attention to temp control, don't make a yeast starter for liquid, or pitch the right amount of yeast, and follow the 1-2-3 rule regardless of whether the yeast lagged for 72 hours or not, you're going to make crappy beer regardless of it being an extract or ag batch..

And if you do all those things that the AG brewer didn't, and use the freshest extract and do a full boil and late extract addition, you're going to make great if not award winning beers. It's that simple. I think people who blame extract for their crappy beers are copping out, and maybe should considering mastering them instead of thinking ag is going to be the answer to good tasting beer....

Besides I have a couple recipes that converting them from extract with grains to AG, hasn't made them better. In fact some of them are better tasting in their original form.

 

[FromZwolle]

i'd love to get my hands on some cheap dme for a few quick, easy batches i could whip up when i don't have 5 hrs to brew. It's only the high price of extract thats stopping me, and the fact that i have around 250# of various grains in stock.

 

[Whut]

Sometimes, it's nice to just get a quick beer into the fermeneter though.

I go back and forth all the time, because I'm not an ag or an extract brewer, I'm a HOMEBREWER and my goal is to make great beer.

I couldn't agree more with both of these statements. In fact, I've got both AG and Extract brews fermenting right now.

 

[weirdboy]

I made an extract batch of coconut porter a couple of months ago. In fact it advanced in the HBT competition. Not sure how well it did apart from that yet.

I mostly stick with all grain because of the cost. But, I had a bunch of extra DME in my cabinet from a fire sale at a place that was closing and selling for cost, so I have occasionally been making some extract batches using that stuff. Unfortunately, I'm out of DME now so my costs have gone back up.

If it were cheaper I would brew extract a lot more. I like the idea of being able to squeeze in a quick batch on a whim in the evening, which isn't feasible for me if I'm doing AG. In fact the original recipe of coconut porter was just such a recipe. I just threw it together using what I had in the house one night a year or two ago, and I really liked it so I decided to make it again a couple of months ago.

 

[nigel31]

Easy there, Reverend. Take a step back, mate.

Wasn't talking smack about extracts or extract brewing (or extract brewers). Not at all, not my thing. Simply found that my AGs have come out better, more flavorful, and without that odd flavor/aroma I'd gotten with extracts. It only occurred to me once I experimented with AG that, Wait, that flavor's not there! <Eureka moment>

We're all HOMEBREWERS and proud of it, of course. To me, if you make beer and you like it, it's mission: accomplished, period. It's why I said in my second post that the "sport" is great because of it's flexibility. Several ways to skin a beercat, and all are great and can produce prime product. Just a matter of how geeky one wants to get.

With all due respect to all here, I was just wondering if some people do go back and forth between the two. For me, personally, I'm enjoying the process, the gear, and the flavor benefits of AG brewing, and because I enjoy it so much, will probably keep on enjoying it.

 

[FromZwolle]

Easy there, Reverend. Take a step back, mate.

Wasn't talking smack about extracts or extract brewing (or extract brewers). Not at all, not my thing. Simply found that my AGs have come out better, more flavorful, and without that odd flavor/aroma I'd gotten with extracts. It only occurred to me once I experimented with AG that, Wait, that flavor's not there! <Eureka moment>

We're all HOMEBREWERS and proud of it, of course. To me, if you make beer and you like it, it's mission: accomplished, period. It's why I said in my second post that the "sport" is great because of it's flexibility. Several ways to skin a beercat, and all are great and can produce prime product. Just a matter of how geeky one wants to get.

With all due respect to all here, I was just wondering if some people do go back and forth between the two. For me, personally, I'm enjoying the process, the gear, and the flavor benefits of AG brewing, and because I enjoy it so much, will probably keep on enjoying it.

he's not angry, just passionate.

 

[Revvy]

Easy there, Reverend. Take a step back.

WTF I just gave my opinion, like everyone else....

With all due respect to all here, I was just wondering if some people do go back and forth between the two. For me, personally, I'm enjoying the process, the gear, and the flavor benefits of AG brewing, and because I enjoy it so much, will probably keep on enjoying it.

And I think you've seen quite a lot of folks posting on here go back and forth all the time.....Between extract and all grain....And as to 'flavor benefits" what the hell's that? The ONLY difference between AG and extract is that we make the extract ourselves as opposed to the matser who EXTRACTS it for us...there's NO flavor difference if the extract is fresh, and the brewer doesn't ruin it with crappy process.

There are quite a few commercial breweries, including many many great micro breweries that brew with extract.....And they like many extract homebrewers even manage to win awards for their beers......

 

[nigel31]

Seemed accusatory and peeved, but of course, I could only read what was written; didn't hear him say it.

Figured I'd set the record straight. Hell, I'm passionate, too.

 

[sjbeerman]

I started AG at the end of last year and I have done 4 AG batches so far. My next brew will be a Raspberry Wheat and I figured it wasn't worth it to do that batch by AG. Therefore, I will be going the extract route this time. My last AG wheat was much harder than I realized it would be (e.g., stuck sparge, drop in efficiency..). For future brews, I will mainly stick to AG, but I will probably do some extract batches every now and then.

 

[wildwest450]

NEVER


But that's just me.


_

 

[nigel31]

Okay, all's cool, Revvy.

I, too, have read where people moving into AG look down at extract brewing. Different strokes for different folks, I say. I've tasted/made wonderful, perfect extract brews; couldn't've been better no matter how they were brewed. I'm on board.

Perhaps I read a tone in your email when you mentioned people blaming extracts for poor beer. Tough in this (typing) medium to always get the intended purpose (hence those emoticons). Sorry if I misread.

 

[j1laskey]

Which is harder to do, in order to achieve great tasting beer?

1. Mash in a MLT

2. Stove top mash in BIAB

 

[pavs]

I'm not opposed to going back to extract, it's just that I have really good LHBS here in CT with great prices on all grain stuff. So I guess it would be the cost for me that keeps me to all grain. I also like the control and knowing exactly what's going into my beer.

 

[nigel31]

Hmmm, j1laskey, never done the BIAB method, but I know it works beautifully for many. I went the cooler route for ease of locking in mash temps. The BIAB method may indeed be somewhat easier, technically, but I'd have to say that coolers lock in precise mash temps better and with much less (if any) monitoring during the mash.

 

[Golddiggie]

I see it as another personal choice/preference... I like knowing exactly what's going into my brew, not having to guess at what else is in the extract (for malts)... I also like tweaking recipes to be more of what I want, not what someone else has decided is a good brew. While kits can produce some really good brew, I can't see myself going back to them. At least not with any regularity.

I will say that I'm much happier with what I get from an all grain batch, when compared with the extract batches I made. But, I think that could be more because I'm controlling more aspects of the batch than I was with the kits.

Also, I don't believe freshness comes into play with DME, LME most likely, but not DME. As long as it's not opened that is. With all grain, if you crush the grain right before you brew the batch (or the same day at least) you'll have very fresh grain for the mash. I'm in the process of going through all the crushed specialty grains I bought before I picked up my Barley Crusher. As I use grains up, I'm replacing them with whole grain versions. Keeping them sealed up tight too. I kind of wish I hadn't bought so much of some of the grains, so that I'd be able to order whole grain versions sooner.

 

[weirdboy]

I see it as another personal choice/preference... I like knowing exactly what's going into my brew, not having to guess at what else is in the extract (for malts)... I also like tweaking recipes to be more of what I want, not what someone else has decided is a good brew. While kits can produce some really good brew, I can't see myself going back to them. At least not with any regularity.

Extract != kit

 

[j1laskey]

To convert starches to fermentable sugars, temp and time are critical. So I ask, is it is easier to maintain temps by closing your cooler lid and setting the timer, or to closely monitor you conversion process on the stove, while increasing and decreasing the temp so you constantly maintain the temp you want? I think I have the most control of what is happening to my beer at the most "scientific" point of the brew session when I control conversion on the stove....IMO.

 

[millsware]

I've been doing all-grain for a while, but recently jumped on the AHS 20$ kit sale and chose extract. It was nice to be able to brew 15 gallons in less than the time that a 5 gallon batch normally takes. It was also nice to not have to worry about efficiency, stuck sparges, etc.

Although I do love the smell of the mash.

 

[nigel31]

Hey, that's okay. Whichever way works better for you is the way to go. After I've preheated my cooler with some very hot water for a bit while crushing my grains, I've noticed that after an hour of a mash, the temp's barely moved if at all. That's why coolers are popular: locking in temps, and taking the guesswork and fidgeting out of the process.

 

[724b]

I periodically do an extract beer, but rarely because I enjoy the all grain process.

 

[TTB-J]

I'm not an AG brewer for one simple reason: partial mash batches take less time to brew and clean. But I have to pipe in because I disagree with the OP's implication that there is some sort of unavoidable off flavor with all extract brews. That is simply not true. I have made batches that didn't taste good, but it had nothing to do with the fact that I used extract, and everything to do with the fact that I had a bad process (e.g. not pitching enough yeast, bad temperature control, etc.).

 

[nigel31]

I'd simply stated that I, personally, found a signature flavor. Didn't mean to imply that all extract brews had 'em. No offense meant there. For me, AG eliminates whatever was there that I didn't dig; not that it's "better" or anything like that. Can't explain why, really. Zero wrong with extract brews, and I wasn't looking to "blame my tools."

 

[HiGravShawn]

I did about three extracts before going to all grain and then did 15+ batches AG. Lately I don't have a lot of free time and a recent competition had some really good extract winners so to get in more brewing I brewed my last 2-3 early Sat morning as extracts. They've all been as good as the AG versions (if maybe a little more body) and took 3.5 hours vs 5-7 hours. I still have my AG equip and plan to use it, but barring certain special brews, cost is the only really downside to extract and honestly my time is worth more than the difference there anyway.

Edit: Also while every extract I've made was good if not great I had to work hard to condition my water and watch temp to avoid a certain astringency to my AG brews which made some barely passable so you do what works.

 

[jafo28]

Been doing all grain since October 2010, and have done one extract since. It was my first lager and with work I wasn't going to have time to do an all grain batch. I also wanted to concentrate on fermentation temp of this batch. I just kegged it a week ago and the sample I had was awesome. I believe fermentation temp control is critical and newer brewers often overlook this. I've always been particularly anal about my temps, I first built a ferm chamber and have since moved up to a chest freezer with a temp controller. Beers have really improved, with proper temp control.

 

[curlyfat]

I started AG in 2005 and fell in love with going through the entire process from grain-to-glass.

Last summer I sent SWMBO to the LHBS for wheat malt, and she came back with wheat DME. So, I figured, why not? I brewed a honey-hefe-weizen that came in 2nd at the local competition. It was quick easy and fun.

So, yesterday I had some kits I'd bought from AHS for $20 (two amber kits to make 10g) that I brewed while mashing another brew. It was awesome to throw down two batches and add very little time to my brew-day. I think I'll be going back and forth more often.

Oh, and I did associate all-grain with better beer for awhile. Looking back, though, I realize I added temp control, starters, etc. at the same time, so there you go.