Omega Labs Bayern Lager vs. Octoberfest

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Bobby_M

Bobby_M

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I've been using Omega yeast for almost 100% of my brewing for the past 3 years and I really like what they are doing. Aside from all the cool exclusive stuff, one of my favorites is the Bayern Lager which is allegedly from Augustiner-Bräu. I've brewed a wide array of gold medal winning beers with it, from Helles Export, German Pilsner, Doppelbock, Rauchbier, and a Märzen that took a 2nd BOS. Its worked out so well that I typically ignore all the other German yeast strains because if it ain't broke.

It's been a while since I suffered the extra work of split batching but I am committed to at least the next bunch of brews. This time around I'm putting the Bayern up against the Octoberfest strain ( Weihenstephan 206) for a Marzen style Rauchbier. I'll report back when it's ready. 60% Beech Malt, 1.053 OG, 26 IBUs, 1.75 pitch rate.

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Following. I’ll be curious to find out whether the Oktoberfest strain from Omega is in fact equivalent to WLP820, which is laggy with high final gravity, or more equivalent to Wyeast 2206, which is just about the best commercial lager yeast sold by anybody (i.e., these two can NOT both be from W 206, they are much too different).
 
dmtaylor said:
Following. I’ll be curious to find out whether the Oktoberfest strain from Omega is in fact equivalent to WLP820, which is laggy with high final gravity, or more equivalent to Wyeast 2206, which is just about the best commercial lager yeast sold by anybody (i.e., these two can NOT both be from W 206, they are much too different).
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Call me dense, but your post just made me see the obvious reference of W206 in the moniker Wyeast 2206.

But getting back on thread to @Bobby_M 's original post, I'm also a big fan boy of Augustiner strain yeast. My recent go-to has been White Labs WLP-860. Currently lagering a Helles that I have high hopes about. I've been struggling for years, trying to perfect my Helles, and think I may have finally nailed it. I'm actually a little afraid to tap the keg, fearing that it may come up short of expectations.
 
I've only once tried to make a Münchner Hell (living in Munich, I feel there's no real point in making one yourself) and used the Imperial L17 Harvest yeast, which is said to originate from Augustiner, the quintessential brewery of Münchner Hell. I ended up rather disappointed - the beer had some sort of red apple character that was just out of place. Seemed just fine at bottling, though. Maybe I should have made an even bigger starter, idk.

I wonder of Omega's "Bayern Lager" is the same strain?
 
dmtaylor said:
Following. I’ll be curious to find out whether the Oktoberfest strain from Omega is in fact equivalent to WLP820, which is laggy with high final gravity, or more equivalent to Wyeast 2206, which is just about the best commercial lager yeast sold by anybody (i.e., these two can NOT both be from W 206, they are much too different).
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I'm a big fan of WLP833 Bock lager yeast, I actually like it better than WY2206. It really leaves a full bready malt flavor behind that I can't seem to get otherwise. Give it a try if you haven't!
 
TheMadKing said:
I'm a big fan of WLP833 Bock lager yeast, I actually like it better than WY2206. It really leaves a full bready malt flavor behind that I can't seem to get otherwise. Give it a try if you haven't!
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Just used this yeast (WLP833) for the first time on a 1.095 OG Dopplebock. It's still chuggin after 16 days in the primary, down to 1.027 as of right now (according to my Tilt). I've never seen a yeast ferment more slowly, and this was after pure O2 oxygenation, yeast nutrient added and a 4L yeast starter! Is this slow speed normal?

My club just announced a club-only competition in November with Marzen being one of two choices. I was considering pitching the yeast slurry from the Dopplebock, but kind of need a quicker fermentation to be ready in time.
 
stealthfixr said:
Just used this yeast (WLP833) for the first time on a 1.095 OG Dopplebock. It's still chuggin after 16 days in the primary, down to 1.027 as of right now (according to my Tilt). I've never seen a yeast ferment more slowly, and this was after pure O2 oxygenation, yeast nutrient added and a 4L yeast starter! Is this slow speed normal?

My club just announced a club-only competition in November with Marzen being one of two choices. I was considering pitching the yeast slurry from the Dopplebock, but kind of need a quicker fermentation to be ready in time.
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That is definitely not something I have experienced. Lager yeasts ferment more slowly (at lager temps) than ale yeasts anyway though, so I just plan on 10-14 days to ferment a lager at 49F unless I start doing the "quick lager" thing and ramping the temp at ~50% attenuation (about 3 days in). That will speed up primary to 7-9 days usually
 
1.095 is a big beer. Most of mine are around 1.040 to 1.060. WLP833 alcohol tolerance is 8-12%. Maybe it is taking a bit longer to munch it’s way through it all. If your culture represents the bottom (8%), maybe you might need to dose it with a different WLP833 pack to get it to finish up.

(Or at this point I suppose you could dose it with a packet of US05 ale yeast and bring it up to D-rest temps). Your profile is already established, sometimes you can finish out with another yeast if you aren’t saving the WLP833 yeast cake. I’d still call it a lager...!
 
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stealthfixr said:
Just used this yeast (WLP833) for the first time on a 1.095 OG Dopplebock. It's still chuggin after 16 days in the primary, down to 1.027 as of right now (according to my Tilt). I've never seen a yeast ferment more slowly, and this was after pure O2 oxygenation, yeast nutrient added and a 4L yeast starter! Is this slow speed normal?

My club just announced a club-only competition in November with Marzen being one of two choices. I was considering pitching the yeast slurry from the Dopplebock, but kind of need a quicker fermentation to be ready in time.
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Wow, that's a big-ass Bock! Don't think I've ever seen one above ~8.5%, and yours is already at 10%. I could imagine the yeast is just about crapping out now and the fermentation will be dragged out a bit. Anyways, I would not reuse the slurry...
 
TheMadKing said:
I'm a big fan of WLP833 Bock lager yeast, I actually like it better than WY2206. It really leaves a full bready malt flavor behind that I can't seem to get otherwise. Give it a try if you haven't!
Click to expand...
Hmm, I've had the opposite experience. Was underwhelmed by WLP833, then tried 2206 on my marzen last year and LOVED it. My go to for malty lagers now.
 
Brooothru said:
Call me dense, but your post just made me see the obvious reference of W206 in the moniker Wyeast 2206.

But getting back on thread to @Bobby_M 's original post, I'm also a big fan boy of Augustiner strain yeast. My recent go-to has been White Labs WLP-860. Currently lagering a Helles that I have high hopes about. I've been struggling for years, trying to perfect my Helles, and think I may have finally nailed it. I'm actually a little afraid to tap the keg, fearing that it may come up short of expectations.
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Self reply:

I couldn't wait any longer. Yesterday while tending to my six conditioning/lagering babies, I just HAD to sample my Helles. It's been carbed and lagering for a little more than a month.

TL;DR: It's really good. I'll have to bottle some samples in about three weeks to meet the competition entry deadline. Then it'll be the nervous watch and wait for the scoresheets. High hopes.
 
I can confirm that Bayern was more active than the Octoberfest. Five days in at 50F and Bayern is down to 1.011 with zero krausen and Octoberfest is still actively fermenting with a 1/2" krausen and down to 1.013. I put about 350B cells of Octoberfest into 3 gallons and 280B of Bayern into 3 gallons.
 
Bobby_M said:
I can confirm that Bayern was more active than the Octoberfest. Five days in at 50F and Bayern is down to 1.011 with zero krausen and Octoberfest is still actively fermenting with a 1/2" krausen and down to 1.013. I put about 350B cells of Octoberfest into 3 gallons and 280B of Bayern into 3 gallons.
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Yeah, I treat my Bayern like a diva (huge starter build-up, nutrients, etc.), and it's usually done in 5 days for me (1.055 -> 1.012) with d-rest. It's my go-to for my festbier.
 
Bobby_M said:
I can confirm that Bayern was more active than the Octoberfest. Five days in at 50F and Bayern is down to 1.011 with zero krausen and Octoberfest is still actively fermenting with a 1/2" krausen and down to 1.013. I put about 350B cells of Octoberfest into 3 gallons and 280B of Bayern into 3 gallons.
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Well, this answers my original question.... the Omega Octoberfest yeast must NOT be WLP820, because that one would have been more laggy and crapped out at 70% apparent attenuation (1.016) and yours is already down to 1.013 (75% atten) and is still going. So that must be "equivalent" to Wyeast 2206, i.e., Weihenstephan 206, with WLP820 being equivalent to none of the above, which is what I figured. :)

So...... I expect you are really going to love the Octoberfest beer, maybe as much or possibly even better than Bayern.

Cheers. :)
 
Omega Bayern is my lager yeast of choice. I’ve tried 34/70, but I like the Augustiner strain as a better all purpose lager strain. Clean, no diacetyl issues, consistent fermentation, drops plenty clear through the lagering process.

looking forward to hearing the results though.
 
dirty_martini said:
Omega Bayern is my lager yeast of choice. I’ve tried 34/70, but I like the Augustiner strain as a better all purpose lager strain. Clean, no diacetyl issues, consistent fermentation, drops plenty clear through the lagering process.

looking forward to hearing the results though.
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Augustiner is quickly becoming my favored lager yeast, though I really like Andechs as well. Still like the old standby WLP-830 version of 34/70, but Augustiner and Andechs are replacing it more and more often in both my domestic and Continental lagers.
 
Brooothru said:
Augustiner is quickly becoming my favored lager yeast, though I really like Andechs as well. Still like the old standby WLP-830 version of 34/70, but Augustiner and Andechs are replacing it more and more often in both my domestic and Continental lagers.
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34/70 is the most used Lager yeast in the world. You know it’s great and the availability in dry yeast packets makes it so easy to use. But for me, as a homebrewer, I like taking the road less travelled and want flavors I can’t buy as regularly. Augustiner has given me that, though I’m super interested in the andechs strain as well. My Brewing mentor, who’s won a lot of GABF and WBC medals told me he loves the andechs strain for stronger lagers, anything from dortmonders to bocks. I’m curious how it would be in pilsners. I haven’t had it, but I know bissel bros in Maine uses it in their pils.
 
That WLP833 is from Ayinger, and makes great malty lagers with no sulfur at all. I use it all the time. I recently have used Imperial Harvest L-17 yeast and this yeast is from Augustiner. This yeast is also amazing and I have it fermenting right now on a Vienna Lager. The last time I used this yeast it was stellar. So between these two yeast strains you can brew super quality German lagers in my opinion. Also great for other style lagers as well.

John
 
Definitely a great yeast. There are a lot of very good yeast propagators to chose from in the home brew marketplace, and I've used most of them. When it comes to lagers, for some reason I keep coming back mostly to White Labs. WLP-860, -835X, -833, and of course -830 are all great.
 
Brooothru said:
Definitely a great yeast. There are a lot of very good yeast propagators to chose from in the home brew marketplace, and I've used most of them. When it comes to lagers, for some reason I keep coming back mostly to White Labs. WLP-860, -835X, -833, and of course -830 are all great.
Click to expand...

As stated above, omega Bayern and imperial harvest are both Augustiner. I’ve used both with success, but overall I’ve had better results with the omega versions of yeasts. I tend to prefer them for lagers especially over white labs, as you’re already starting with a much bigger pitch. So it’s that much easier to build a starter to the cell count for your lagers.

The other benefit of omega is often everyday available strains are only available seasonally from white labs.
 
dirty_martini said:
As stated above, omega Bayern and imperial harvest are both Augustiner. I’ve used both with success, but overall I’ve had better results with the omega versions of yeasts. I tend to prefer them for lagers especially over white labs, as you’re already starting with a much bigger pitch. So it’s that much easier to build a starter to the cell count for your lagers.

The other benefit of omega is often everyday available strains are only available seasonally from white labs.
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Agree, Omega has very good selection of 'non-special' seasonal and the high yeast cell count makes it attractive. I had drifted away from White Labs for a year or so, but I've come back with the advent of their Pure Pitch packaging.

The rumors of in-house lab issues also had me looking at other propagators. They seem to be back on track, and I always make starters. In the last year I'd guess that I've used White Labs at least 60% of the time.
 
dirty_martini said:
As stated above, omega Bayern and imperial harvest are both Augustiner. I’ve used both with success, but overall I’ve had better results with the omega versions of yeasts. I tend to prefer them for lagers especially over white labs, as you’re already starting with a much bigger pitch. So it’s that much easier to build a starter to the cell count for your lagers.

The other benefit of omega is often everyday available strains are only available seasonally from white labs.
Click to expand...

Omega is a great company to work with. I don't know if I had any direct influence on this, but I approached them and expressed my extreme disappointment that they were offering every single strain through Northern Brewer and didn't open that up to other retailers. I mean, here I am a relatively long standing internet retailer in the Northeast U.S. with not a yeast lab for hundreds of miles. All I had available were yeasts propagated in the far reaches of the West Coast (did you know we pay about $2 in shipping PER PACK?). They had an opportunity to make a big scene in uncharted lands. Boom, they released 10 more strains in homebrew packs the next month. Imperial is the only other company nipping at their heels via their new building in Philadelphia, but yet to ship homebrew packs out of there.

I'm also psyched to see the increase in slurry volume from Omega recently. 150ml. I'm putting 200B cells in the calculators with those new packs and I'm very comfortable with a single fresh pack pitch in a sub 1.060 ale (which is what most customers expect to be able to do).

I'm kegging the two beers in the split batch today. Report to follow next week.
 
Bobby_M said:
Omega is a great company to work with. I don't know if I had any direct influence on this, but I approached them and expressed my extreme disappointment that they were offering every single strain through Northern Brewer and didn't open that up to other retailers. I mean, here I am a relatively long standing internet retailer in the Northeast U.S. with not a yeast lab for hundreds of miles. All I had available were yeasts propagated in the far reaches of the West Coast (did you know we pay about $2 in shipping PER PACK?). They had an opportunity to make a big scene in uncharted lands. Boom, they released 10 more strains in homebrew packs the next month. Imperial is the only other company nipping at their heels via their new building in Philadelphia, but yet to ship homebrew packs out of there.

I'm also psyched to see the increase in slurry volume from Omega recently. 150ml. I'm putting 200B cells in the calculators with those new packs and I'm very comfortable with a single fresh pack pitch in a sub 1.060 ale (which is what most customers expect to be able to do).

I'm kegging the two beers in the split batch today. Report to follow next week.
Click to expand...

That's fantastic that they've increased cell counts. Between Escarpment/Omega/Imperial there is no reason for me to consider White Labs anymore (not that I have in many years).
 
No finite conclusion to report yet as the beers need a little more time to clear. I tend to use BioFine in the kegs as a fast lagering agent but didn't do it this time.
Bayern was fastest out of the gate and hit 1.011 in 4 days while Octoberfest was at 1.014 and still chugging hard. Bayern had a low sulfur aroma and Octoberfest had medium-low acetaldehyde.

Raised temps to 60F and waited another week. Bayern ended at 1.009 and Octoberfest was at 1.010. All byproducts were cleaned up. At kegging the Octoberfest had a noticeable increase in mouthfeel and malt character over Bayern, much more than I'd expect from one gravity point. Bayern tasted a bit more "German" due to the trace level of sulfur.


PS: I'm getting into a split batch groove lately. I have an American Pale Ale split between Omega Scottish Ale and Brit 8 (Fullers) and will be splitting an American Stout with Chico and either Wyeast Ringwood or Northwest next time.
 
The results are in. Both beers cleared up quickly on their own in the 2.5 gallon kegs (something you don't realize happens when you're used to 5 gallon batches).

The Octoberfest strain left the beer with a little more mouthfeel, more esters, and more smoke.

The Bayern strain seems crisper with a more subtle smoke that blends with the malt better. It has a notably more German flavor with a touch of sulfur. About 20 people tasted both at a homebrew club meeting last night and 100% of the people preferred the Bayern. This is not a conclusive statement about it being a better strain for all cases, but it validates my previous experience that Bayern is a damn good yeast for any German lager.
 

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