Older bottles losing carbonation

[DieTheVillain]

Hey all,

I have been brewing for about a yearns and I have been saving bottles from each batch to try over several months so I can learn about what ages well and what difference present themselves after aging.

Lately a few of my first beers have been so flat that even after an incorrect and slightly hard pour I get no head. No carbonation present in my glass and almost no 'Hiss' when opening the bottle.

This has worsened over time, they were fully carbed a month after bottling, about 50% at 6 months, and now at about 11 months they are completely flat...

Any ideas what could be going on?

Any and all help is appreciated

 

[doug293cz]

Your caps are leaking. If you are reusing twist-off cap bottles, that would cause the problem. If using regular bottles, you might want to replace the bell on your capper. It might have worn/deformed with use so that it no longer gives the crown caps a good crimp.

Brew on

 

[ncbrewer]

Your caps are leaking. If you are reusing twist-off cap bottles, that would cause the problem. If using regular bottles, you might want to replace the bell on your capper. It might have worn/deformed with use so that it no longer gives the crown caps a good crimp.

Brew on

This^^^
I started having the same problem a few months ago. It only took about 3 months to go pretty flat. I replaced the capper bell. No verdict yet on whether this will really solve it - just started using it. I'm using a bench capper. I was pressing down hard, and doing it twice. I'm guessing it was too much force and deformed the bell. Good luck.

 

[GHBWNY]

Yup^. When you cap a bottle, give it a twist to see if it's on tight. I have a newer, good-quality 2-wing capper, and find that even on the best bottling day, I get a couple of loose caps in the process. I pop them immediately and re-cap. No problems yet with beers that are well over a year old holding carb.

 

[DieTheVillain]

Your caps are leaking. If you are reusing twist-off cap bottles, that would cause the problem. If using regular bottles, you might want to replace the bell on your capper. It might have worn/deformed with use so that it no longer gives the crown caps a good crimp.

Brew on

I will look into this, i have a wing crapper that came with my starter brewing kit from a year ago. they are pretty inexpensive, should i just get a new one, i dont even know where to get the bell part from...

 

[doug293cz]

I will look into this, i have a wing crapper that came with my starter brewing kit from a year ago. they are pretty inexpensive, should i just get a new one, i dont even know where to get the bell part from...

I never had to replace a bell, so don't know where to get one. You might be right about it being easier to just get a new capper.

Brew on

 

[william_shakes_beer]

As others have alluded to, the bottle age is irrelevant. Assuming you're using fresh crimp caps of the correct size, older bottles should be fine. I did make the mistake of picking up champagne caps once, but the clerk at the checkout set me straight. Apparently the champagne caps are a smidge larger. Are you sure you're using the correct caps?

 

[ncbrewer]

This^^^
I started having the same problem a few months ago. It only took about 3 months to go pretty flat. I replaced the capper bell. No verdict yet on whether this will really solve it - just started using it. I'm using a bench capper. I was pressing down hard, and doing it twice. I'm guessing it was too much force and deformed the bell. Good luck.

DieTheVillian: I've had a chance to check on the results using the new capper bell, and it didn't help. Now I'm wondering about the caps. I bought mine from Williams Brewing (have bought hundreds from them with no problems in the past). Did you happen to buy yours from Williams?

 

[DieTheVillain]

DieTheVillian: I've had a chance to check on the results using the new capper bell, and it didn't help. Now I'm wondering about the caps. I bought mine from Williams Brewing (have bought hundreds from them with no problems in the past). Did you happen to buy yours from Williams?

Nope, got mine from my LHBS, checked my capper, bell is fine, caps won't twist and are not loose, just capped 6 cider bottles for a test batch.

 

[ncbrewer]

I figure the seal problem pretty much has to be from the capper, the caps, or the operator (I'm assuming you're not using twist-off bottles) . I have a few possible remedies that I'm trying:
- Replacing the capper bell didn't help.
- I've gone back and tightened all the screws on the capper in case alignment is the problem.
- Capped the latest batch using less force on the lever in case the seats are being badly distorted from too much force - no results yet
- Will Bottle some with a different capper (have a wing capper for this)
- Will use different caps for some

It's a simple problem - we can make it work.

 

[ncbrewer]

I might have fixed this. Backing off on the force on the lever (with a bench capper) seems to have taken care of the problem. I had started pressing on the lever twice, and with a lot of force - figured if a little is good, a lot is better. Started using just moderate force, stopping when I feel the capper bell slip down over the cap. One batch that was done this way still had good carbonation after 97 days. With the old method they would have been flat. I'll keep checking, but I think this has solved the problem.

I can also pass on that I had a problem with an old wing capper that was a hand-me-down. I think it had been dropped and got misaligned. I capped a few with a different wing capper recently, and they held carbonation also.

 

[jmitchell3]

Don't really know how to describe this, but I learned the hard way. Not all cappable bottles are the same...some have shorter neck ridges around the bottle lip. The standard red cappers don't seal well with those shorter ridges, and I've had bottles lose carb and not carb up at all. Here's a pic of a lagunitas bottle with the shorter neck ridge:

vs a standard neck ridge on the same short-neck bottle:

 

[GHBWNY]

I might have fixed this. Backing off on the force on the lever (with a bench capper) seems to have taken care of the problem. I had started pressing on the lever twice, and with a lot of force - figured if a little is good, a lot is better. Started using just moderate force, stopping when I feel the capper bell slip down over the cap. One batch that was done this way still had good carbonation after 97 days. With the old method they would have been flat. I'll keep checking, but I think this has solved the problem.

I can also pass on that I had a problem with an old wing capper that was a hand-me-down. I think it had been dropped and got misaligned. I capped a few with a different wing capper recently, and they held carbonation also.

Glad to hear you got it figured out. Nothing worse than running the entire gamut of brewing and bottling, only to end up with undrinkable beer! A malfunctioning piece of equipment --- regardless of being free or cheap --- isn't worth the price of a case (or two) of beer. I have a Red Baron wing capper that came as part of an equipment kit from BSG. Never a problem. After awhile, you get a feel for correct crimping pressure, though I don't feel this one allows over-crimping. And as far as it ever being misaligned, I don't think it's possible since the bell is cantilevered and self-positions on the crown.

 

[GHBWNY]

Don't really know how to describe this, but I learned the hard way. Not all cappable bottles are the same...some have shorter neck ridges around the bottle lip. The standard red cappers don't seal well with those shorter ridges, and I've had bottles lose carb and not carb up at all. Here's a pic of a lagunitas bottle with the shorter neck ridge:

vs a standard neck ridge on the same short-neck bottle:

The Lagunitas appears to be a twist-off.

 

[jmitchell3]

The Lagunitas appears to be a twist-off.

Possibly. The point is that there are non-twist offs that have the shorter neck ridge, and I've gotten bit by them.

 

[Firewalker11]

Like wine, if stored on the tops or on its side, any residual airing off will become blocked by the much higher viscosity beer. I will stack them if I am going to keep them around for a while.

 

[GHBWNY]

Possibly. The point is that there are non-twist offs that have the shorter neck ridge, and I've gotten bit by them.

I get that. Just wondered if part of the problem (as per pic) was inadvertently trying to cap a twist-off bottle.

I've had problems with my Red Baron when it came to re-using Corona bottles or 7 oz. clear champagne bottles. Hard to get the bell to release. On the flip side, ran into a loose cap prob with a particular brand of crown. The most cooperative ones I've used are Brewer's Best.

 

[jmitchell3]

I get that. Just wondered if part of the problem (as per pic) was inadvertently trying to cap a twist-off bottle.



I've had problems with my Red Baron when it came to re-using Corona bottles or 7 oz. clear champagne bottles. Hard to get the bell to release. On the flip side, ran into a loose cap prob with a particular brand of crown. The most cooperative ones I've used are Brewer's Best.

Yeah those cappers work with the most vanilla of pop top bottles and few of the niche variations.