Old ingredients

[OleBrewing]

I have used 3 yr old grain and 2 yr old homegrown hops after my brew hiatus. I havent noticed much decline in quality. I store grains in plastic barrel with snap ring in garage. Hops are vacuum sealed and frozen. Store em right and they will last. Also used 2 yr expired yeast bry 97 is a soldier.
Cheers.

 

[OleBrewing]

Homegrown Columbus. A little goes a long way

 

[bracconiere]

thanks for reminding me i needed to get my barley soaking to make malt for my next batch!

 

[IslandLizard]

That's definitely hopeful!

I have some 6 year old Munich and Vienna (unmilled). It smells and tastes fine. I'm gonna brew an Alt with it sometime soon, as a tack on to a normal brewday. Nothing to lose. I'll post an update.

 

[Franktalk]

My feeling is that grain and hops are viable for a long time, but fresher is better. Good beer can be made from ingredients that have been around awhile, but great beer is made with fresh ingredients.

 

[OleBrewing]

My feeling is that grain and hops are viable for a long time, but fresher is better. Good beer can be made from ingredients that have been around awhile, but great beer is made with fresh ingredients.

I do agree.fresh is always better. But with proper storage they will last a while. I wouldn't someone to throw out some ingredients th still could be used, but I would still use ones own discretion.

 

[smata67]

I use smell and taste. If either does not pass muster, they are not used. That said, I know for a fact some of the ingredients I have used are several years old and have made good beer nonetheless. In fact, I have never thrown anything out. Different story in the kitchen. I just tossed some upscale trendy chocolate macaroon granola crap that tasted old and was within its expiration date. Maybe the stuff we use to make beer is just plain hardy.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

I am concerned about the garage storage, even if in buckets. The hop photos. Hop rust? I've had hops frozen for several years and they are fine.

Garage is a varying environment.

Taste the malt. Taste similar to old crackers? If so, throw out.

Taste and smell the hops. OK? If so, then use.

 

[OleBrewing]

I am concerned about the garage storage, even if in buckets. The hop photos. Hop rust? I've had hops frozen for several years and they are fine.

Garage is a varying environment.

Taste the malt. Taste similar to old crackers? If so, throw out.

Taste and smell the hops. OK? If so, then use.

The grains are put in sealed 30gal ring sealed and gasket. And are very dry when put in. Normal grain bins aerate to keep a certain moisture. I am not worried about the 130deg temp swings ND gets.

Hop rust? That's just some Browning of the foliage. These hops smell the same as the day I package them. And with a couple pounds in the freezer it's a good thing.

Beer tastes great.

 

[Staticsouls]

I just made a pale ale with crystal pellet hops from 2015, tasted just fine. I must have gotten lucky because they were not vacuum sealed or refrigerated and had been in a tool box that was shipped over the Pacific and back. I was worried it would suck too!

 

[smata67]

The best IPA I have brewed most definitely used at least 3 year old hops (from a source of questionable parentage, can't imagine they were properly stored), pre-crushed base grain that was at least 2 years old most likely sitting in a hot warehouse for the duration, and yeast 3 months beyond its expiration date. The only fresh ingredient was the water!

 

[Brooothru]

The best IPA I have brewed most definitely used at least 3 year old hops (from a source of questionable parentage, can't imagine they were properly stored), pre-crushed base grain that was at least 2 years old most likely sitting in a hot warehouse for the duration, and yeast 3 months beyond its expiration date. The only fresh ingredient was the water!

Actually, astrophysicists would likely disagree. The hydrogen in H20 was the first atomic particle formed after the Big Bang. The oxygen that completes the water molecule was forged during the death throes of a star going supernova, at least 4.5 billion years ago (before our star (Sun) lit off and our solar system formed).

By those metrics, your water is by far the oldest of your ingredients .

Brooo Brother

 

[dwhite60]

Actually, astrophysicists would likely disagree. The hydrogen in H20 was the first atomic particle formed after the Big Bang. The oxygen that completes the water molecule was forged during the death throes of a star going supernova, at least 4.5 billion years ago (before our star (Sun) lit off and our solar system formed).

By those metrics, your water is by far the oldest of your ingredients .

Brooo Brother

Some people........

I love it!

And some of that water you're using has possibly been beer before.......


All the Best,
D. White

 

[smata67]

Been awhile since I took Astro 101, but water is actually a new substance created by reverse hydrolysis during the formation of the Earth. Like hydrogen and oxygen and oxygen hooking up via lightning storms and such when the planet was covered in oceans and huge crashing waves. Hops, grains, and yeast on the other hand are made up of elements from deep in the Universe, going way back, like before the Bible. Says so right there, somewhere in the back, you just have to look for it. No matter how you cut it, water is the freshest ingredient in any beer brewed. Four billion years old, tops.

 

[Jayjay1976]

If I ever end up with a bunch of old grain, I'm going to brew an RIS with it, doubt the stale flavors will come through all the dark roast and at a high gravity. I'll toss my old hops in there too. A bitter, old, stale bastard of a Russian stout. It'll be epic. I'll call it Rootin' Tootin' Putin

 

[Brooothru]

Been awhile since I took Astro 101, but water is actually a new substance created by reverse hydrolysis during the formation of the Earth. Like hydrogen and oxygen and oxygen hooking up via lightning storms and such when the planet was covered in oceans and huge crashing waves. Hops, grains, and yeast on the other hand are made up of elements from deep in the Universe, going way back, like before the Bible. Says so right there, somewhere in the back, you just have to look for it. No matter how you cut it, water is the freshest ingredient in any beer brewed. Four billion years old, tops.

I guess we're splitting hairs (well, actually atoms). The first atom was hydrogen. When the first stars 'lit off' into a fusion reaction, helium was formed. Then as stars exhausted their hydrogen fuel and went supernova, increasingly heavier elements were produced and blasted and disbursed throughout the heavens. That's been ongoing for 13.8 billion years, give or take.

Water is hydrogen (element "1") and oxygen (element "8") while the hydrocarbons that make up hops and grains are largely comprised of hydrogen (element "1") and carbon (element "6"), so in that cursory way you are quite correct.

Of course, organic chemistry is much more complex. The advent of the precursors for plant lifeforms (presumably throughout the universe) formed in the primordial soup in (wait for it.....) WATER! So by that account water came first. We'll never know for sure since none of us were there.

That leaves us with the age old question, "Which came first, the chicken or the wort, er, egg." I think I'll ponder that paradox over a couple of beers.

Brooo Brother

 

[brewkinger]

This was kind of fortuitous thread to find.
A took over a 2 yr hiatus in my brewing and this very week broke out the equipment to brew an AG batch with grain and hops that are about the same age.

In the end, the only expectation I have is that I will make some beer. I have some fresh DME to boost the OG if need be.

If it is not my best work, then I will have currency to barter for TP in the COVIDocalypse.

 

[brewkinger]

Some people........

And some of that water you're using has possibly been beer before.......

All the Best,
D. White

And using the same logic, has possibly been urine before...........

 

[dwhite60]

And using the same logic, has possibly been urine before...........

I really didn't want to go there but you are correct!

All the Best,
D. White

 

[Jayjay1976]

I really didn't want to go there but you are correct!

All the Best,
D. White

A distinction without a difference...

 

[Jayjay1976]

If I ever end up with a bunch of old grain, I'm going to brew an RIS with it, doubt the stale flavors will come through all the dark roast and at a high gravity. I'll toss my old hops in there too. A bitter, old, stale bastard of a Russian stout. It'll be epic. I'll call it Rootin' Tootin' Putin

Or maybe I'll call it Putin' on the RIS.

 

[smata67]

We all can agree that the last bottle of any batch is usually the best, so why not just use old grain, hops, yeast, and water and get a head start on the whole aging process?

 

[Jayjay1976]

We all can agree that the last bottle of any batch is usually the best, so why not just use old grain, hops, yeast, and water and get a head start on the whole aging process?

So let's trade sweet old gran with all of her wisdom and love for an old rotten egg and a crusty gym sock, eh? Same thing?

 

[dochawk]

Y'rr all pikers.

Pikers. I say/

Two years, three years, five years.

Bah.

We'll dee how mine comes out from this Sunday.

The grain has been stored airtight since, I think, Fall 2000, and the hops are a couple of years newer, airtight in the freezer . . .

But I'll pick up a fresh packet of yeast . . .

 

[IslandLizard]

The grain has been stored airtight since, I think, Fall 2000,

Before jumping in on Sunday, you could mill a pound (or a few) and do a mini mash in a pot in the kitchen.
Stick it in a 150F pre-warmed but turned off oven for an hour (or 90'), to see if it still has enough diastatic power to convert.

You should expect around 1.036 per pound per gallon with fresh malt. See how it compares.

It also gives you a preview of the flavor profile.

While you're testing, give one of those bags of hops you intend to use a good whiff. If they're cheesy, better get some fresh ones. Using 15 year-old hops is not out of the question, I have some that are 8 years old and are fine (pellets, vacuum packed and frozen).