Irish Stout Ode To Arthur, Irish Stout (Guinness Clone)

[thorHB]

I used steeped barley and it's black as midnight and almost no roast flavor

thanks for the advice. I might try that. here is a picture of what I'm dealing with. Should probably just leave it alone because it tastes good but i was really hoping for that midnight black guinness look.

 

[TheMadKing]

thanks for the advice. I might try that. here is a picture of what I'm dealing with. Should probably just leave it alone because it tastes good but i was really hoping for that midnight black guinness look.

I would steep 1/2 lb of roasted barley in cold water for 48 hours or so, then strain it, boil it, and dump it in. It might kick off fermentation again through

 

[youngdh]

So I read BierMuncher's third post on this thread, "I'd imagine that changing the grains ratio from 65% Pale, 25% Flaked Barley and 10% Roasted Barley to 70%, 25%, 5% would tame down and mellow the flavor", and decided to try just that. I put it into beersmith and my SRM was low. I heard on a podcast that you can take a coffee grinder to some chocolate malt and then add that to the top of your grain bed at the end of your mash and recirculate over the top of it to gain color without the flavor from the chocolate. Just kegged this beer last night. Taste is spot on, even this young, however the color is brown. Suspended yeast may be causing some of this however I am doubting it will darken up much more that it is now. I have read on other threads that using briess roasted barley, which I did, isn't the greatest for color. I am contemplating adding steeped roasted barley or some other dark specialty grain to the keg. Any suggestions or advice? I will try to get a picture up of my brown guinness. Here is my grist. The chocolate malt was utilized as described above.

6 lbs 4.8 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) 65.8 %
2 lbs 4.0 oz Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) 23.5 %
7.2 oz Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) 4.7 %
7.2 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) 4.7 %
2.0 oz Acid Malt (3.0 SRM) 1.3 %

My recipe I've evolved to get the dark color without the harsh bitter roast and just enough Guinness "twang" is as follows:

67.1% Maris Otter
25% Flaked Barley
4.1% Roasted Barley
2.8% Dehusked Carafe III
1% Acid Malt

Everything goes in at the beginning of the mash. No late mash addition of the dark grains or doing a "tea". The Dehusked carafe III was the key to retaining dark color of beer w/o harsh roast flavor. The acid malt is in lieu of trying to sour beer to add to boil for the twang.

I'm about to bottle batch 5 of this recipe and just finished a bottle from my 4th batch. It is spot on for flavor IMO .

 

[Toppers15]

I have 5gal of this sitting in my new house in my "brewery" at around 53deg. Heat is being installed this week. Any issues with this - should I move it up to the living room? note: this is going on 15 days in secondary.

 

[TheMadKing]

Since I'm talking to myself, I might as well keep updating on my progress with the souring

I transferred to a vessel with zero headspace just now. I didn't realize that you only want lactobacillis' anaerobic fermentation products so the less headspace the better. During the transfer I tasted this mess and its actually not bad. There's absolutely zero acetic taste and its nicely tart. I'll just let it keep going for a few more days before I pasteurize and dump it in the fermentor

I ended up adding less than 3% of the soured beer back in. It's easy to over do it.

I pulled a 100 mL sample and added measured amounts of soured beer to taste then I just scaled up to the entire batch. I think I still over did it a little by adding 16 oz to the entire 5 gallons. I would do 10-12 oz next time. It's not bad, just very slightly more sour than I think it should be.

I just kegged it and now it's conditioning until St Paddy's day. This is a very good beer and the souring process has been fun and new.

 

[mattsearle]

Apologies if this has been asked already, but is the colour correct in the recipe? It says 23 SRM, which can't be right for a stout? I just want to know what SRM I should be aiming for on beersmith?

 

[TheMadKing]

Apologies if this has been asked already, but is the colour correct in the recipe? It says 23 SRM, which can't be right for a stout? I just want to know what SRM I should be aiming for on beersmith?

I would say 30+.. Mine came out in the 40's because I used a ton of cold steeped roasted barley. I would reduce the amount to 1.5lb in 1 gallon of water for 48 hours then add it to the end of the boil.

If you aren't cold steeping, make sure you are using 500L roasted barley, or add some debittered black malt to increase the color without the roast flavor

 

[mattsearle]

I would say 30+.. Mine came out in the 40's because I used a ton of cold steeped roasted barley. I would reduce the amount to 1.5lb in 1 gallon of water for 48 hours then add it to the end of the boil.

If you aren't cold steeping, make sure you are using 500L roasted barley, or add some debittered black malt to increase the color without the roast flavor

Thanks for that, my recipe is coming out at about 35 at the moment so will roll with it.

 

[Toppers15]

Shout-out to BM and all the friendly brewers who commented on my noob questions. Just bottled this and my god the sample tasted like heaven. Not sure how long I'll be able to wait to crack the first one.

Cheers!

 

[Toppers15]

Happy St. Paddy's! I bottled 5 gallons of this liquid heaven 2 weeks ago and going to crack one tonight in the name of... science? Expecting a harsher version of the final product but I just can't wait any longer - the measuring sample was delicious warm and flat 2 weeks ago. Cheers!

 

[Snicklefritz]

So I had my first of these today. Brewed 10 gallons and serving it on nitro. It is VERY close to Guinness. A bit roastier (in my opinion) but I actually like that better!

Thanks for the great recipe!

 

[Redtab78]

would there be any issues if I brewed this and left in primary for 10 days vice the 7 in OP, and then kegged for conditioning for a few months and skipped the secondary all together? Or maybe 14 days in primary?? I have 15 days until I leave for a long vacation, and would like to brew this and let sit while im gone, however I don't have the time for the 7 days in primary, then 14 days secondary, then keg....my other option would be brew, 7 days in primary, then let sit in secondary for almost 30 days, then keg for an additional few months....

need a little guidance for this to turn out the best.

 

[Redtab78]

would there be any issues if I brewed this and left in primary for 10 days vice the 7 in OP, and then kegged for conditioning for a few months and skipped the secondary all together? Or maybe 14 days in primary?? I have 15 days until I leave for a long vacation, and would like to brew this and let sit while im gone, however I don't have the time for the 7 days in primary, then 14 days secondary, then keg....my other option would be brew, 7 days in primary, then let sit in secondary for almost 30 days, then keg for an additional few months....

need a little guidance for this to turn out the best.

Just left my LHBS with all my ingredients had to change from the flaked barley to the flaked oats as they were out of the barley. Also, while I was there, they had an "Irish stout 2-row" which was essentially just a standard 2-row but grown and shipped in from Ireland....I didn't use that for my base malt as they had the UK 2-row from the original recipie, but I was wondering in anyone here has heard of this, or used it before? I think the name was McKinley's or something like that??

 

[Redtab78]

Here she is chugging away...that yeast really took off and went to town!!

Question tho, mine looks really brown and less black like I expected from a stout (even added .25# of chocolate at mash)...I suppose it's just the yeast in there putting in some work...my starter was huge just like bm suggeated, and it started bubbling within 2 hours after pitching at 85 degrees

It smells absolutely amazing tho and the initial taste was very good!! Very roastey just like I wanted...thank you again BM!!

 

[Redtab78]

Just took a 3rd place win with this

 

[sikkingj]

Congrats on the medal!

 

[Aa760]

I've been sub'd to this thread for years now, wanting to brew this version of my favorite style. Color seems light at 23 SRM. BJCP SRM is 25-40. I don't want a dark brown stout. Anybody have feedback about additions to darken it and retain its intended flavor profile? I have 8 ounces of debittered carafa-III to bring color to an SRM of 33. Comments, feedback or suggestions about this?

 

[bonecitybrewco]

I've been sub'd to this thread for years now, wanting to brew this version of my favorite style. Color seems light at 23 SRM. BJCP SRM is 25-40. I don't want a dark brown stout. Anybody have feedback about additions to darken it and retain its intended flavor profile? I have 8 ounces of debittered carafa-III to bring color to an SRM of 33. Comments, feedback or suggestions about this?

Just as an aside, BM originally formulated this with Briess Roasted Barley which is approximately 300 SRM vs the standard SRM of 500-600 that most of us know roasted barley to be. Personally, I would just make sure you use a 500+ SRM roasted barley and you'll be fine. For example, when I input the recipe with a UK roasted barley it shows an SRM of ~36 vs the original 23.

Another option is to use a combination of roasted barley and debittered carafa III if you find the original too roasty for a direct 100% spot-on Guinness clone(as some have mentioned).



All that to say, if you're just looking for a wicked dry Irish stout, I wouldn't worry about it at all and just use roasted barley.

 

[JETDOG07]

What temperature is this mashed at?

 

[owmatooth]

What temperature is this mashed at?

OP uses a longer mash to have a well attenuated and thus drier stout. The recommendation was 150-152 for 75-90 min.

 

[Burndog]

Questions... This is only my second all grain and using BIAB I adjusted the two row to offset the lower efficiency. Did a 5 gallon batch , halving the original 10 gal recipe. I added 2 additional lbs of two row.

Now in review, would I need to "up" all the grains to properly counter the lower efficiency of BIAB?

It gets worse... I also added the hops at the end, mistaking the 60 minute mark in reverse ( I know this but just made a mistake). Is there any way to sort the bittering, post cartboy?

Or should this one be dumped and redone? OG was only 1.32 so concerned in general and thinking BIAB might have to be reconsidered as I like the idea of following recipes for all grain.

And lastly, I usually brew IPAs. Should this be fermented like a Lager? I'm fermenting at 68 degrees at this point (just brewed today).

 

[Yooper]

Questions... This is only my second all grain and using BIAB I adjusted the two row to offset the lower efficiency. Did a 5 gallon batch , halving the original 10 gal recipe. I added 2 additional lbs of two row.

Now in review, would I need to "up" all the grains to properly counter the lower efficiency of BIAB?

It gets worse... I also added the hops at the end, mistaking the 60 minute mark in reverse ( I know this but just made a mistake). Is there any way to sort the bittering, post cartboy?

Or should this one be dumped and redone? OG was only 1.32 so concerned in general and thinking BIAB might have to be reconsidered as I like the idea of following recipes for all grain.

And lastly, I usually brew IPAs. Should this be fermented like a Lager? I'm fermenting at 68 degrees at this point (just brewed today).

You might be surprised- it might turn out better than you think and then you'll spend a year trying to replicate it. In this case, the lower OG of 1.032 might work for you, since you're so low on bittering. Consider it a "British mild", with a low OG and low ABV and pretend you intended to make a milk all along. It might be great!

About fermentation temperature- that's yeast strain dependent. If you've chosen an English strain, I'd try to keep it at 66 degrees or so, to minimize excess fruity esters. If it's dry S04, I'd keep it even lower, like 62 if possible, because the esters from that yeast get sort of weird, but even 66 would be ok. If it's a yeast strain like S05, fermentation temperature of 68 would be fine.

Which strain are you using? Many of us have used a ton of different strains and have our preferences and we could give you more specific ideas.

 

[Burndog]

Thanks for the reply Yooper.

Using WLP004 @ 68f and surprised to see so little action this morning. I'm used to IPAs that usually take off quite rapidly and have a nice Krausen by the next day. But this is the first time in a mini fridge where I can manage the temps. Hopefully the lack of light is not an issue?

**** Fermentation eventually started 36 hours later ****

 

[dirkjk]

Brewed this about 4 weeks ago. Kegged it after 3 weeks and didn't taste good at all. Now at 4 it's drinkable but very bland. I think it's about right on the sour notes but could use a touch of roasty goodness. Hoping a few more weeks helps. Wish I had a nitro setup for that creamy foaming head. Will try the food syringe trick when I can find one.

 

[rtstrider]

Picking up the grains and such today! Hoping to brew this sometime next week My LHBS only has Briess roasted barley which has a lovibond of 300 per the Briess site. I'm going to sub that out for Briess black barley which has a lovibond of 500 and should hopefully get me in the range of that stout color. I read previously someone said mash at 150-152 for 75-90 minutes. I'm going to try mashing at 150 for 90 minutes to dry this out a bit. Will be using wyeast 1084 (no starter as this is a 5 gallon batch). If this recipe turns out well may try subbing the 2 row with Maris Otter. Happy brewing everyone!

Edit: My LHBS did not have 1084 but recommended Wyeast 1335 so that's what I got

 

[rtstrider]

Finished brewing this around 1230 this morning. Another substitution was the LHBS gave me pale ale malt instead of 2 row. Don't think that'll be a huge deal breaker. I will say I was worried at first because the wort looked like light coffee with creamer. Once the proteins dropped out at the end of the cold break the color was spot on! So seems like using the black barley made a difference here. I had read of others where the stout was turning out more brown than black and I can say this looks black! It's the wife's christmas present so I hope it turns out well!

 

[bonecitybrewco]

Finished brewing this around 1230 this morning. Another substitution was the LHBS gave me pale ale malt instead of 2 row. Don't think that'll be a huge deal breaker. I will say I was worried at first because the wort looked like light coffee with creamer. Once the proteins dropped out at the end of the cold break the color was spot on! So seems like using the black barley made a difference here. I had read of others where the stout was turning out more brown than black and I can say this looks black! It's the wife's christmas present so I hope it turns out well!

Those that were having colour issues were using roasted barley that was not as high in L as they thought. Using Paul's or other UK is likely to be over 400 for sure and therefore corrects that issue.

 

[ehk089]

Named for Arthur Guinness and his silky smooth contribution to the world.

I have a few extra cornies on the way to the house so I'm going to try and get two of these filled and set aside. I'd love to let these guys condition for 3-4 months before tapping them next fall. I'm not sure that's gonna happen though...

Many thanks to Dude (and others), whose guidance helped me keep this Guinness Clone true to it's simple roots...



*******
Batch Size: 10.00 gal
Boil Size: 12.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.044 SG
Estimated Color: 23.8 SRM
View attachment 1561
Estimated IBU: 29.6 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
11.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) 63.8 %
4.25 lb Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) 24.6 %
1.75 lb Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) 10.1 %
0.25 lb Acid Malt (3.0 SRM) 1.4 %

3.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (60 min) Hops 31.2 IBU

1 Pkgs Irish Ale Yeast (WLP004)
------------
Mash Schedule: Single Infusion Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 17.25 lb

Oh...and this just in for those wondering how this would stack up against other stout recipes:

Im new to AG and am having trouble grasping mash and sparge water volumes for batch sparge. When I plugged this into beer smith, it recommended a 2 step sparge, but the first few 5 gal recipes I made only required a 1 step (of essentially equal value to the original mash volume). Is the second sparge required due to the water to grist ratio, or could I do a 6 gal mash and single 6 gallon sparge and achieve the same results @BierMuncher ?

 

[tgmartin000]

Im new to AG and am having trouble grasping mash and sparge water volumes for batch sparge. When I plugged this into beer smith, it recommended a 2 step sparge, but the first few 5 gal recipes I made only required a 1 step (of essentially equal value to the original mash volume). Is the second sparge required due to the water to grist ratio, or could I do a 6 gal mash and single 6 gallon sparge and achieve the same results @BierMuncher ?

Beersmith can be kinda weird about sparge volumes sometimes. A single batch with the total required volume from both calculated sparges is fine.

 

[Punx Clever]

Brewed this one today. Started off by collecting RO water to build up a Wicklow Mountain water profile.

Made sure to get Black Barley (500L) instead of roasted (300L).

Mashed for 90 at 150*, adding in the black barley for the last 15 minutes. Water additions shown above reflect that.

Boiled for 60. Cooled to 75 and whirlpooled 5 minutes, then let it settle for 5 min.

Put into the fermenter with a 1200 ml starter of Wyeast 1084 Irish Ale. Fermenting at 65*.

Planned on 85% efficiency, so I dropped the two row down to 10lbs. Ended up with 89% (11.5 gal at 1.045) . Not bad.

Going to enter it into an Irish Beer competition next month. We'll see how it goes!

 

[Shenanigans]

Brewed this one today. Started off by collecting RO water to build up a Wicklow Mountain water profile.

Made sure to get Black Barley (500L) instead of roasted (300L).

Mashed for 90 at 150*, adding in the black barley for the last 15 minutes. Water additions shown above reflect that.

Boiled for 60. Cooled to 75 and whirlpooled 5 minutes, then let it settle for 5 min.

Put into the fermenter with a 1200 ml starter of Wyeast 1084 Irish Ale. Fermenting at 65*.

Planned on 85% efficiency, so I dropped the two row down to 10lbs. Ended up with 89% (11.5 gal at 1.045) . Not bad.

Going to enter it into an Irish Beer competition next month. We'll see how it goes!

Nice report. I must download bruin water. Had to smile when I saw a Wicklow mountain water profile. Was born and grew up about 30 mins from the Wicklow border. From Wexford of course

 

[Punx Clever]

Beer has hit terminal gravity. It's going into a competition, so I won't be rushing putting it into the kegs... let the yeast clean up anything. Came down to 1.008. AND, the sample is a dead ringer for Guinness. Couldn't be happier. There really is something to this water chemistry stuff...

Please excuse the cloudiness, it hasn't cold crashed or had gelatin yet.

 

[PeteSeattle]

Here’s hoping the luck of the Irish will be on you’re side @Punx Clever.

This is the inspiration I need, folks. It’s interesting to see the variations since the OP. I can’t wait to dive into my version. I’m trying to pin down a certain IPA (Seattle here, lol) and this will be my next project but probably not in time for St. Paddy’s day. Sláinte!

 

[uSlackr]

Im new to AG and am having trouble grasping mash and sparge water volumes for batch sparge. When I plugged this into beer smith, it recommended a 2 step sparge, but the first few 5 gal recipes I made only required a 1 step (of essentially equal value to the original mash volume). Is the second sparge required due to the water to grist ratio, or could I do a 6 gal mash and single 6 gallon sparge and achieve the same results @BierMuncher ?

You can change the number of sparge steps. Not sure why it defaults to 2.

 

[Punx Clever]

2.5 weeks out from brew day. With a little burst carbonation this one has hit the glass. Pretty solid impression of a Guinness... not quite the same without the nitro pour, but it's damn close and I'm happy with it.

Bottled two 12oz bottles from the keg today to put into a local competition. Should do pretty good.

 

[ehk089]

brewed a 10 gal batch to split with a buddy ~3 weeks ago, been in keg a few days, conditioning til st pat comes.....pretty excited

 

[PeteSeattle]

Best of luck @Punx Clever

 

[PADave]

This is going to be my next brew. What water chemistry are you all using? I use distilled water to brew. I found this somewhere and have it in my notes for this brew.

"The water at the St James Gate brewery is RO quality water that runs off the Wicklow Mountains. Add calcium chloride to bring the calcium to about 50 ppm and then mash only the pale malt and the barley with the roast barley reserved. Add the roast barley with about 10 minutes left in the mash. The mash pH is at the normal range during most of the mash, but driven low with the roast malt addition. The combo of roast with low pH is the secret to a dry Irish stout."

So just to be clear, I only need to add calcium chloride to my mash water and nothing else? I plan on doing the late addition with the roast barley. Also going to add a couple ounces of Blackprinz to to raise the SRM.

 

[youngdh]

This is going to be my next brew. What water chemistry are you all using? I use distilled water to brew. I found this somewhere and have it in my notes for this brew.

"The water at the St James Gate brewery is RO quality water that runs off the Wicklow Mountains. Add calcium chloride to bring the calcium to about 50 ppm and then mash only the pale malt and the barley with the roast barley reserved. Add the roast barley with about 10 minutes left in the mash. The mash pH is at the normal range during most of the mash, but driven low with the roast malt addition. The combo of roast with low pH is the secret to a dry Irish stout."

So just to be clear, I only need to add calcium chloride to my mash water and nothing else? I plan on doing the late addition with the roast barley. Also going to add a couple ounces of Blackprinz to to raise the SRM.

I follow the advice from an article in the Nov/Dec 2013 Zymurgy's Brewing Water Series for Ireland by Martin Brungard of the following target profile for dry Irish stouts: Ca:18 Mg:2 Na:13 SO4:22 Cl:20 HCO3:35. I also target a mash pH of 5.2.

 

[jlinz]

Just tapped this recipe. Tastes great, even after less than a week in the keg. I don’t know about it being a guiness replica, because guiness has that minerL taste from the water, but as a nice dry stout recipe, I wouldn’t change a thing.