Not hitting full 5 gallons, why?

[starscream]

So im relatively new to brewing and jumped right into all grain brewing. this is my 4th overall brew and i keep running into the same problem, not hitting the full 5 gallons in my fermenter. This last time, me and the lady brewed a vienna lager. 9.5 lbs of total grain. my strike water was 3.5 gallons and i batch sparged with 3 gallons. using the 1.5qts per/lb of grain for strike and 1.25qts/lb of grain for sparge. looking like i would have 6.5 gallons of wort, with an hours boil time i figured id lose 1-1.5 gallons giving me the perfect 5 gallons. well i only ended up with roughly 4.25 gallons. very little mush in the kettle, maybe a qt of wort. so why is this? am i really losing almost a gallon to the grain? am i boiling to high? i have a nice rolling boil the entire time with no boil over.

I also came out with a OG of 1.064. so i boiled water and added to the fermenter to hit 5 gallons and dropped the OG to 1.046. maybe i shouldnt have? I was thinking of switchin to fly sparging to help with hitting the 5 gallon marker. Any insight is greatly appreciated.

 

[PRE66_6TART]

The grain will absorb a bunch of water. I BIAB and I lose almost a gallon to grain absorption, and you will likely lose more than me since your mash tun will retain more water than my bag. If you started with 6.5 gallons and ended up 0.75 short just use 7.25 next time. If you want to actually bottle 5 gallons you will need even more since you will lose some to trub in the fermenter also. Just add the extra water to your sparge water. The water to grain ratio of the sparge doesn't really matter.

I start with 8 gallons of water to end up with 5 gallons of beer in bottles.

 

[carton132]

Have you tested your boil rate on your system? I have an 8 gallon pot that is fairly wide and evaporates 2 gallons of water an hour.

Have you also tested how much dead space is in your mash tun? I've seen setups that will leave a half gallon of wort in the tun after draining, and the same cooler with different equipment inside that only leaves 8 ounces.

 

[VikingChrisColby]

Your grain will absorb some water. Figures on this range from 0.10 to 0.19 gallons per pound of grain. It's always a good idea to heat more sparge water than you need, in case your pre-boil kettle volume is low.
If you calibrate a dipstick to your kettle, you can measure your boil off rate. For many homebrewers, it's between 1 and 1.5 gallons per hour. (Rates outside of this range aren't uncommon, though. It depends on the heat your burner gives off and the geometry of your kettle.)
And if worse comes to worse, just add some water to your fermenter, as you did. (BTW, you probably didn't need to boil it. Municipal tap water shouldn't have a level of contamination that would bother wort that is just about to be pitched with yeast.) If you think you're going to be low on volume, adding the water to your kettle prior to knockout is also an option (especially if you are nervous about your possible contaminants in your water).

Here's an article that might help you plan your batch sparge brews. Good luck!

http://beerandwinejournal.com/batch-sparge-wort-collection/


Chris Colby
Editor
beerandwinejournal.com

 

[mlakota]

http://www.brew365.com/mash_sparge_water_calculator.php

I always run my numbers through this to get mash and sparge water amounts. Do a test to find your boil off rate and enter the values for batch size, grain bill, boil length, etc. to find out where to start.

Ive found most of the loss values to be fine for my system, but slight tinkering should get you what you need.

Also, many people aim for 6 gallons post boil, 5.5 into fermenter, and 5 into keg/bottle to account for trub loss, etc. Maybe try changing to something similar.

 

[Doctor_M]

http://www.brew365.com/mash_sparge_water_calculator.php

I always run my numbers through this to get mash and sparge water amounts. Do a test to find your boil off rate and enter the values for batch size, grain bill, boil length, etc. to find out where to start.

Ive found most of the loss values to be fine for my system, but slight tinkering should get you what you need.

Also, many people aim for 6 gallons post boil, 5.5 into fermenter, and 5 into keg/bottle to account for trub loss, etc. Maybe try changing to something similar.

Thanks for the link

 

[BrewerinBR]

These calculations are very specific to the equipment your brewing on and there is a lot we do not know. On my system using my grain mill 9.5 lbs of grain and a total of 6.5 gallons of water would result in less than 5 gallons going into the boil kettle. For me grain absorption and dead space are .5qts per pound of grain or 4.75 quarts plus 2 quarts dead space for a total of 6.75 quarts or 1.68 gallons. On my system I would expect to collect about 4 3/4 gallons of wort using 9.5. lbs of grain and 6.5 gallons of water. So to get 5 gallons into the fermentor I increase the water in both mash and sparge and I increase the grain used to keep the desired pre-boil gravity according to style.

So I would suggest measuring exactly your dead space in the mash tun if your BIAB then it is possible your grain absorption is higher than you think. Finer crushed grain will absorb more water than coarser crushed grain. So that is another item to look at. For it was brew and document and measure and brew and document and measure until I dialed in my calculations to mach my results. I can now predict with a good deal of accuracy the final quantity and FG of my brewing efforts.

 

[duboman]

Fill your tun with water and drain, measure what's left
Fill your kettle with water and drain, measure what's left
Boil a fixed amount of water for an hour and measure what's left
Grain will absorb .12 gallons per pound
Multiply your grain pounds by 1.5 ( or whatever strike you choose) to determine mash volume
Subtract the .12/lb to calculate what your first runnings will be
Determine your preboil volume based upon losses and batch size.
Pre boil volume minus first runnings equal your required sparge volume

Lots of math and a little time to dial things in and it should work out


Sent from the Commune

 

[beergolf]

No need for a lot of math.. Measure the first runnings. Then just add enough sparge water to get you to the pre boil volume. For example, if you need 7 gallons to acount for a 1.5 gallon boil off to get 5.5 gallons for a 5 gallon batch.If your first volume is 3 gallons. The grain absorbtion is already covered , and the dead space is already covered. So you need to add 4 gallons of sparge to get your volume. Easy

 

[wilserbrewer]

So im relatively new to brewing and jumped right into all grain brewing. this is my 4th overall brew and i keep running into the same problem, not hitting the full 5 gallons in my fermenter. .

Simply put, you are not using enough water in your process. Rather than sparging with a predetermined amount, try sparging to a preboil volume.

RDWHWHB, topping up with boiled water is not such a bad thing...just try and learn from your last brew and make adjustments to get more favorable results. If your are 3/4 of a gallong short on a consistent basis, well you need to add that much more water to your process.

cheers!

 

[starscream]

wow i didnt realize that it could become so complex. thanks for the input and the links. guess im just going to have to keep on brewing to dial everything in more!

 

[imnothardcore]

Hey I am new as well.

if you use an app like ibrewmaster it gives you what your pre boil volume should be and also, based on your recipe, it gives you what your gravity readings should be at various stages.

Its been a great checkup for me as I learn as well. Its also nice because it gives a point of reference to understand where these numbers come from and why they are important.

hope that helps, one newbie to another

 

[Esmitee]

When I 1st started out All Grain. I was scared and very unsure...of a lot of things. So I got beersmith, Found that very confusing for quite a few batches. The amounts BS would tell me to use, I thought were way to much, so I just didnt use the numbers they said. Reason being, BS had numbers like trub left in boil Kettle 1 gal, boil off rate @ 2 gal an hour, mash Tun loss 1/2 gal ,loss from fermentor 3 quarts etc. cooling shrinkage 4% . So doing it my way, I would end my boil and have 5 gals.in the kettle,cool, Next drain the BK into carboy by leaving some crap in the kettle (AHH Not that much)
, after fermentation syphion into keg. Leave crap in bottom of carboy. (Ahh Not that Much) Assumed the keg was a full "5 Gallons"...... I was ripping my self off. The I set out to measure all of these "NOT TO MUCH losses) I was so surprised at how much volume each one was, and how much they all added up to! Moral of the story, MEASURE EVERYTHING !

 

[natural]

I've been having these issues as well, but for me it's a simple answer. I'm boiling more water off then i'm anticipating. I'm looking for 1gallon of boil off but i'm getting 1.5-2. I have a line marked in my boil kettle so I make sure I know how much water is going into it. After two batches i've come out at 5 gallons instead of 5.5. Especially after racking it gets even lower.

Easy fix! Sparge with more water and adjust!

 

[morbster]

This may be a stupid question, but what do you use to measure the various volumes? e.g. 0.75 gallons of trub, cooling shrinkage, etc.

 

[blizzard]

One other thing to consider - are you using a bucket with those pre-drawn on markings as a fermentor? Those are always wrong.

 

[tootal]

Don't worry, relax, have a home brew! I'm with the "let's not get so technical" group. The answer is to learn your system. I agree with those who said to mark you kettle and boil for how ever long you boil. Measure what's left. If shy of your desires then how much? Now add that to your kettle that is up to your mark again and make a new mark. All done.

We don't measure any water while brewing. We bring the water in from under the false bottom and slowly add the malt as the water rises. When we have about an inch above the grain bed we're done.

We have lots of sparge water and fly sparge until we hit the mark in the kettle. We are consistantly at 86% efficiency in the fermenter. What's left in the mash is usually tasteless unless it's a really big beer!

 

[TerapinChef]

Also if you are somewhere cold this time of year, your evaporation rate is likely slightly higher, I believe due to the extremely dry air. And you're probably boiling too hard, most people starting out too. Shoot for a gently rolling boil, not a violent one!