Great Noob story. between my brew partner and I, I have sort of been the brains behind the brewing process. I sent him to the LHBS with a lager recipe to make our first lager. He also bought grains to make an EPA. Great, but he forgot which bag he put which grains in. So we very well could have made lager with Pale Ale Malt and an ale with Pilsner Malt. We brewed anway, but say we did mix the bags up, any issues with that or might we have tasty beer either way? Thanks guys!
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Vance71975
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terrapinj
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may want to do a 90min boil for both just to make sure you remove all DMS from the pilsner malt
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The 90min boil for the pilsen malt would be the only concern. I once was brewing and though, man these stout runnings are super light! So I had an oatmeal pale ale (added the oats on my own when doughing in from a separate package) and an oatless stout.
drummerguysteve
Well-Known Member
How'd the oatmeal pale ale come out? I think (aside from haze) that it would go well in a pale.
asterix404
Well-Known Member
Wait... why 90min boil? I am going to use pilsner malt in a beer this weekend.
erikpete18
Well-Known Member
Pilsner malt has more DMS precursors (think creamed corn) that get turned into DMS during the mash. However, they're really pretty volatile, so you can boil them out, its just that it takes a little longer to boil them away. I've done small amounts of pilsner malt with a 60 min boil, but if that is the bulk of your grain bill I'd probably suggest playing it safe and boil for 90 min. to make sure you get rid of all of that DMS.
asterix404
Well-Known Member
Oh wow! Hey thanks for that... I am doing a berliner weisse, and I am using 3# of pils and 3# of wheat, I will do a 90min boil also to mimic the effects of a decoction mash since honestly from what I have read, they give almost the same results. Typically this wouldn't be a problem since I get about 7+G of wort so I boil for several hours anyway, but this one I am only getting 4.5g and I figured it would be an easy brew day. Oh well... 90min is still not too long.
Thanks so much, I knew there was a reason I still read almost all of the posts.
Thanks so much, I knew there was a reason I still read almost all of the posts.
drummerguysteve
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't go for "several hours" either. If you're getting too much wort in order to get the proper extract, use more grains (or refine your process) and hit your pre-boil volumes appropriately.
Too long of a boil will give you melanoidins and caramelization that is way over the top. You may also be getting tannins from oversparging. Try compensating for your efficiency with more grains, and compare it to your other batches. I think you'll like the taste more.
Too long of a boil will give you melanoidins and caramelization that is way over the top. You may also be getting tannins from oversparging. Try compensating for your efficiency with more grains, and compare it to your other batches. I think you'll like the taste more.
asterix404
Well-Known Member
I agree completely, the problem is when I brew with more than 16 pounds of grain. I use about 5g strike and 5g sparge to get about 7.5g - 8.5g wort. Getting that down to 5.5g takes a lot of boiling. I then get into the problem of requiring the 1-1.25qt pp for strike and a variable amount of sparge water, but water can only get up to 212 and I have to raise the temp to 168 at sparge. So, basically I am working with in constraints and within those constraints I get far more than 6.5g. So I boil longer. I don't get tannins at all. My efficiency is around 75%, I am playing with grain crushes and I got my efficiency up to 85% and wasn't expecting it so I got about another 10 to 15GP. Basically, I can't tell if I have bad melanoidins and it's possible I am getting caramelization but if there is some I can't taste it, but that also might be due to the style.
Basically I know that once I get to 85% consistently I can do shorter boils, but 75% over and over again is nothing to sneeze at. At a 12 pound I only boil for about an hour to boil off water and another hour for the hop additions. It seems to work for me, but I am always looking for ways to make it better. If you have also been within those constraints, what did you choose to do?
Basically I know that once I get to 85% consistently I can do shorter boils, but 75% over and over again is nothing to sneeze at. At a 12 pound I only boil for about an hour to boil off water and another hour for the hop additions. It seems to work for me, but I am always looking for ways to make it better. If you have also been within those constraints, what did you choose to do?
drummerguysteve
Well-Known Member
With HG brews, the melanoidins might be ok. When I can't fall within a proper volume, I thicken my mash a little, and/or use dry extract to raise my gravity. This is beneficial because you can do a late addition, and get better hop utilization.
My IIPA has 3 lbs of extra light dry extract added at 15 minutes, and I hit 10% abv without too much wort. I do a 90 minute boil for that, and wouldn't want any longer because of the risk of melanoidins in a hop-focused beer.
My IIPA has 3 lbs of extra light dry extract added at 15 minutes, and I hit 10% abv without too much wort. I do a 90 minute boil for that, and wouldn't want any longer because of the risk of melanoidins in a hop-focused beer.
asterix404
Well-Known Member
Yea, I have been seriously thinking about adding extra light DME at the very end of the boil when I do the big beers, but that just begs the question... so if I use less base malt, I don't get the same amount of enzymes int he mash, is this a problem? Do I just use less of everything and put in a few pounds of extra light? I don't think I will get the same beer if I use less grain and add DME. Is this true?
drummerguysteve
Well-Known Member
You'll still have plenty of enzymes. What's your grain bill look like?
asterix404
Well-Known Member
So I did an imp oat stout using:
10# pale 2row
2# chocolate
2# roasted barley
1# CaraPils
2# oat malt
So for something like this... I did 5g strike and hit 150, 5g spage and hit 168 and was left with about 8g of malt which I boiled down to about 6.25 and then added hops. The boil for this took about 3.5-4 hours in total. I can boil about a gallon an hour and it took about half an hour or so to get the water up to boiling.
10# pale 2row
2# chocolate
2# roasted barley
1# CaraPils
2# oat malt
So for something like this... I did 5g strike and hit 150, 5g spage and hit 168 and was left with about 8g of malt which I boiled down to about 6.25 and then added hops. The boil for this took about 3.5-4 hours in total. I can boil about a gallon an hour and it took about half an hour or so to get the water up to boiling.
drummerguysteve
Well-Known Member
If you drop your base malt down to 5.25 lbs, and add 3 lbs late addition DME, you'll do just fine. Still plenty of enzymes to convert.
However, I'd drop the roasted malts down quite a bit. Maybe half of what you're using. If you like it, keep it. You're at 68 SRMs which is incredibly dark, but if you want to keep it that way, I'd at least swap out some for debittered carafa.
Like I said, keep it if you like it. As far as the mash, you should be able to dough in with about 3 gallons, and sparge with a couple more. I'd still keep an eye on oversparging. The late addition of DME will raise your hop utilization too, so you may check your hopping the first time you do this again.
However, I'd drop the roasted malts down quite a bit. Maybe half of what you're using. If you like it, keep it. You're at 68 SRMs which is incredibly dark, but if you want to keep it that way, I'd at least swap out some for debittered carafa.
Like I said, keep it if you like it. As far as the mash, you should be able to dough in with about 3 gallons, and sparge with a couple more. I'd still keep an eye on oversparging. The late addition of DME will raise your hop utilization too, so you may check your hopping the first time you do this again.
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