No Mash Out - FLY SPARGE

[XxCaseyBrewxX]

My People...

I have been mashing (All Grain) in a 10 Gallon Igloo and have not been Mashing Out to Sparge Temperatures. I basically go from a mash temperature of say 145-155 F, then after 60-75 min I go straight to sparging once I am done recirculating, draining first runnings, etc. I typicallly sparge at 170 F.

My question is if whether or not I am having a negative impact on the flavor of my brew by not Mashing Out and keeping my mash temperature at 145 F then jumping straight to 170 F with the fly sparge. Any idea?

I am in troubleshooting mode as my last few brews have been producing the same kind of peachy, but off flavor. It's too consistent in aroma and taste and it gradually increases over time and is not that pleasurable. I am thinking that it may be from under pitching and not letting giving the yeast enough time to clean up the brew. The flavor is a bit difficult to describe, but seems consistent with the description of acetaldehyde from all of my reading. Also, I am very careful with sanitation so I do not think that is what is causing this.

What do you think? And thanks for your help! Happy Brewing!!!

 

[cluckk]

My People...

I have been mashing (All Grain) in a 10 Gallon Igloo and have not been Mashing Out to Sparge Temperatures. I basically go from a mash temperature of say 145-155 F, then after 60-75 min I go straight to sparging once I am done recirculating, draining first runnings, etc. I typicallly sparge at 170 F.

My question is if whether or not I am having a negative impact on the flavor of my brew by not Mashing Out and keeping my mash temperature at 145 F then jumping straight to 170 F with the fly sparge. Any idea?

I am in troubleshooting mode as my last few brews have been producing the same kind of peachy, but off flavor. It's too consistent in aroma and taste and it gradually increases over time and is not that pleasurable. I am thinking that it may be from under pitching and not letting giving the yeast enough time to clean up the brew. The flavor is a bit difficult to describe, but seems consistent with the description of acetaldehyde from all of my reading. Also, I am very careful with sanitation so I do not think that is what is causing this.

What do you think? And thanks for your help! Happy Brewing!!!

You're not going to get that flavor from your mash routine. Not going to mash out temps might lower your efficiency and the wort will continue to convert until the wort temp gets high enough.

The fruity flavor is likely from the underpitching that you mentioned and not giving enough time to finish up. Always pitch a good amount of strong yeast and give plenty of time to clean up.

 

[Yooper]

I'm trying to understand what your method is. You mention draining first runnings, and then sparging?

 

[XxCaseyBrewxX]

I'm trying to understand what your method is. You mention draining first runnings, and then sparging?

Yep...

Mash
Recirculate
Drain First Runnings to Kettle
Fly Sparge (30-40 min)

 

[Yooper]

Yep...

Mash
Recirculate
Drain First Runnings to Kettle
Fly Sparge (30-40 min)

That won't create off flavors- but your efficiency would be greatly affected I'd think.

Generally, you don't drain your first runnings out of the mashtun when you fly sparge. Fly sparging works on the principle of diffusion, so you leave your wort in the MLT and slowly drain it (ultra slowly, should take an hour) while you sprinkle fresh water on it.

By draining the wort out first, then adding water to the kettle, and fly sparging too fast, it's sort of more of a hybrid batch sparge.

 

[XxCaseyBrewxX]

That won't create off flavors- but your efficiency would be greatly affected I'd think.

Generally, you don't drain your first runnings out of the mashtun when you fly sparge. Fly sparging works on the principle of diffusion, so you leave your wort in the MLT and slowly drain it (ultra slowly, should take an hour) while you sprinkle fresh water on it.

By draining the wort out first, then adding water to the kettle, and fly sparging too fast, it's sort of more of a hybrid batch sparge.

Really? So where does the term "first runnings" come from? I always thought that I would drain first, then rinse grains by fly sparging once I have an inch or so of water above grain.

 

[ThreeRatBastards]

Really? So where does the term "first runnings" come from? I always thought that I would drain first, then rinse grains by fly sparging once I have an inch or so of water above grain.

"First Runnings" comes from batch sparging not fly sparging. In batch sparging you vorlauf, collect first runnings, fill your mash tun with sparge water, stir, let it set for 10 min or so, vorlauf again, and collect second runnings. Repeat until you have desired pre-boil volume (3rd runnings, etc).

With fly sparging you are continuously "running" the wort, albeit at a very slow rate, so the term first running doesn't really apply.

 

[XxCaseyBrewxX]

"First Runnings" comes from batch sparging not fly sparging. In batch sparging you vorlauf, collect first runnings, fill your mash tun with sparge water, stir, let it set for 10 min or so, vorlauf again, and collect second runnings. Repeat until you have desired pre-boil volume (3rd runnings, etc).

With fly sparging you are continuously "running" the wort, albeit at a very slow rate, so the term first running doesn't really apply.

Ha! That makes sense. But I should be draining my wort from kettle first, right? And then start sparging once I have just about an inch (or two) of water above grain?

 

[XxCaseyBrewxX]

"First Runnings" comes from batch sparging not fly sparging. In batch sparging you vorlauf, collect first runnings, fill your mash tun with sparge water, stir, let it set for 10 min or so, vorlauf again, and collect second runnings. Repeat until you have desired pre-boil volume (3rd runnings, etc).

With fly sparging you are continuously "running" the wort, albeit at a very slow rate, so the term first running doesn't really apply.

Ha! That makes sense. But I should be draining my wort from kettle first, right? And then start sparging once I have just about an inch (or two) of water above grain?

And thanks for your everyone's help. I'm just trying to make the best beer I possibly can

 

[acidrain]

You should already only have an inch or two of water above the grain bed.
I don't fly sparge, but basically you start draining very slowly, then at the same time introduce sparge water onto the top of the grain bed. The idea is that the heavy sugared wart will stay low, and the lighter clear sparge water will float on top as it's being drained through the grain bed.
Stop when you have your pre-boil volume, or what the PH starts to get too high.