Nitro balancing

[voodoophil]

Hi all,

I've recently amassed the gear for a nitro system to run in parallel with my existing standard kegging setup.

A quick run down of my gear... I'm running 30/70 blend gas. I have a NADS stout faucet from Chi which is connected to a corny via ~80cm of beverage tube.

At the moment all I'm able to do is pour a very impressive glass of pure foam. Not ideal. My dispensing pressure is 34psi. The keg was originally carbonated using the previous CO2 system, but I burped it for a couple of days and recarbonated using the nitro blend so it should be at the same carbonation level as the dispensing pressure.

I guess my question is what needs to be done? Is the beer line to the faucet too short? (I figured with the restrictor plate in the tap that this isn't really likely to be an issue).

Advice from those that run a nitro system is appreciated.

 

[-CHRIS-]

How many volumes of CO2 are in your beer before you are trying to dispense? Sounds like you are over carbonated. Nitrogen does not dissolve in beer from my research, so you wasted your time burping the keg. The purpose of the beer gas is to leave the keg at serving pressure without over carbing it, no other reason. Your beer line length is not important since you want the CO2 to come out of solution when dispensing.

I have a real Guinness tap on my fridge and I am dispensing with pure CO2 at 35 psi and it works perfectly. I get a full glass of foam, which settles out in 1.5 to 2 minutes, then I top off the glass. After dispensing, I turn my regulator down to 7 PSI in my 40 degree fridge to keep the beer around 2 volumes of CO2.

Chris

 

[voodoophil]

Nitrogen does not dissolve in beer from my research, so you wasted your time burping the keg.

My gas is a 30/70 blend - not pure nitrogen.
Second - the keg was originally carbonated (and dispensed) on 100% CO2. Hence burping the keg to reduce its carbonation to something more suitable for the nitro system.

Just to be clear, when I say a glass of foam I don't mean a standard Guinness pour of liquid with cascading head. I mean literally a glass of foam with no liquid at all.

 

[BadBeagleBrew]

Try connecting keg to a normal faucet to see what your carb level is like. Sounds like it's over carbed, or your beer gas tank was filled wrong. Maybe didn't bleed original carb level down enough before connecting to nitrogen.

 

[dustinboyd]

I'm having almost an identical problem right now. My keg was originally carbed with co2 also, but I burped it for 4-5 days straight until it was as flat as a pancake. The first nitro pour is pretty good, but all the rest after that are pure foam. I'm guessing the first pour being good has something to do with the beer sitting in the line from the previous days pour, but I'm not sure what. I know it goes flat in the line but like I said, the whole keg is flat now anyway. I'm not meaning to hijack your thread, I'm just looking for the same information you are...

 

[JuanMoore]

What's the estimated carb level of the beer? What's your serving temp? Line length doesn't really matter with a nitro system, so that't not the issue. As mentioned, the most likely cause is that the beer is still overcarbed. Depending on the faucet, you need to be under ~1.8-2.2 vol to prevent excessive foaming. Some faucets also work better at slightly different pressures than others due to variation in the restrictor plate hole size and pattern, so maybe you could try reducing the pressure to 30psi or bumping it to 40psi and see how it pours. Can you see any large bubbles or pockets of gas in the beer line?

I know it goes flat in the line but like I said, the whole keg is flat now anyway.

Beer does not go flat in the line. Are you sure the carb level is below 1.8 vol? If so, how? Depending on the beer temp, initial carb level, and how many times a day your were burping the keg, 5 days may not have been enough to drop the carb level sufficiently. I assume you didn't have any gas connected during the burping process.

 

[dustinboyd]

I was waiting for the OP to respond so I didn't steal the thread, but I'm seeing no response...anyway to answer your question to me, I don't know 100% for sure that mine is under 1.8vol, how can you tell? I just know its super flat. You are correct, gas is disconnected. It's now been 7 days with continued burping and no success still.

 

[JuanMoore]

I just know its super flat. You are correct, gas is disconnected. It's now been 7 days with continued burping and no success still.

Again, how do you "just know it's super flat"? Because it tastes flat? Are you tasting it after pouring a foamy mess through the nitro faucet and letting it settle, or after pouring though a standard faucet with no foam/head? Foam/head is the result of carbonation leaving the beer, so any time the pour is super foamy the rest of the beer will taste completely flat. If the beer in the keg were actually completely flat, you wouldn't be able to cause it to foam very much at all.

 

[ntculenuf]

following this thread.
After a 3/4 keg success and 2 failures I talked with a brewer at Pizza Port San Clemente about home nitro setup (he had one). He suggested to not carb the keg in advance that most problems are from over carbonating the beer. he said that it should absorb enough CO2 from the beer gas to pour correctly, since you're trying to replicate the hand pump/cask style of pour. I have not had the chance to try this but i do have an esb in the keezer waiting for me to fill my nitro tank.

 

[JuanMoore]

most problems are from over carbonating the beer.

This is absolutely true. If your ferm temps are low and you're careful racking, there will be close to 1 vol of residual carbonation in the beer already, which while on the low side, is still plenty to get a nice cascading effect on nitro. Doesn't take adding much more to create issues.

 

[dustinboyd]

I did switch it to a regular tap and it was definitely flat. I do have a new batch that I own on putting on nitro though that I am just going to hook up to nitro right from the start at see what happens like ntculenuf suggested. We'll see what happens. I'll be sure to update here but it will be awhile until this keg kicks. Thanks all for the tips and suggestions, and I hope the OP voodoophil got his questions answered too!

 

[ntculenuf]

just dropped my tank off today to get filled and will ost back with my results in a few weeks. hope all goes well.

 

[ntculenuf]

Well I had my ESB connected to beergas for about 5 days before I tried it and it wasn't pouring right. No cascade real flat flavor. Put on CO2 at 10 psi for almost 24 hours and back on beer gas @ 15psi, now i have pretty good cascading, solid head and just enough CO2 left in the ESB. Tried a lower psi after talking with a brewer about their nitro beer. He had his big tank at 29psi and about 50-60 ft of line. I have 13ft so figured I would lower the pressure and slow the pour down.
I'll get this Nitro thing figured out

 

[dustinboyd]

I obviously don't know for sure bc I haven't figured it out myself yet but I think it will take at least 2 weeks hooked up to beer gas before it pours properly (if you never hook it up to pure co2).

 

[dustinboyd]

I know it's been awhile but I promised to post my results. I took a new keg of un-carbed milk stout that I brewed and hooked it up directly to the nitro setup, without caring with co2 in advance. I left it for two weeks and have poured many pints since. This method has worked pretty well, however not completely perfect yet, but close! Now I'm just going to mess with the pressures a bit and it should be good. Thanks for the help everyone!