NEW StrangeBrew Elsinore Thread

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JayElDubya said:
I messed with the init script a lot today. (I'm using rasbian) Since launch.sh doesn't really fork itself and run in the background well, the only way I could get the script to work was to remove the --background option. It doesn't let you run sudo service stop/restart or anything, but it does run at startup. With launch.sh in its current form, the start-stop-daemon does but like out with the --background option. I'm away from my notes at the moment, but I have it starting on boot and that's it. Tomorrow is brew day so I won't be messing with it. I would love to see this running as a service though.

Today was my first time in awhile with the new interface. It really works well Doug. Can't wait to run it again tomorrow!
Click to expand...

I was also having some trouble with the service scripts working after the last commits. I found if I went back to anything before "438bc6f326e205c0d0fd6f8bfd28852f71aa3285" it worked. I've had about 2-3 weeks up time now controlling my keg fridge temp with SB elsinore as a service. I haven't been able to figure out what changed in that commit that would've made the service scripts not work anymore.
 
dandanbeer said:
anyone else having an issue with switches saving after doing the update? everything else is running like gangbusters, but I have to re-add my pumps each time if I reboot. This was not the case prior to the update.
Click to expand...

Please provide logs.
 
jangevaa said:
I was also having some trouble with the service scripts working after the last commits. I found if I went back to anything before "438bc6f326e205c0d0fd6f8bfd28852f71aa3285" it worked. I've had about 2-3 weeks up time now controlling my keg fridge temp with SB elsinore as a service. I haven't been able to figure out what changed in that commit that would've made the service scripts not work anymore.
Click to expand...


It's the same for me. Had it working as a service, but a recent update stopped it from working. I didn't go back to previous versions, but I may now.
 
I have a couple new SB elsinore blog posts. One is a parts list for a full featured control panel, that shouldn't cost you more than $300 (even then, I didn't look very hard to find best prices...) It includes a quick rendering and the estimated control panel size. Let me know if you're interested in the sketch up file! http://onbrewing.com/strangebrew-elsinore-faq-building-a-control-panel/

I also have recent short posts on when you might use logic level converters and another on duty cycle length (based on discussions in this thread). You can explore all strangebrew elsinore posts on my website here http://onbrewing.com/tag/strangebrew-elsinore/

if you're so inclined there is now a subscription option on the website, and if you have any ideas on things which initially (or continuously) provide you with a lot of confusion when approaching this software, let me now and I will see if I can make a post on it.
 
I imported a beerxml recipe into Stragebrew Elsinore. When I enter edit mode and drag the steps in an attempt to delete them, they do not go away. I get an error "Couldn't parse the position to delete: {tempprobe=BOIL, position=KETTLE}

** Please disregard - I shutdown and restarted Strangebrew Elsinore and the steps were gone.
 
GUI Help

Instead of using the GUI what files would I edit to make the changes the GUI would handle. Right now, with the GUI I was able to change the names to MASH and Brew Kettle but I can't stay in edit mode long enough to do more. Was not able to add a Switch or Timer either.

Would rather code it right now and then work out the issue. It may even be a permission screw up.
 
Are you editing from the hosehead or via a browser from another computer? I find it better to edit via a remote browser. There is a configuration file in your hosehead directory.
 
jangevaa said:
I have a couple new SB elsinore blog posts. One is a parts list for a full featured control panel, that shouldn't cost you more than $300 (even then, I didn't look very hard to find best prices...) It includes a quick rendering and the estimated control panel size. Let me know if you're interested in the sketch up file! http://onbrewing.com/strangebrew-elsinore-faq-building-a-control-panel/

I also have recent short posts on when you might use logic level converters and another on duty cycle length (based on discussions in this thread). You can explore all strangebrew elsinore posts on my website here http://onbrewing.com/tag/strangebrew-elsinore/

if you're so inclined there is now a subscription option on the website, and if you have any ideas on things which initially (or continuously) provide you with a lot of confusion when approaching this software, let me now and I will see if I can make a post on it.
Click to expand...

Godlike, yes Sketchup please post a link to it as well!

This is literally what i was doing recently, using sketchup for my Coffin keezer helped a lot so wanted to do it for this to figure out what size box i need. Now i dont have to spend the hours it will take grabbing the models and getting everything placed. Thanks!

Ill be reading this to build my own for sure, as i like the Idea of a hosehead but feel that his component selection isn't the best(25A rating on the Element relays, and the element Powercon connectors are only rated for 20A). Other than that i think its built great. I just dont like with those ratings its realistically limiting you to <4500W elements or your going to burn something up very fast. Hopefully he modifies his design for hosehead3 to be a bit more robust to handle the 5500W Camco elements i'd venture to say most people use.

Its a good starting point for me, although i may steal the Hosehead idea and wire in a 12V and 5V power supply because they are cheap and tiny for the RPI and some 12V fans.
 
FuzzeWuzze said:
Godlike, yes Sketchup please post a link to it as well!

This is literally what i was doing recently, using sketchup for my Coffin keezer helped a lot so wanted to do it for this to figure out what size box i need. Now i dont have to spend the hours it will take grabbing the models and getting everything placed. Thanks!

Ill be reading this to build my own for sure, as i like the Idea of a hosehead but feel that his component selection isn't the best(25A rating on the Element relays, and the element Powercon connectors are only rated for 20A). Other than that i think its built great. I just dont like with those ratings its realistically limiting you to <4500W elements or your going to burn something up very fast. Hopefully he modifies his design for hosehead3 to be a bit more robust to handle the 5500W Camco elements i'd venture to say most people use.

Its a good starting point for me, although i may steal the Hosehead idea and wire in a 12V and 5V power supply because they are cheap and tiny for the RPI and some 12V fans.
Click to expand...

Here's a link to the sketchup file. Would love to see if anybody had any improvements to it. The patch panel is not really to scale currently (should be 10" wide), and the DPDT relay is a bit larger than what would be used in something like this, but I didn't care enough to make my own accurate component to represent it. If anybody wants to make these improvements or others, go ahead and please share your results.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6wzKaWKHSchUXQ3MVk1U1k4N28/view?usp=sharing
 
RonR said:
Are you editing from the hosehead or via a browser from another computer? I find it better to edit via a remote browser. There is a configuration file in your hosehead directory.
Click to expand...

I want to use SSH from a remote machine. When I try the Web GUI there appears like I have s set time between refreshes. I am sure the problem is on my end I was having issues with permissions with my BeagleboneBlack which I thought I resolved. I have always liked command line editing better.

Thanks

FYI, BBB running ubuntu Trusty
 
jangevaa said:
Here's a link to the sketchup file. Would love to see if anybody had any improvements to it. The patch panel is not really to scale currently (should be 10" wide), and the DPDT relay is a bit larger than what would be used in something like this, but I didn't care enough to make my own accurate component to represent it. If anybody wants to make these improvements or others, go ahead and please share your results.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6wzKaWKHSchUXQ3MVk1U1k4N28/view?usp=sharing
Click to expand...

Another question, you list the DPDT relay at 120V. Ive never really used DPDT relays, so i am not as familiar with their workings as mechanical/ssr's, why are you pulling in 240V on a relay coil rated for 120V then sourcing that to the SSR's??

Also what are the purpose of the switches, just manual control to be able to turn the pumps on and off? Isnt that all controlled via SW anyways?
 
FuzzeWuzze said:
Another question, you list the DPDT relay at 120V. Ive never really used DPDT relays, so i am not as familiar with their workings as mechanical/ssr's, why are you pulling in 240V on a relay coil rated for 120V then sourcing that to the SSR's??
Click to expand...


The coil only takes 120 to activate and close the 220 legs. This allows you to use less expensive and more readily available switches to switch. The 220.
 
BlkWater_brewer said:
I want to use SSH from a remote machine. When I try the Web GUI there appears like I have s set time between refreshes. I am sure the problem is on my end I was having issues with permissions with my BeagleboneBlack which I thought I resolved. I have always liked command line editing better.

Thanks

FYI, BBB running ubuntu Trusty
Click to expand...
I should have stated that the config file is in the directory that you installed strangebrew. I was having similar problems and I opened the config file with a text editor and did some simple edits like brewery name and renaming my probes.
 
FuzzeWuzze said:
Another question, you list the DPDT relay at 120V. Ive never really used DPDT relays, so i am not as familiar with their workings as mechanical/ssr's, why are you pulling in 240V on a relay coil rated for 120V then sourcing that to the SSR's??

Also what are the purpose of the switches, just manual control to be able to turn the pumps on and off? Isnt that all controlled via SW anyways?
Click to expand...

The idea is that, you don't want 240v at 30a or 40a running through a switch you're going to activate, that would be a bit dangerous. To circumvent this, you control the main power with a relay, which is essentially a remote switch. To control this remote switch, we use a lower voltage and MUCH lower amperage circuit. When this circuit is completed (with a cheap $3 toggle), the relay closes, powering the panel.

The second toggle is used to ensure that only a single control circuit is completed for the SSRs at a time, which is what controls the elements.

The toggles 3 and 4 are entirely optional. Their inclusion is based on discussion in this thread that people preferred having the option of manual control of certain things, such as pumps. It's easy to put in switches that will manually override any relay that would otherwise only be controlled by SB elsinore. Essentially the switch provides two methods of completing the control circuit for a relay: The first is a circuit to the GPIO on the beaglebone black/raspberry pi, which activates the relay only when the GPIO is in a high state. The second is a circuit that connects directly to 3.3V, so when this circuit is completed, the relay is always active, not controlled by the GPIO state at all. This is what is meant by manual override.
 
Here is how I got StrangeBrew Elsinore to autostart.

I created a file called SBElsinore.desktop inside of /home/pi/.config/autostart.
The contents of the file are:
[Desktop Entry]
Encoding=UTF-8
Name=SBElsinore
Comment=Starts StrangeBrew Elsinore Brewery Controller
Exec=lxterminal --command "/home/pi/SB_Elsinore_Server/launch.sh
Terminal=true

chmod 755 on the file
reboot

For anything else I need to do on the Pi I can use tightVNC or an SSH session.

Seems to work well enough for me at the moment.
 
jangevaa said:
The second toggle is used to ensure that only a single control circuit is completed for the SSRs at a time, which is what controls the elements.
Click to expand...

Isnt this part of what Elsinore is responsible for? Controlling what SSR is supplying power so both arent on at the same time and tripping your breaker?
 
FuzzeWuzze said:
Isnt this part of what Elsinore is responsible for? Controlling what SSR is supplying power so both arent on at the same time and tripping your breaker?
Click to expand...

No, Elsinore does not assume that you purposefully allow your breaker to be overloaded. You should not allow more on a circuit then the circuit breaker can handle. Supporting this would be tantamount to enabling bad techniques that can kill.
 
Out of curiosity, how hard would it be to implement speed control for a dc pump in to Elsinore? I have seen various projects for the Raspberry Pi that do this. The folks at Greatbreweh.com use a voltage based speed control for their pump. Might be something neat to have in the software, it could be used for a mash stirer motor as well.
 
jangevaa said:
The idea is that, you don't want 240v at 30a or 40a running through a switch you're going to activate, that would be a bit dangerous. To circumvent this, you control the main power with a relay, which is essentially a remote switch. To control this remote switch, we use a lower voltage and MUCH lower amperage circuit. When this circuit is completed (with a cheap $3 toggle), the relay closes, powering the panel.

The second toggle is used to ensure that only a single control circuit is completed for the SSRs at a time, which is what controls the elements.

The toggles 3 and 4 are entirely optional. Their inclusion is based on discussion in this thread that people preferred having the option of manual control of certain things, such as pumps. It's easy to put in switches that will manually override any relay that would otherwise only be controlled by SB elsinore. Essentially the switch provides two methods of completing the control circuit for a relay: The first is a circuit to the GPIO on the beaglebone black/raspberry pi, which activates the relay only when the GPIO is in a high state. The second is a circuit that connects directly to 3.3V, so when this circuit is completed, the relay is always active, not controlled by the GPIO state at all. This is what is meant by manual override.
Click to expand...

Any chance you could sketch a circuit diagram for the build you listed?
 
FuzzeWuzze said:
Any chance you could sketch a circuit diagram for the build you listed?
Click to expand...

I don't really have the time right now. There are youtube videos on wiring up the relay module. Use of the DPDT relay is quite basic, you could read theelectricbrewery for a better understanding of that. Wiring for solid state relays and temperature probes is included in Doug's documentation for SB elsinore. If you need help with something particular post about it here and I will see if I can help.
 
wyzazz said:
Out of curiosity, how hard would it be to implement speed control for a dc pump in to Elsinore? I have seen various projects for the Raspberry Pi that do this. The folks at Greatbreweh.com use a voltage based speed control for their pump. Might be something neat to have in the software, it could be used for a mash stirer motor as well.
Click to expand...

Software PWM can be pretty computationally intensive. I don't know realistically how short you can set the the duty cycle, but manual mode in SB elsinore is essentially PWM, and I think when utilized with a DC motor such as these pumps you will get the expected outcome as long as the duty cycle was short enough. You would also need a special SSR to control this DC circuit.

I wouldn't expect that expanding "manual mode" to GPIOs which are not linked to temperature probes would be all that difficult. I'm not the programmer though. I'm also not sure if this would give you the performance that you needed anyways.

For some real PWM performance on raspberry pi check out this project: https://github.com/sarfata/pi-blaster/
 
Hello. Just signed up. Love the forum, love this software.

I currently have a simple digital thermostat controlling my dual element BIAB vessel. Each 2200W element is connected to separate circuits in the house as to not overload and therefore separate SSRs. The 2nd element is manually toggled on when bring the vessel up to mash and boiling temperatures.

I understand I can achieve the same thing with Elsinore through defining an aux GPIO to a kettle PID. Can the toggling of this element be automated based on where the current vessel temperature is to the mash profile?

EDIT: Is the preferred option to wire both element SSRs to the single GPIO and amend the PID parameters accordingly?
 
Last edited:
jangevaa said:
Software PWM can be pretty computationally intensive. I don't know realistically how short you can set the the duty cycle, but manual mode in SB elsinore is essentially PWM, and I think when utilized with a DC motor such as these pumps you will get the expected outcome as long as the duty cycle was short enough.
Click to expand...

For what it's worth, most SSRs change states at the zero-crossing of the AC on the load side. This means that without additional circuitry, the shortest duty cycle you can have is 1/120 of a second (in the US) and that's if you could guarantee that the pulses of the control signal were synced to the AC load frequency....which it isn't. Therefore, I'd say 1/60 sec. is your minimum duty cycle.
 
jangevaa said:
Software PWM can be pretty computationally intensive. I don't know realistically how short you can set the the duty cycle, but manual mode in SB elsinore is essentially PWM, and I think when utilized with a DC motor such as these pumps you will get the expected outcome as long as the duty cycle was short enough. You would also need a special SSR to control this DC circuit.

I wouldn't expect that expanding "manual mode" to GPIOs which are not linked to temperature probes would be all that difficult. I'm not the programmer though. I'm also not sure if this would give you the performance that you needed anyways.

For some real PWM performance on raspberry pi check out this project: https://github.com/sarfata/pi-blaster/
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link, maybe I'll grab a small DC Motor from a parts box and see how it acts when hooked up to an SSR in Manual Mode. It might be an interesting experiment.
 
shingle said:
I understand I can achieve the same thing with Elsinore through defining an aux GPIO to a kettle PID. Can the toggling of this element be automated based on where the current vessel temperature is to the mash profile?

EDIT: Is the preferred option to wire both element SSRs to the single GPIO and amend the PID parameters accordingly?
Click to expand...

I believe that is the way it is supposed to behave. Once you reach your desired temp the Aux Element would turn off. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I also don't see any issues wiring both Element SSR's to the single GPIO. I currently use a Dual SSR in my 240V system and wire them this way. And I've also wired two 120v elements to separate SSR's and driven both by the same output on an Auber PID, same concept.
 
wyzazz said:
I believe that is the way it is supposed to behave. Once you reach your desired temp the Aux Element would turn off. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

Aux elements are manual on/off control, they are not activated with the main PID control.

wyzazz said:
I also don't see any issues wiring both Element SSR's to the single GPIO. I currently use a Dual SSR in my 240V system and wire them this way. And I've also wired two 120v elements to separate SSR's and driven both by the same output on an Auber PID, same concept.
Click to expand...

This is the better way to do it.
 
DougEdey said:
Aux elements are manual on/off control, they are not activated with the main PID control.



This is the better way to do it.
Click to expand...

If I wanted to heat strike water in the BK (3 gallons of water) while bringing up the temp in my HLT (8 gallons of water) with an element in each pot, you would put them both on the same GPIO? How would you control the BK independently of the HLT when only one has gotten to the right temp and the other hasn't?
 
decoleur said:
If I wanted to heat strike water in the BK (3 gallons of water) while bringing up the temp in my HLT (8 gallons of water) with an element in each pot, you would put them both on the same GPIO? How would you control the BK independently of the HLT when only one has gotten to the right temp and the other hasn't?
Click to expand...

No, you would use a separate gpio and separate temp probe for the separate vessel. One for the BK and one for the HLT.
 
wyzazz said:
Thanks for the link, maybe I'll grab a small DC Motor from a parts box and see how it acts when hooked up to an SSR in Manual Mode. It might be an interesting experiment.
Click to expand...

Right on, report back after. As I mentioned you'll need a DC/DC SSR. Still cheap, but slightly different from the SSR you'd use for your elements.
 
Hi all - apologies to folks asking me to help test their service scripts and/or the ubuntu script from Doug... it's moot now, Doug fixed it. It's working again!

How does one remove a switch? I searched the thread with no success. I've created a switch which is consuming a GPIO I now want to use with a probe. The switch function is blocking the heat/cool controls associated w/ the probe. I can't remove the switch or edit the GPIO to which the switch is assigned.

Thanks for any help in advance -
 
Edit Mode -> Drag switch away from the switch area until it says "Delete" -> Let go -> Wait for refresh
 
Improved device naming support (slashes and other characters should now be OK).
 

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