Never brewed - wanting to jump right into all grain

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Jump right in, it's not that hard. All you're doing is soaking grains in hot water, ~152, then rinsing with more hot water. The best advice I can give you is to make an immersion chiller. Just get soft copper coil, it is used for running water to refrigerators, I'd recommend 50'. Then grab a paint can or corny keg or some cylinder about the same diameter. You just gently wrap the copper around your keg and then put fittings on the ends. Just like that you spent $20 less and got a 50' IC instead of a 25' IC.
 
brent756 said:
I don't really have any doubts that I'll enjoy it as a hobby. I'm an avid baker/cook and really enjoy consuming/sharing things that I make from scratch, which is why I'm wanting to go straight to all grain vs. extract.
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As I have mentioned before and BigFloyd alluded to in his posting, making good beer has very little to do with being able cook. In fact, brewing good beer has more to do with being able to clean well than it does with being able to cook. Brewers do not make beer. Brewers make wort, yeast makes beer. Brewing is about being able to control spoilage. Sanitation, temperature control, and knowledge of how the biologic that one pitches into one's wort behaves are the keys to good beer. Bigger improvements are made by learning how to manage yeast and fermentation correctly than are made when making the transition from extract to all-grain brewing.
 
EarlyAmateurZymurgist said:
As I have mentioned before and BigFloyd alluded to in his posting, making good beer has very little to do with being able cook. In fact, brewing good beer has more to do with being able to clean well than it does with being able to cook. Brewers do not make beer. Brewers make wort, yeast makes beer. Brewing is about being able to control spoilage. Sanitation, temperature control, and knowledge of how the biologic that one pitches into one's wort behaves are the keys to good beer. Bigger improvements are made by learning how to manage yeast and fermentation correctly than are made when making the transition from extract to all-grain brewing.
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That's like saying that baker's don't make bread; leavening, heat, and time make bread. Bakers only make dough. Being a good cook means being able to understand and consider what flavors work together, what happens to those flavors as a result of some other variable (heat, time, moisture), planning, and execution. Sounds like the same things you do when brewing.

Good sanitation applies to other forms of food production (which is what brewing essentially is) as well. In fact, sanitation, temperature control, and understanding how the yeast works... well, that sounds like baking, too!

I don't think it's an either/or proposition.

The part that is true is that managing yeast, temperature, and sanitation are all bigger points of improvement than just grain vs. extract. It might be easier to master those others with extract because you limit the variables until you're comfortable.
 
ericbw said:
...The part that is true is that managing yeast, temperature, and sanitation are all bigger points of improvement than just grain vs. extract. It might be easier to master those others with extract because you limit the variables until you're comfortable.
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But why does it have to be one or the other - this guys seems to have the oney to invest in what he needs to get into Ag as well as Kegging, so I would expect he could also afford to get a cheap fridge and temp controller to control fermentation.
Using dry yeast (my particular flavour of choice being US05) will elimate any pitching rate issue at first (bigger beer use more packs).
Realistically how hard is it to make sure you care for your yeast - chill to correct pitching temp, ferment at correct temp, D-rest if you fell it is needed, and pitch enough - oxygenation/aeration at the start can be enough to just allow the wort to splash into the fermenter (plus the dry yeast producers do claim that aeration is not required... the homebrewing jury is still out though I guess)
 
I think I did one extract brew when I started then went All grain I actually bought my setup from Craigslist like 3 years ago, and its been something I enjoy I think that with all grain it opens up so many possibilities, different recipes you can tweak and experiment with.

Now I am slowly converting my basement to a mini home brewery which I plan to do Ebiab inside and my gas rig 3 vessel outside.

As for equipment you can check the For Sale forum and possibly find some good deals. Even my fermentation fridge I got done for under 150.00 with a doner fridge and the STC-1000 Temp Controller build.
 
I jumped right into all grain last year and I'm glad I did. I've learned just about everything from this forum and a friend that brews. I still haven't actually watched him through a brewday but I watched a couple youtube vids about the process and knew I'd enjoy it. I wasn't wrong, I brewed 70+ gallons last year! Now it may not be for everyone but from your post it looks like it'll be right up your ally. As long as you don't mind cleaning.

Do I need to get separate kettles for HLT and BK?
Nope, I don't have seperate vessles. As others have said, you'll have to use a bucket or something to collect your mash runnings wile you heat your sparge water up. I use my botteling bucket. If you want to fly sparge you might want to get a seperate HLT but for batch sparging one is fine.

-What size kettle(s) should I get to be able to do 5 gallon batches?
The bigger the better. I have an 8 gallon and it's just barley big enough for 5 gallon batches. Get a 10 if you can to give yourself some breathing room. Boil overs are damn near impossible to clean.

-Suggested material for kettle? SS, AL, Keggle?
This is preferance and I perfer SS. I'm sure a keggle would be cool. I like SS becuase it doesn't rust. If you go aluminum you just need to dry it after cleaning.

You'll defiantly need a hydrometer to take gravity readings, and a thermometer to get your water up to temp and monitor mash tempuratures. I like the digital ones that you can set to beep when they reach a certain temp.

A mill isn't crucial but you'll want one eventually and I say sooner is better then later. All the grains I've gotten pre-milled from the internet yielded horrible efficiancy. LHBS was better but they charge an arm and a leg. Now that I have my own mill I get consistant efficiancy and can buy grains cheap!

The most important thing to remember is RDWHAHB. The hardest part for me was waiting for my first batch to be ready.
 
So I was going to go the whole DIY route with the mash tun, wort chiller, piece together some kettles with a turkey fryer base, etc. Ended up browsing some local brew forums and found a guy selling his setup for a good price.

17.5 Penrose kettle with stainless ball valve
propane burner
70 qt coleman cooler with copper manifold and stainless ball valve
DIY counterflow chiller
DIY immersion chiller
Williams Brewing oxygenation system

I'm going to be picking that up this week.

I have a free upright freezer that I was going to use for keg storage. I'll probably just start off with picnic faucets and 2 keg setup. I have a dorm fridge that I can use as a fermentation chamber if the basement gets too warm or temps fluctuate too much.

I'm pretty mindful of what I'm putting into it, didn't want to make it seem like I'm just throwing a ton of cash at it blindly.

It's supposed to actually be above freezing here on Sunday so my buddy that has the AG setup are going to do a full brew day together on his equipment. I'm going to take 1/2 of the 10 gallons home to ferment.

If for some reason I end up hating it, I'll be able to unload that setup on CL myself and shouldn't be out anything. I would wait to pick it up until after Sunday, but not sure how long it'll be around for.
 
mattd2 said:
But why does it have to be one or the other - this guys seems to have the oney to invest in what he needs to get into Ag as well as Kegging, so I would expect he could also afford to get a cheap fridge and temp controller to control fermentation.
Using dry yeast (my particular flavour of choice being US05) will elimate any pitching rate issue at first (bigger beer use more packs).
Realistically how hard is it to make sure you care for your yeast - chill to correct pitching temp, ferment at correct temp, D-rest if you fell it is needed, and pitch enough - oxygenation/aeration at the start can be enough to just allow the wort to splash into the fermenter (plus the dry yeast producers do claim that aeration is not required... the homebrewing jury is still out though I guess)
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EthanH said:
I'm going to quote you in my memoirs.

An affinity for cooking and/or baking and/or chemistry goes a long way, but there are definitely some other equally important aspects, however subtle and mundane.
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Ugh.
 
mattd2 said:
Huh?
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I think it was a comment on how un-fun we're making homebrewing out to be.

And to be honest, reading either comment out of context, I'd have to agree.

Rather than being a debbie downer, I was just trying to make the point that there's a ton of different aspects of homebrewing that you can focus on (or not focus on...like me and water chemistry).
 
To the OP, ask this question to a 100 different homebrewers and get 100 different answers.

Seriously, as someone who is new to all grain and who started with extract and worked my way through partial mash brews, if I had it to do over again, I would have jumped right into all grain.

Make the process as simple or as complicated as you want it to be. Personally, I found BIAB very appealing and that's what I'm doing. I may change my mind in the future, but that just means I'd have to add a cooler to my existing set up.

I started small and scaled up. I would not suggest doing that. I feel like I wasted time and money by doing so. I would have learned the same lessons had I started out where I am. That said, everyone learns differently and has different approaches. What works for one person will drive another crazy.

I agree with some of the other folks here - see if you can brew a batch with your friend. Do some research on the different methods and find something you'll be comfortable with.
 
I started with all-grain brewing. My wife asked for a brewery for her birthday. No problem, I said. Research began and we settled on a Kal clone. While I awaited parts to arrive, I researched the hell out of all-grain brewing and learned the correct approach to doing. In the end, we have 2 Brewhemoth conicals, with temperature control, 17 kegs, 2 kegerators and capacity to brew 20.5 gallons into the fermentor. I am fortunate to have friends who own Micro's and friends who are master brewers over for brew sessions, and are amazed at the beers produced and the equipment set-up. Do we love it...damn right Skippy. Would we do it any other way? Nope. Jump in, the wort is fine!
 
All grain is hardly rocket science. Just do it. Watch some Youtube videos, put your gear together and go.
 
LOL I was just thinking about when I started, I did more prep and research into brewing than I ever did for having sex !
 
If you got the money buy it, if not make it, but do it.
Jump in and go all grain from the start, learn from your mistakes and have fun, read as much of this forum as you can.
 
Do it! I went all in and don't regret a single batch.

If you feel like going all grain them do it. If you feel like doing another method then go for it. Whatever it is, research it and learn as much as you can to make the best of the hobby. Simple as that. Don overthink it.
 
MrFeltimo said:
If you got the money buy it, if not make it, but do it.
Jump in and go all grain from the start, learn from your mistakes and have fun, read as much of this forum as you can.
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Or if you are even halfway decent at DIY make it even if you can buy it. Then if you don't like the hobby at least you can probably sell you equipment for more than you paid for it... you might even find a new hobby, making homebrewing equipment for others :D
 
I read Palmer's book and a couple months later brewed all grain using 5 gallon round cooler and 5 gallon boil kettle. It's not difficult if you are systematic and pay attention. By the way, I never brewed before and went all grain 1st time out.

Go for it. :)
 
After my first all grain, I thought to myself, "That's it, it sounded so much more difficult reading about it than doing it"

Besides paying close attention to mash temps, and sparging to rinse the grain, all grain brewing really doesn't have to be complicated at all!

As said above, don't over think it, paralysis by analysis as the say :)
 
wilserbrewer said:
After my first all grain, I thought to myself, "That's it, it sounded so much more difficult reading about it than doing it"

Besides paying close attention to mash temps, and sparging to rinse the grain, all grain brewing really doesn't have to be complicated at all!

As said above, don't over think it, paralysis by analysis as the say :)
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Exactly...I didn't even know extract existed when I started, I thought all-grain was the only way. I also did a 1 gallon kit with the basics included. It literally took no investment at all. Obviously I've upgraded but not by much. Just start AG, small scale and see what you like.

90% of what you buy for 1 to 3 gallon systems is still used at 10-20 gallons: tubing, bottling (or kegging) equipment, hydrometers, grain mills, fermentation setup (temp controller, etc). So its very easy to get a nice start, get the groove of it and a few decent recipes, then go all out with the equipment. Just my 2 cents
 
I'm still fairly new to brewing beer, but have a long history making mead and cider. I jumped right in to all grain brewing and have enjoyed the process quite a bit. I honestly think that extract or BIAB would be too boring for me and wouldn't have enough variables to keep it interesting for me.

I also like doing as much DIY as I can and I love making foods at home and giving them to other people. If you know yourself and know you'll like doing it, go ahead and jump in to all grain. You'll make some mistakes but you'll learn from them and have fun in the process.

As far as getting in to kegging, it honestly doesn't take that much to bottle and it's far cheaper. Do a few all grain batches and bottle, then think about investing in kegging equipment.

As far as what you'll need for all grain, it wasn't that much of an investment for me. For whatever type of brewing you'll be doing you will need a brew kettle, which was my biggest investment. The cooler I use for my mash tun set me back $35 and the one I use for my HLT set me back $25. The stainless steel fittings in total were about $80.
 
handlebarz said:
I'm still fairly new to brewing beer, but have a long history making mead and cider. I jumped right in to all grain brewing and have enjoyed the process quite a bit. I honestly think that extract or BIAB would be too boring for me and wouldn't have enough variables to keep it interesting for me.

I also like doing as much DIY as I can and I love making foods at home and giving them to other people. If you know yourself and know you'll like doing it, go ahead and jump in to all grain. You'll make some mistakes but you'll learn from them and have fun in the process.

As far as getting in to kegging, it honestly doesn't take that much to bottle and it's far cheaper. Do a few all grain batches and bottle, then think about investing in kegging equipment.

As far as what you'll need for all grain, it wasn't that much of an investment for me. For whatever type of brewing you'll be doing you will need a brew kettle, which was my biggest investment. The cooler I use for my mash tun set me back $35 and the one I use for my HLT set me back $25. The stainless steel fittings in total were about $80.
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In all honesty... when I first started brewing, buying malted grain instead of malting it myself seemed vaguely like cheating. I got over it, though.

Although I have malted my own wheat, because I inherited a lifetime supply from my parents (who ground their own whole-wheat flour), and I'd like to try making some of the specialty malts too. Maybe when I retire in a couple of years....
 
Wow, lots of great advice and sure to be more coming. I did the same thing except decided to try an extract kit at the last minute just to get my feet wet. I bought a kit which had everything I needed and I still use most of the equip today except for a few items that broke or I just needed to upgrade.

Invest in an accurate thermometer. I found one on amazon which has wet and dry sensors so I can use it for brewing and grilling.

Since you already have the freezer just buy a temp controller so you can keep your wort at fermentable temps. I use mine to age meat sometimes when Im not fermenting. Since you have a mentor to help, you're leaps and bounds ahead of where you could be. Good luck and have fun!
 
I went with AG and kegging right from my very first batch and did it alone. I read enough before the first attempt that I felt very comfortable and confident that I could pull it off. I made a few minor mistakes, but everything was alright and the beer turned out very good IMO. Go for it, have fun, it's not nearly as hard as it sounds.
 
More advice.......Find a home brew club in your area and see when any of the members will be brewing and observe them. I've helped new brewers in the past by brewing by example. Watching videos is great, but if you have a question, you can't ask a video. Further, homer brewers love to show off and are willing to share their knowledge if they can show off thier system, medals and beers.
 
Try to find twice the volume of your desired batch size, at the least. One day you're gonna have a hankerin' to brew some barleywine or some such and then you'll need every inch of space in that MLT.
 
Well, took pretty much everybody's advice here and went and brewed with my buddy weekend before last. We actually brewed two 10 gallon batches and nothing throughout the day really scared me off. Learned quite a bit and got to sample some of the brews he had on tap.

I picked up some equipment from a guy selling on a local brew forum. Hit up local brew shop for a few items that were lacking. Picked out a recipe and yesterday I had my first brew day here on my equipment.

Here is the recipe I decided on. I ended up using Wyeast 2565, someone in the comments of the recipe suggested.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f63/norther-german-altbier-best-show-238605

Ran into a few issues, first being that I was stubborn enough to still brew when I woke up and it was 22 degrees out. Even after preheating my mash tun, the strike water temp dropped too much when I moved into the tun. I tried to add some boiling water a few times to get it up to what my mash calculator told me, but it just wasn't working. Ended up having to transfer the strike water back to HLT and heating again. After that I hit my temp, added grains, and was pretty much spot on for my mash temp. I moved then tun inside since it was so cold out and the temp stayed for the 75 min mash.

After that things pretty much went off without a hitch.

Gravity reading of the post boil wort was a bit off. I'm guessing this might have to do with adding too much boiled water to my strike water. I didn't think to drain some off when I had to heat it again. I was stressing out a bit at that point.

Here is a pic of my gravity reading taken at about 70F. Like I said, a little low, but for my first attempt at any kind of brewing, I'll take it!

Thanks again for everyone's advice and to the countless number of posts I've read over the past few weeks.

WP_20140119_003.jpg
 
Calichusetts said:
Exactly...I didn't even know extract existed when I started, I thought all-grain was the only way. I also did a 1 gallon kit with the basics included. It literally took no investment at all. Obviously I've upgraded but not by much. Just start AG, small scale and see what you like.
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When I started brewing, there was no such thing as an all-grain kit beer. Heck, there was no such thing as a kit beer that came with hops and specialty malts. Kit beers came in 4lb cans and had names such as "Bruce's Dogbolter." Brewing with extract, specialty grains, and hops was a more advanced skill because one had to know how to source the ingredients. Most local homebrewing shops at that point in time primarily carried can-based kit beers. Bulk grain was a special-order purchase, and most of the hops sold in the homebrew trade were oxidized. I remember receiving my first order of hops from Mark Garetz shortly after he founded HopTech in 1993. It was an eye opening experience to say the least.
 
brent756 said:
Gravity reading of the post boil wort was a bit off. I'm guessing this might have to do with adding too much boiled water to my strike water. I didn't think to drain some off when I had to heat it again. I was stressing out a bit at that point.
Click to expand...

A lower than expected gravity reading is nothing to worry about. Your extraction rate will improve with experience.
 
For your first few all grain batches keep a little DME handy to adjust those post boil gravities (and some extra water too). After a few batches you'll have your efficiency figured out and won't need the "DME rescue squad" anymore.
 

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