Need help with the mash

[cokronk]

I'm doing my first AG brew day on Saturday and I'm making 10 gallons of a Tripel.

The recipe calls for 25lbs of grain, and that's including base and specialty. With the standard 1.25 quarts of water per lb, that comes out to 7.81 gallons.

The first problem is, I'm using a 10 gallon mashtun.

What is my process to get 10 gallons of wort from this mash? I'm not understanding how it's supposed to be 10 gallons from less than 8 gallons of water. Do you just top off what you're boiling? If so, won't that lower the OG?

 

[Double_D]

Batch sparge. Remove all the liquid in the mash tun after your rests are done and you confirm starch conversion. Measure what you have removed then sparge with the volume necessary to reach your target beginning boil volume.

 

[Homercidal]

What he said. Mash, drain, measure wort volume.

Sparge with the amount needed to make up total preboil volume.

You can split that volume into 2 sparges if you like. It will take more time but many people like to get that extra 1-2 points of efficiency. Personally, I've gone to a single sparge process. Saves time and effort and it's not worth the small amount of gain IMO.

 

[crackhead7]

that beer is probably going to be near max capacity for that tun. i fly sparge so I just run till I hit my pre boil volumn which is ~12.5 gal for a 10 gal batch.

 

[ajf]

See Green Bay Rackers--Mash Calculators (Can I mash it)
You will get very close to the total capacity of the MLT. You could use a thicker mash, which would give you a bit more space in the MLT, but don't try less than 1 qt per lb. After the mash, you will need to sparge to collect the volume you need.

-a.

 

[SGFBeerBuzz]

That's an awfully big beer to do as your first all-grain, simply because you're going to run into problems with the thickness of the mash. At that many pounds of grain, I'll be surprised if you have enough room for over a quart of water per pound in your mash, and then you won't have much room for temperature corrections if they're needed, since you're using a cooler mash tun. Remember that you still have to stir it once it's in the cooler, so you don't REALLY have 10 gallons of room to play with.

Having said that, I am also an AG brewer and did a batch with 30 lbs of grain in my 10 gallon cooler. I used .75 quarts per pound and got through it. I had a stuck mash a few times, but it worked out eventually. I wouldn't do it that way again, but it did work.

I have two different pieces of advice for you on this. The first is to do a smaller batch (5 gallons) or a lower gravity batch for your first all-grain beer. Remember that you're establishing a whole new set of procedures, so there is a lot more potential for problems anyway, and adding a difficult mash can only exacerbate that.

On the other hand, I say there's not much you can't recover from if something does go wrong, so if you ignore my first piece of advice, you'll be OK. It just might not be the most fun brew day you've ever had. Repeatedly stuck mashes and extra-long brew days can be pretty stressful.

Either way, you'll be alright. And what do I know? I'm just a home brewer like yourself.

 

[cokronk]

I can do 2 mashes to get where I need to be. I've brewed all grain with a friend previously, this will just be my first on my own.

 

[cokronk]

I don't know WTF I'm doing.

The measurements for 25lbs of grain comes to about 7.8 gallons of water. This is for 10 gallons of beer which should require about 12 gallons of wort pre boil volume.

If the wort ends up at 1.045 OG with the recipe calling for 3 lbs of candi sugar, how in the hell is this supposed to end up at 10 gallons of wort at the recipe's OG of 1.075-1.076 for fermentation?

I'm not finding anything that really describes how this works. Everything says use 1.25 gallons per lb grain. Is that 1.25 gallons per lb for the mash and then for the sparge for a total of 15.6 pre boil gallons? That's way too much.

Are there any sites or reading out there that I can look through to find out how this is supposed to work?

 

[Homercidal]

The 1.25 quarts per pound is for the mash only. You can then sparge with whatever amount of water remains to hit your volume.

Obviously there will be a limit on how much grain and water you can put in your MLT and therefore a limit on how much gravity you can get at that volume.

If worse comes to worse, you could do 2 mashes, or boil longer, or add extract (It will be ok, I promise). Lots of options.

I think you should post the recipe on here and give someone a chance to run it through their software. I'll run 25 lbs of malt through and see what I can get. I think it will be tough to hit that gravity and 10 gallons too.

 

[Homercidal]

My BS estimate calls for almost 9 gallons of water for the mash and 2 rounds of 3.75 gallons for the sparge.

Honestly, I can't see fitting 25 lbs. of grain and 9 gallons of water in a 10 gallon tun. I thought BS would alert me if the volume exceeded the tun limits, but I may be wrong.

I think there is a website out there that can tell you what your tun limit is, just have to find it.

 

[Homercidal]

Green Bay Rackers--Mash Calculators

I thought Booby_M had a size calculator, but the link is gone.

This one shows that if you mash at 1.25 ratio the mash will fit in a volume of 9.81 gallons of space. With the other stuff in there, it might not all fit (I don't know if the cooler manufacturer uses the raised portion of the lid in it's description of cooler size...)

if you mashed at 1 ratio then you only need 8.25 gallons of space, which should mean it will fit.

If you are using a lot of wheat in this recipe though, mashing thick will most likely cause a problem with the sparge sticking, since it will be thicker and less able to flow.

 

[crackhead7]

BS will but it is on the brew sheet that is meant to print out

 

[cokronk]

I'll post up the recipe.

If you keep sparging though, won't the running be lesser and lesser gravity content?

 

[crackhead7]

I'll post up the recipe.

If you keep sparging though, won't the running be lesser and lesser gravity content?

theoreticlly yes, but you want a dilute wort so that when you boil and it concentrates you hit your desired gravity.

 

[crackhead7]

i can tell you from experience that max capacity of a 10 gal bev cooler MLT at 1.25qts/lb is in the neighborhood of 22-23 lbs and thats pushing it. For me at 75% eff. i cant get a 12.5 gal preboil wort over 1.06 straight out of the tun. he is going to have to reduce the grist ratio, and as you said wheat would def. complicate matters.

 

[je52rm]

Green Bay Rackers--Mash Calculators

I thought Booby_M had a size calculator, but the link is gone.

This one shows that if you mash at 1.25 ratio the mash will fit in a volume of 9.81 gallons of space. With the other stuff in there, it might not all fit (I don't know if the cooler manufacturer uses the raised portion of the lid in it's description of cooler size...)

if you mashed at 1 ratio then you only need 8.25 gallons of space, which should mean it will fit.

If you are using a lot of wheat in this recipe though, mashing thick will most likely cause a problem with the sparge sticking, since it will be thicker and less able to flow.

.08 + (mash thickness (qts/lb) / 4) x total lbs grain = total volume in gallons

example:

.08 + (1.25 / 4) x 25 lbs. = 9.8125 gallons total (grain + water) VOLUME

I had another thread already going about the amount of volume that a lb. of grain has when added to water. Basically grain has approx. a volume of .08 gallons per lb.

 

[ajf]

Green Bay Rackers--Mash Calculators

I thought Booby_M had a size calculator, but the link is gone.

I already posted that link.

I'm not sure that Bobby_M would appreciate being renamed as Booby_M.

-a.