Need help with a Russian Imperial Stout on Oak Cubes

[luckybeagle]

I brewed an OG 1.091 > FG 1.021 (ABV: 9.19%) Russian Imperial Stout two weeks ago to the day. It finished fermentation in about 9 days in my temp controlled fermentation chamber (67F), so I added 1 ounce of American Medium Toast oak cubes and a tablespoon of the Jim Beam I had it soaking in since brewday to the carboy (primary). I tasted a sample on day 14 (about 4 days with oak) and cannot perceive any real oak flavors yet.

I am more than happy to wait a month or two for the oak to impart flavor, but I'm also nervous about keeping the beer on the yeast cake for that long. Should I rack to secondary onto fresh (boiled) oak cubes for longer bulk conditioning? If so, how much does temperature become a factor since fermentation is completed? Can I do it at room temp instead of the 67F I was fermenting at? Or should I just leave everything in primary and not worry about the extended contact time with the yeast cake? I'd really like to brew another beer if I can keep it at room temp as my ferm. fridge is only good for one carboy.

Any suggestions/advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

 

[MaxStout]

It will take a couple months for the oak to infuse into the beer. Keep it in primary. Don't rack to secondary, as the autolysis risk isn't an issue at home brew conditions. It's been long-debunked. Many brewers have kept their beers on the cake for 6+ months without any noticeable off-flavors. I don't know what room temp is for you, but shouldn't be a problem if it's not too warm, now that the yeast have done their work.

 

[luckybeagle]

It will take a couple months for the oak to infuse into the beer. Keep it in primary. Don't rack to secondary, as the autolysis risk isn't an issue at home brew conditions. It's been long-debunked. Many brewers have kept their beers on the cake for 6+ months without any noticeable off-flavors. I don't know what room temp is for you, but shouldn't be a problem if it's not too warm, now that the yeast have done their work.

Great advice and exactly the information I was looking for! Thank you very much. I'll relocate the carboy to my daughter's closet (hehe) and let it ride a while, tasting weekly. Should stay about 68 in there year-round. On to the next brew!

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I am not sure I am an expert on the topic...unless buying a bag of cubes and thinking about doing a wood aged stout counts...but 1 oz seems like a very small amount for a 5 gal batch. I thought around 4 oz of cubes was more common.

 

[Garage12brewing]

I brewed an Imperial Stout with oak CHIP last year using 2oz for 10gallons and the taste is too intense. I guess the chip gives a stronger flavor compared to cubes.... if you want to get more oak flavor and quicker try to add maybe 1oz of chip to your fermentor.

 

[luckybeagle]

I think a combination of cubes and chips might be nice, maybe a small amount of chips added toward the end of bulk conditioning so that they don't overpower the beer.

I've had the cubes in there for about 17 days now. I tasted it at week 2 and started perceiving some oak. Rather than calling this a Bourbon barrel aged/barrel simulated RIS, I might just call it an Oaked Imperial to get away from the high bar of simulating true barrel aged flavors.

It seems to have gotten heavier in the mouthfeel and some of the roastiness also seems to have died down. I was really concerned that it would A) be too watery with my low FG of 1.02ish and B) be too roasty/coffeelike/not at all sweet with 0.75# roasted barley and 0.25# black malt in the grain bill. I don't think either will be the case in the finished product.

Not exactly how long I'm going to let this one ride for. I've got a closet full of my favorite beers so I'm not anxiously wanting to bottle this one up to have something to drink like I have been with previous batches. It's also 95F outside... who wants to sip on a RIS in that weather?

My wife thinks I should rack a gallon or so to another carboy on top of some split vanilla beans for a few days. Do you think that would be a nice flavor compliment to a roasty, oaky, slightly bourbony RIS? OR too much going on?

 

[luckybeagle]

I brewed this beer about 40 days ago and have had bourbon soaked oak cubes sitting in the carboy for about 4 weeks now. It's definitely oaky, but also quite roasty and not at all sweet. It seems like it's missing something (coconut, hazelnut, vanilla, etc). Was wondering if there is a way to sweeten it at this stage without A) creating bottle bombs or B) overdoing it. I've heard lactose adds body but not sweetness, and that it's easy to overdo with stevia... thoughts?

 

[brownni5]

If I were you, I'd wait it out. Big stouts can take time to round out. Carbonation might also make a big difference.

Vanilla can be wonderful in a RIS - that's about all I taste in Goose Island Bourbon County, but I assume that's from the barrel and not actual vanilla. You could try beans for sure.

 

[gnef]

If you keg, and since fermentation is done, I'd recommend just racking into a keg and oaking in there.

When I oak a beer or mead, I am of the thought of using a little bit of oak for the life of the keg, so I don't add too much oak, 1-1.5 ounces sounds about right for 5 gallons of a really big beer, typically over 10%, maybe a bit more if I get upwards of 14% or so and there is enough body to hold up to the oaking.

The reason why I like doing it this way, is I believe you get a more complex exctraction from the oak. It is documented that the compounds extract at different rates and it does depend on surface area. The chips will get you the big oak presence, but not much else. The cubes are what I use (I also have a jack daniels barrel for a solera project, but it is only for that), and if you want vanilla and other more complex flavors from the oak, it simply takes time, which is good, in my mind.

There are many ways to oak though, so do some research and figure out what works best for you after this experience!

 

[brownni5]

I recently had a home brewed RIS with Bourbon and oak in the keg. It was an oak bomb. I don't think oaking in the keg is a great idea. Could've been too much oak - I didn't ask.

 

[gnef]

I recently had a home brewed RIS with Bourbon and oak in the keg. It was an oak bomb. I don't think oaking in the keg is a great idea. Could've been too much oak - I didn't ask.

It is definitely easy to overoak if you aren't careful! Particularly if you use chips. If you use cubes, spirals, or stave sticks, the surface area to volume ratio is better, and it can stay in the keg for longer.

It is definitely important to keep all that in mind when thinking of how much to add, and what format to add, and to taste often if you are experimenting.

Again, I personally do the small mass of oak for a longer period of time, and I've even thought about staggered oak additions, like refreshing a bit of new oak after a year or so. I do age some of my beers for a long time though - one of my barleywines that I recently just finished was 11 years old!

 

[couchsending]

This is the best resource I’ve ever stumbled upon for homebrewing with oak. About half way through they move from discussing brewing beer with wine yeast to oak. Honestly the whole episode is fascinating

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/post1888/

 

[kh54s10]

I used 4 ounces of oak chips in my RIS. It took a Pint of Jim Beam to cover the chips. When finished bulk aging, about 1 1/2 to 2 months, I tasted it and described it as "drinking a tree"... I bottled it and tried one a month for about 6 months. The oak was definitely strong but mellowed with age. At about 9 months I would say the flavor peaked, and I finished the last one about a year later. The oak flavor stayed strong for the entire time, though as I said it did mellow.

I would suggest bottling unless you have plenty of kegging space. I would not want to tie up a keg for almost 2 years. (or even longer)!

 

[CascadesBrewer]

This is the best resource I’ve ever stumbled upon for homebrewing with oak. About half way through they move from discussing brewing beer with wine yeast to oak. Honestly the whole episode is fascinating

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/post1888/

Only 3 hours and 56 minutes long? I guess they could not even come up with 4 hours of material?? I might have to give it a listen.

 

[couchsending]

Only 3 hours and 56 minutes long? I guess they could not even come up with 4 hours of material?? I might have to give it a listen.

It’s definitely the most interesting Session I’ve ever listened to... and I’ve listen to a lot of them. Some fascinating stuff from a man who knows what he’s talking about

 

[CascadesBrewer]

It’s definitely the most interesting Session I’ve ever listened to... and I’ve listen to a lot of them. Some fascinating stuff from a man who knows what he’s talking about

Got through it in a few sessions over the weekend. Both the discussion on blending beer and wine yeasts and the section on wood made me feel like I know very little about brewing.

My club has a wood beer category for the December meeting and I have been thinking about a Wood Aged Oatmeal Stout using some Medium Toast Hungarian Cubes I picked up...I think I am on target. I was surprised that the guy is using around 1 oz and only aging for a few weeks.

 

[beer-me-now]

I personally haven't had any luck with bourbon soaked oak cubes in beer giving me even the slightest barrel aged flavor I was looking for and I really did try.

Best barrel aged beer I have made so far was using a new/fresh 5 liter oak barrel from Amazon (~$50) which I filled with cheap bourbon and let sit for 2 months. I emptied the bourbon from the barrel and filled it with my 10.4% chocolate vanilla stout (Ten-Fidy clone with cocoa nibs and vanilla beans) and let the beer sit for 6 weeks. Absolutely amazed with the results but then had to spend MORE money buying a mini keg to carbonate the beer with.

A little expensive up front but the cost will even itself out since I can use the barrel and keg over and over again lol

After removing the above stout from the barrel, I cleaned it out and then filled it with cheap Brandy which has now been sitting in the barrel for about 3 months. I'll dump the Brandy any day now and fill it with my 9.7% English Barleywine. I'm going to play around with CBC1 yeast on this batch before bottling and see if I can bottle condition.