Need free beer? Start a competition!

[Warnski]

What is the best way possible to get a hold of a bunch of free beer? Hold your own beer competition! People will line up to hand you six packs of their painstakingly crafted, favorite homebrew. All they ask in return is some notes on what you think of it.
It seems silly to me. I do understand that the home brewer is always in search of improving their craft, but in many cases beer judges are not the best source of reliable information (conflicting information seems to be quite common). The only positive thing I can see is the competition itself, and being able to claim first prize. But the real winners are the judges, who get to hang out all weekend, sipping fine beer on the cheap. This all is only my opinion, (and I would like to hear what others think) but for me, I am over competitions and I will just stick with brewing for and receiving feedback from my friends, family, and of course, my local brew club.

Let me know why, or why not, you think it is worth it to enter beer competitions

 

[Psylocide]

Looks to me like somebody didn't score too well last time out...

 

[drainbamage]

From what I've heard from people who have judged competitions, while there is a lot of good beer, there is a also a lot of not-so-good beer. You might get the people who have crafted the perfect recipe over months or years of trial and error, but you also get every noob who did a couple Mr. Beer kits and thinks they're hot s**t, or the ones who just started making their own recipes and are looking for honest feedback on what they're doing wrong.

 

[unionrdr]

Kinda makes me wish I'd could've entered some competitions just to see what really goes on, etc. This stuff would be great fodder for the 2nd homebrewing book I just wrote some more of.

 

[Warnski]

Honest feedback, that is a good point. Your friends definitelly may not give you what they really think.

 

[Wynne-R]

But the real winners are the judges, who get to hang out all weekend, sipping fine beer on the cheap.

Obviously, the OP has never been a judge.

The fine beers are the ones that win. The losers go from undrinkable to pretty good.

Volunteer. Please. If it’s such a sweet deal, why is it always so hard to get judges?

 

[imasickboy]

The only problem with competition is that your beer is being judged against strict style guidelines. It's not being judged on it's overall merit. If you're not trying to brew to style, you're hosed. Or in the specialty beer category, with a million other beers, where you're probably hosed also.

Comps can be good, depending what you're trying to accomplish when you brew. If you're just trying to make good beer, without regards to style guidelines, then comps are indeed useless.

 

[Warnski]

Definitelly no shortage of judges in this area.

 

[madscientist451]

My last brew will be going into a competition in a few weeks and I'm looking forward to the feedback. Beer judges aren't perfect, and everyone has different tastes and likes/dislikes. But getting others impressions of what you are doing is a good thing.
I was in a rush and had some problems on my brew day, but I'm going to enter it anyway and see what happens.

 

[Phunhog]

I have always thought the same thing! Especially with some of the larger comps where it is not uncommon for beers to score in the high 30's and not place. Heck THAT should be a gift for the judges.....let them pick and choose what beers they want to take home. The second and third place beers don't go to the BOS so there should be an extra bottle. A judge could easily walk away with a free 12 pack of good variety of very good/excellent beer.

 

[DU99]

if you want to get to try other's beer organise a beer swap..12 people 12 bottles of beer.Comp's here in australia you only required a 26fl oz bottle..the stewards get to sample the leftover's..

 

[Hello]

If you don't value the judge's opinion then it's probably best not to enter. If you do, look for those scored by BJCP judges. Also, I've never had to give an entire six pack for comps. That is just ridiculous.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Obviously, the OP has never been a judge.

The fine beers are the ones that win. The losers go from undrinkable to pretty good.

Volunteer. Please. If it’s such a sweet deal, why is it always so hard to get judges?

This.

The last comp I judged had very few experienced judges. They ALWAYS need more. And the only way to become an experienced judge is to judge.

Seriously. Volunteer.

And judging is a large amount of work, especially if you do it right. If you just write a half-assed sheet with a couple words per section, then yeah, good for you, it's a cake walk. But when you actually fill out a sheet properly and try to provide useful and honest quality feedback, it's a lot of work. And yeah, more often than not, the beer is on the mediocre side. Out of any given flight, I might have 1 beer that's really good, 2 or 3 that are good but nothing jaw dropping, 3 that are riddled with severe off-flavors (chlorophenols run rampant) that I would have dumped were they my beer, and then 6 that are just "meh".

 

[Qhrumphf]

If you don't value the judge's opinion then it's probably best not to enter. If you do, look for those scored by BJCP judges. Also, I've never had to give an entire six pack for comps. That is just ridiculous.

I haven't entered em, but I've seen a few where you qualify with a couple bottles, and if you advance to the next round you need to provide a whole case. Definitely not the norm though. I wouldn't want to fork over that much beer. All the ones I've entered it's 2-3 bottles.

 

[VT-NAV]

What is the best way possible to get a hold of a bunch of free beer? Hold your own beer competition! People will line up to hand you six packs of their painstakingly crafted, favorite homebrew.

So basically, Scientology meets Homebrewing?

I can see the tasting notes now: excess Diacetyl, likely due to overabundance of body thetans within the brewer.

 

[Braufessor]

Sounds like a great deal to me........all a judge needs to do is give up their weekend, their gas money, and money for a hotel room...... and in exchange for that, they get a few homebrews that are often probably not as good as the ones they can brew themselves.

I think you are onto something here OP - probably just a matter of time before 1000's of people find out about this great scam and there will be overstaffed competitions springing up all over the place.

 

[Yooper]

Sounds like a great deal to me........all a judge needs to do is give up their weekend, their gas money, and money for a hotel room...... and in exchange for that, they get a few homebrews that are often probably not as good as the ones they can brew themselves.

I think you are onto something here OP - probably just a matter of time before 1000's of people find out about this great scam and there will be overstaffed competitions springing up all over the place.

Oh, and not only that- but we get to pay for our own travel expenses to even take exams, as I did. I had to pay for the entrance exam, then pay for the tasting exam, and drive to Minneapolis 6 months later for that privilege. The hotel alone was over $200. The exam was $60, I believe. Gas was about $100, and food and incidentals was another chunk- plus it took a whole weekend since it's a very long drive.

My volunteer judging has taken me to Cincinnati, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, and Philadelphia. Next trip is San Diego. Since the judging is not paid for, I have the privilege of paying thousands of dollars to become a certified BJCP judge as well as judging competitions.

The beers in the National Homebrew Competition finals, of which a flight is about 8, are all excellent. I believe we had a 2 ounce pour of each.

In exchange, I spent 15 minute per beer writing a complete score sheet, along with tips. I of course memorized the entire BJCP scoring guidelines to do this. I can travel to Minneapolis again next year to improve my tasting score if I choose to get a higher BJCP certification- at my own expense, of course.

The vast majority of the beers submitted to competition are not great, and in fact many are problematic and brewers want feedback on what's wrong with them. Some are awful to the point of being undrinkable.

Yep. You're on to us BJCP judges. We spend thousands of dollars in travel, examinations, hotels, sensory training and such- so that we can get 12 ounces of someone's crappy beer. We've been found out.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Sounds like a great deal to me........all a judge needs to do is give up their weekend, their gas money, and money for a hotel room...... and in exchange for that, they get a few homebrews that are often probably not as good as the ones they can brew themselves.

I think you are onto something here OP - probably just a matter of time before 1000's of people find out about this great scam and there will be overstaffed competitions springing up all over the place.

Psh, I just skip all that money stuff and get the contestants to send me their session ipa right to my door. Ups is my dd!

 

[Yooper]

Psh, I just skip all that money stuff and get the contestants to send me their session ipa right to my door. Ups is my dd!

Indeed! What was I thinking, taking years of testing and training for the BJCP exam?!?! And then to consider becoming a National Judge after that?!?!

For some reason, people who should know better will ship beer, for FREE, to your door via UPS if you just seem like you know about beer. It's a scam I wish I would have thought of years ago!

I will say this, though- Hooray for THURSDAY!

 

[Braufessor]

Indeed! What was I thinking, taking years of testing and training for the BJCP exam?!?! And then to consider becoming a National Judge after that?!?!

For some reason, people who should know better will ship beer, for FREE, to your door via UPS if you just seem like you know about beer. It's a scam I wish I would have thought of years ago!

I will say this, though- Hooray for THURSDAY!

Damn. I knew there was something fishy about you two

 

[Phunhog]

So here is what I still don't understand about comps. The judges/stewards/organizers are all volunteers, in most cases you "win" a cheap medal or ribbon...best case is some sort of donated homebrewing related prize, and my scoresheets are scanned and emailed to me. So why does it cost between 7-10 dollars per entry for most BJCP comps? A larger comp could easily take in 5K in entry fees alone. Does it really cost 5K to store bottles for a few weeks, rent some sort of judging room, supplies, and feed the judges some sort of lunch(maybe), and then mail out scoresheets(all done with volunteers). I only enter a few comps a year but I have never understood where my entry fee goes. I have never entered a comp that says something along the lines of " A fundraiser for XYZ Homebrew Club".

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Indeed! What was I thinking, taking years of testing and training for the BJCP exam?!?! And then to consider becoming a National Judge after that?!?!

For some reason, people who should know better will ship beer, for FREE, to your door via UPS if you just seem like you know about beer. It's a scam I wish I would have thought of years ago!

I will say this, though- Hooray for THURSDAY!

Thursday? Who cares. Friday is what has got me jazzed. Brown santa is bringing me free beer.

Damn. I knew there was something fishy about you two

Ha! Us folk down here in the hot country got it going on! It was 75 or some nonsense today. SIPA is what I need!

 

[sandyeggoxj]

So here is what I still don't understand about comps. The judges/stewards/organizers are all volunteers, in most cases you "win" a cheap medal or ribbon...best case is some sort of donated homebrewing related prize, and my scoresheets are scanned and emailed to me. So why does it cost between 7-10 dollars per entry for most BJCP comps? A larger comp could easily take in 5K in entry fees alone. Does it really cost 5K to store bottles for a few weeks, rent some sort of judging room, supplies, and feed the judges some sort of lunch(maybe), and then mail out scoresheets(all done with volunteers). I only enter a few comps a year but I have never understood where my entry fee goes. I have never entered a comp that says something along the lines of " A fundraiser for XYZ Homebrew Club".

I can't help ya. But I can tell you that nothing is ever that simple... send and email off to aha or someone else who organizes such an event and see what their input is. It will surely be better than a bunch of halfwits cooking who-knows-what in their garage!

 

[Orthobrewsky]

I entered my first comp. last summer (Alabama Brew Off) and had pretty much the opposite impression from the OP. Five bucks per entry, $1000 award for BOS, very nice medals, and a free pint of craft beer at the pub where they had the award presentation. They ended up with a little less than 250 entries, which comes to less than $1250, so I don't think they could have done it without some sponsors. I was well aware of certain minor flaws, even in my winning entries, and the judges picked up on them quite accurately. For example, my Maibock was a little "boozy" and "overly bittered" yet won gold in a field of 11 bocks, so there were probably some pretty lousy bocks to taste in there. I won 3rd in a field of 21 American Ales with a beer I thought was pretty mediocre, but I had some around at the time, so I thought "what the heck? I'll submit it." I really didn't get the impression the judges were sitting back basking in deliciousness all day.

I really enjoyed meeting many of the judges and other entrants at the awards banquet and certainly got the impression the judges were generally very competent folks who love the hobby enough to put in a rather hard day of work carefully judging beers. I live far from the big city and don't have a local homebrew club, so I thought it was a nice experience just to meet other homebrewers and be involved in the event.

 

[Talgrath]

So here is what I still don't understand about comps. The judges/stewards/organizers are all volunteers, in most cases you "win" a cheap medal or ribbon...best case is some sort of donated homebrewing related prize, and my scoresheets are scanned and emailed to me. So why does it cost between 7-10 dollars per entry for most BJCP comps? A larger comp could easily take in 5K in entry fees alone. Does it really cost 5K to store bottles for a few weeks, rent some sort of judging room, supplies, and feed the judges some sort of lunch(maybe), and then mail out scoresheets(all done with volunteers). I only enter a few comps a year but I have never understood where my entry fee goes. I have never entered a comp that says something along the lines of " A fundraiser for XYZ Homebrew Club".

Simply put, most of it goes towards permits and location and maybe (depending on state laws) things like an ambulance in case someone needs medical attention. You'll need an event/special occasion liquor license for the judging day(s) in most states. You probably also need a general event permit from the city. You probably also need some form of event insurance in case someone dies or is injured during your event. Depending on how complex your states' liquor laws are, you may need to hire an attorney to get everything in order in a reasonable amount of time. Engraved trophies, depending on exactly how fancy they are, may be as much as $100 each. If the competition is through the AHA or something similar you need to pay a fee to declare it so. Finally, things like tables, tents and chairs may need to be rented or purchased. $5,000 may seem like a lot, but trust me it goes fast when setting up for an event.

 

[Qhrumphf]

So here is what I still don't understand about comps. The judges/stewards/organizers are all volunteers, in most cases you "win" a cheap medal or ribbon...best case is some sort of donated homebrewing related prize, and my scoresheets are scanned and emailed to me. So why does it cost between 7-10 dollars per entry for most BJCP comps? A larger comp could easily take in 5K in entry fees alone. Does it really cost 5K to store bottles for a few weeks, rent some sort of judging room, supplies, and feed the judges some sort of lunch(maybe), and then mail out scoresheets(all done with volunteers). I only enter a few comps a year but I have never understood where my entry fee goes. I have never entered a comp that says something along the lines of " A fundraiser for XYZ Homebrew Club".

Simply put, most of it goes towards permits and location and maybe (depending on state laws) things like an ambulance in case someone needs medical attention. You'll need an event/special occasion liquor license for the judging day(s) in most states. You probably also need a general event permit from the city. You probably also need some form of event insurance in case someone dies or is injured during your event. Depending on how complex your states' liquor laws are, you may need to hire an attorney to get everything in order in a reasonable amount of time. Engraved trophies, depending on exactly how fancy they are, may be as much as $100 each. If the competition is through the AHA or something similar you need to pay a fee to declare it so. Finally, things like tables, tents and chairs may need to be rented or purchased. $5,000 may seem like a lot, but trust me it goes fast when setting up for an event.

I was just going to respond "Yes. Yes it does". But he beat me to it.

If you've ever put on any event with a significant number of people over a couple days (beer related or not) you know that little things add up very, very fast.

I'm sure just the photocopying of blank scoresheets is several hundred dollars (or more) for a small competition, let alone a large one, let alone shipping them back out. Let alone copying guidelines. Let alone all the other paperwork. Let alone renting tables and chairs. Let alone renting space and renting cold storage. Let alone food for judges. And then the ribbons/medals/other prizes.

 

[KD28]

Personally, I could'nt care less what somebody else thinks of my beer.
I started making beer (and wine) to suit MY own taste buds. The stores sell stuff for everyone else.

I'm sure some of mine could be better, but its what I really like. Really gripes me when someone who has never drank anything other then Busch light or Coors light takes a drink of a home brew and says "not bad".
Those kinda people also BUY their jerky and sausage from the store.
I try and stay calm and remember to say something nice like
"Gee, thanks, Bud. Coming from you that means absolutely nothing to me".

 

[Hello]

I haven't entered em, but I've seen a few where you qualify with a couple bottles, and if you advance to the next round you need to provide a whole case. Definitely not the norm though. I wouldn't want to fork over that much beer. All the ones I've entered it's 2-3 bottles.

True, for NHC or something. For a local comp, I haven't had to give up much beer. It was requested that I provide a case for a benefit that was also a comp, but that was about it.

I'm not sure I can say that I don't care what people think about my beer because I do value feedback. I want to get better and if that means I have to find people who don't know me to judge my beer then I'll enter. Yes, I like most of my beers and people who get beer from me like it...maybe because it is free, but I value the learning process of home brewing and part of that is finding out if my process is flawed to the point where I am producing beers that aren't right. Not right to style, just not right in taste.

 

[Braufessor]

I think folks participate in competitions for all kinds of different reasons, ranging from pure competitiveness to simple curiosity. Some want feedback on beers from people they don't know. Some are trying to improve techniques or trouble shoot a problem. I know I started entering competitions because I wanted feedback on beer I brewed and I did not want to hear "It is really good" from friends and family regardless of what I put in the glass. I think anyone who enters a comp ultimately hopes they score well/place/win.

I agree that people should ultimately brew for themselves. And, when it comes down to it, I brew the beers I like to drink. I would never brew a beer "just to enter it." That said - the kind of beer I like best, is good beer. I love IPA's. The thing I like better than IPA's...... better IPA's. Same with all the styles I enjoy. I feel like I have gotten some useful feedback I could apply to my brewing over the last couple years. As my beers have gotten better, they have done better in competitions - but, more importantly, I like them more. I can tell those who drink them like them more. Not that they are perfect or anything like that - but I feel like they are constantly improving and becoming more consistent as I learn about the process.

In regard to the money for entry, etc...... I have never helped run or work at a competition. I have no doubt at all that most of the money gets used up on facilities, awards, some food for the judges, supplies, etc. And, you know what - I really hope that any well run competition has some money left over so that the brew club that took all the time and effort to put it on can use it in some way for their club. Maybe they want to defray the cost of travel to NHC. Maybe they want to buy some sort of serving set up for their club. Maybe they want to invest in educational opportunities for beginning brewers, or take a trip to check out a brewery somewhere. Maybe invest in off-flavor testing kits to educate your members...... whatever. I hope all of you guys running these competitions have some money left over for your club - I can't even imagine how much work it is to run a competition (run it well) for 400-1000 entries. If you can do something nice for your club at the end - I think that is great.

 

[Yooper]

........................... And, you know what - I really hope that any well run competition has some money left over so that the brew club that took all the time and effort to put it on can use it in some way for their club. Maybe they want to defray the cost of travel to NHC. Maybe they want to buy some sort of serving set up for their club. Maybe they want to invest in educational opportunities for beginning brewers, or take a trip to check out a brewery somewhere. Maybe invest in off-flavor testing kits to educate your members...... whatever. I hope all of you guys running these competitions have some money left over for your club - I can't even imagine how much work it is to run a competition (run it well) for 400-1000 entries. If you can do something nice for your club at the end - I think that is great.

I've run two very large competitions- and we were lucky enough after buying the ribbons, copying the scoresheets and flight sheets, paying the BJCP fees, etc to break even. And, since they were HBT competitions, I was available for all sorts of criticism.

A well-run competition takes a ton of planning, and one of the things that was surprising is how much trash it generated! The guys who received the beer to store had tons of packaging materials to dispose of, in addition to receiving 600 bottles of beer to store properly. Getting full sized fridges into place, tables, chairs, tasting cups, water, crackers, bread, paper, pencils, labels, and then labeling the entries with the information and so on, as well as organizing the flights is a full-time undertaking for a couple of weekends.

Luckily, most homebrew suppliers (Wyeast, White Labs, Briess, etc) will offer free prizes for competitions if you ask so even in a competition that doesn't quite break even, we can still give away some prizes to winners.

Judges all do their best to provide helpful feedback as we are instructed by the BJCP, and we drink a lot of bad beer to provide that feedback.

I will say that if anybody is against competitions, that they should definitely NOT enter as they will not appreciate the feedback or the skill level of the judges, as noted by the OP. It's easy to be critical when you don't understand the process.

 

[Warnski]

I entered my first comp. last summer (Alabama Brew Off) and had pretty much the opposite impression from the OP. Five bucks per entry, $1000 award for BOS, very nice medals, and a free pint of craft beer at the pub where they had the award presentation. They ended up with a little less than 250 entries, which comes to less than $1250, so I don't think they could have done it without some sponsors. I was well aware of certain minor flaws, even in my winning entries, and the judges picked up on them quite accurately. For example, my Maibock was a little "boozy" and "overly bittered" yet won gold in a field of 11 bocks, so there were probably some pretty lousy bocks to taste in there. I won 3rd in a field of 21 American Ales with a beer I thought was pretty mediocre, but I had some around at the time, so I thought "what the heck? I'll submit it." I really didn't get the impression the judges were sitting back basking in deliciousness all day.

I really enjoyed meeting many of the judges and other entrants at the awards banquet and certainly got the impression the judges were generally very competent folks who love the hobby enough to put in a rather hard day of work carefully judging beers. I live far from the big city and don't have a local homebrew club, so I thought it was a nice experience just to meet other homebrewers and be involved in the event.

Now this is more along the lines of a brew competition that I could get on board with! I will keep my eye out for this kind of setup, thanks!

 

[Spartan1979]

Let's see, I spend approximately 7 hours at a competition on a Saturday. I "get" to taste 3 ounces or so of approximately 16 different beers or about 4 12 oz bottles worth. If I'm lucky, 1 of those 16 beers will score 40 or more. A couple will be good, a few more decent, a couple more drinkable at best and there's alway at least one that would cause me to stop homebrewing if I had made it. It's a great deal. Oh, yeah there's a sandwich from Wal-mart as a free lunch.

Remind me again, why I'm doing this.

BTW, I'm a BJCP National Judge.

 

[Spartan1979]

So here is what I still don't understand about comps. The judges/stewards/organizers are all volunteers, in most cases you "win" a cheap medal or ribbon...best case is some sort of donated homebrewing related prize, and my scoresheets are scanned and emailed to me. So why does it cost between 7-10 dollars per entry for most BJCP comps? A larger comp could easily take in 5K in entry fees alone. Does it really cost 5K to store bottles for a few weeks, rent some sort of judging room, supplies, and feed the judges some sort of lunch(maybe), and then mail out scoresheets(all done with volunteers). I only enter a few comps a year but I have never understood where my entry fee goes. I have never entered a comp that says something along the lines of " A fundraiser for XYZ Homebrew Club".

I run our club's competition. We get around 325 entries. Out of the entry fee, we pay for breakfast and lunch for the judges, stewards and staff. We have done dinner in the past. We have to buy medals and then mail them out to the people who are from out of town. We have to have scoresheets, etc, printed, buy cups for tasting, pay BJCP a small fee, rent chairs.

We probably clear around $1000. It's our biggest fundraiser of the year, besides dues. Just my time is close to 80 hours. With everybody's time, we probably average a $2 a hour profit. It's probably not worth it.

 

[Phunhog]

I run our club's competition. We get around 325 entries. Out of the entry fee, we pay for breakfast and lunch for the judges, stewards and staff. We have done dinner the past. We have to buy medals and then mail them out to the people who are from out of town. We have to have scoresheets, etc, printed, buy cups for tasting, pay BJCP a small fee, rent chairs.

We probably clear around $1000. It's our biggest fundraiser of the year, besides dues. Just my time is close to 80 hours. With everybody's time, we probably average a $2 a hour profit. It probably not worth it.

I am glad to hear your club is making some money (hard earned!) out of the deal. Up until this thread I had no idea that a comp had to pay the BJCP a fee. How much is it? Is it based on the number of entrants or is it a flat fee? Also since you are a National judge I assume you have been judging for a number of years. Is the quality of beers you are judging getting better? It would seem that with all the knowledge out there plus advanced homebrewing equipment the quality of beers would be very high. I for one won't even bother to enter a beer in a comp unless I think it could score at least in the high 30's and win.

 

[Spartan1979]

I am glad to hear your club is making some money (hard earned!) out of the deal. Up until this thread I had no idea that a comp had to pay the BJCP a fee. How much is it? Is it based on the number of entrants or is it a flat fee? Also since you are a National judge I assume you have been judging for a number of years. Is the quality of beers you are judging getting better? It would seem that with all the knowledge out there plus advanced homebrewing equipment the quality of beers would be very high. I for one won't even bother to enter a beer in a comp unless I think it could score at least in the high 30's and win.

As I said, it's a small fee, I think $30. You pay it up front, so it doesn't matter how many entries you get. It's just one of the many small things you need for a comp that add up.

Are the beers getting better? Maybe. There are probably less bad beers than there use to be, but not any more outstanding beers. The middle range, beers scoring 30-35 has expanded. But that may also be a function of the size of the competitions getting bigger.

Interestingly, probably the worst beer I ever judged was at the NHC Finals this year. It had a butyric acid infection. It literally smelled like diapers and tasted like puke. It's the first time I ran across that.