Nano brewery startup help!

[NobleExpBeer]

Hello everyone, just wondering if anyone could help me with a project I have going on. Last year I tried to start a beer company using contract brewing and ended up aborting it because the price was too high. Now I want to open a nano brewery, since Massachusetts shot down the bill to force owners of the farmers brewery license to produce 50% of the crops in the beer. If anyone has any information about running a nano brewery or any helpful information at all, please email me at your earliest connivence. Happy holidays and cheers!

 

[jester5120]

this probly isn't exactly what you were looking for but check out ray daniels book "starting your own brewery". it's pricey but it give you so much info and makes you think about stuff you never would have considered

 

[stratslinger]

Also, check out probrewer.com - a heckuva lot more experienced opinions and advice are available there!

 

[buffalobrewer]

You might try pm'ing sigafoos as they are almost ready to fire up the kettles with a nano in Buffalo.

 

[Ramitt]

You might check out the Brew Strong podcasts, they did a few recently about going pro.

 

[nukinfuts29]

This is going to sound harash, but i promise it is for your own good:

You are absolutely positively not ready to go pro if you had to post this thread.

 

[jester5120]

This is going to sound harash, but i promise it is for your own good:

You are absolutely positively not ready to go pro if you had to post this thread.

I kind of agree but the first step of starting something like this is gathering info. Which is exactly what they asked for

 

[nukinfuts29]

No sir, the first step is research. Running any kind of production in this industry requires an incredible amount of ambition and drive. That kind of drive pushes people to dive in and FIND answers and then fill in the gaps with experienced people later on.

The OP reads like "I have no clue, so hand me what I need to know".

 

[gunner65]

No sir, the first step is research. Running any kind of production in this industry requires an incredible amount of ambition and drive. That kind of drive pushes people to dive in and FIND answers and then fill in the gaps with experienced people later on.

The OP reads like "I have no clue, so hand me what I need to know".

I agree reading some of the OPs other posts sounds as if he has never even done an AG batch just partials and extracts I could be wrong but that is how it reads. That is not to offend but I would think you need to get the basics down before going pro. Have you had any of your brews judged at a competitive level? You need feedback to make a product that someone would actually pay for more than once.

As for state laws you will probably find all that you need from your states website. Google that maybe?

Good Luck!

 

[nukinfuts29]

And I know that I seem harsh, but it really is the best thing I can do for him. He will either snap into action and react using my posts as fuel, or he will think I'm an idiot and fail.

 

[itsme6582]

I'm not sure thinking your an idiot has anything to do with how successful a businessman someone can be.

 

[DannPM]

Producing wort is fun but 80% of what makes beer is the fermentation.

 

[nukinfuts29]

I'm not sure thinking your an idiot has anything to do with how successful a businessman someone can be.

What I mean is that rather than understand what I was trying to convey to him, he would ignore it and proceed on his current course, thus ending in failure.

 

[jester5120]

What I mean is that rather than understand what I was trying to convey to him, he would ignore it and proceed on his current course, thus ending in failure.

Since you don't know his knowledge or ability in brewing, suggesting that hell fail if he doesn't take your advice is arrogant and stupid.

 

[nukinfuts29]

It's hardly ignorant, read the OP.

 

[jester5120]

It's hardly ignorant, read the OP.

I've read it several times. I also said you were arrogant not ignorant

 

[nukinfuts29]

I've read it several times. I also said you were arrogant not ignorant

My mistake. Can't really argue with that.

 

[gunner65]

My mistake. Can't really argue with that.

 

[RM-MN]

If I were to decide to start a nano brewery I think the first step would be to amass about $10 million so I would have sufficient capital to start up and keep going for a while as I built business. The second thing I would do is rethink the whole idea and retire to live off the $10 million. The failure rate of startups is very high and many fail from lack of capital and a lot more fail from not understanding what it takes to run a business.

 

[indianaroller]

If you want to work for 80 hours a week (seriously) for 0 dollars then a nanao brewery is for you. Why are you not trying to raise capital for a production brewery?

 

[Phunhog]

As someone who has done a TON of research into starting a nanobrewery I can tell you making beer is the easy part. It is the business end that will ultimately determine if you succeed. That is one reason why my plans are on the back burner. I need to learn a lot more about running a business. You also have to realize that no one really makes any money with a nano, but it can be a springboard to a future brewery. A nano makes a lot of sense that way. Do you want to risk 40k or 400K in a brewery? The other question is are you looking for a career change?

 

[rexbanner]

If you want to work for 80 hours a week (seriously) for 0 dollars then a nanao brewery is for you. Why are you not trying to raise capital for a production brewery?

Is this really true? What is the limit for profitability on brewing beer? I've heard one bbl. Sure, the profits are going to be low, but I'd gladly work 80 hours a week if I could brew, especially in a nanobrew setting where I could brew whatever I wanted.

 

[nukinfuts29]

It's easy to say until you spend some time doing it lol. It takes a truly unique person to make it happen.

 

[Phunhog]

Is this really true? What is the limit for profitability on brewing beer? I've heard one bbl. Sure, the profits are going to be low, but I'd gladly work 80 hours a week if I could brew, especially in a nanobrew setting where I could brew whatever I wanted.

I have heard realistically 15 bbl is the minimum IF you want to actually turn it into a successful business. Nano's are cool but they don't make any money, or very little money. I want to start a nano too but I am lucky because I am not looking for another career. It would be strictly for fun...much like an artist or musician.

 

[Tyrone]

And I know that I seem harsh, but it really is the best thing I can do for him. He will either snap into action and react using my posts as fuel, or he will think I'm an idiot and fail.

WTF?!?

You drinking and posting?!? Nothing you wrote above can be construed as factual based on reality. Gotta love the intertubewebs.... Unless you know the OP personally you don't know his business acumen or brewing level. He asked a question on a forum for help and you came across (at least to me) as a pompous d!ck about whom we also don't know your bonafides.

Cheers!

 

[birvine]

Hello everyone, just wondering if anyone could help me with a project I have going on. Last year I tried to start a beer company using contract brewing and ended up aborting it because the price was too high. Now I want to open a nano brewery, since Massachusetts shot down the bill to force owners of the farmers brewery license to produce 50% of the crops in the beer. If anyone has any information about running a nano brewery or any helpful information at all, please email me at your earliest connivence. Happy holidays and cheers!

First off, good luck on your quest - bringing a dream to fruition can be very fulfilling. That being said, I believe that sometimes some hobby jobs can turn out not as we planned - either not so good or very good.

On the first day of my MBA course we were asked what business was about - answers were the greater good, a great service, helping, etc... Of course, suddenly the obvious donned... make money. Period. All the rest may help you to achieve that, but making money is the goal. Unless it really IS a hobby job and you have piles of money sitting in a bank or a sock and don't need a salary.

Learn. About revenue, expenses, staffing, taxes, regulations and legal issues. I know this is really general, but that is what you must do and MUCH MUCH more. Prepare a business plan and be very complete to see if you can make money. One small example: making an obscure beer you like may make you and your brother happy, but you have to sell a lot of them just to pay the electricity. And then you have to be consistent so that if it catches on you can duplicate it on a regular basis.

Please do not see this as a negative, but as a positive. The idea excites me, for sure, but for the time being, and maybe forever, no thanks (for me).

B

 

[gunner65]

Here you go wiki has it all...

How to Make a Home Brewery a Commercial Nanobrewery Wiki: 11 steps

 

[tektonjp]

I'd gladly work 80 hours a week if I could brew, especially in a nanobrew setting where I could brew whatever I wanted.

It's not simply about brewing what you want to brew. It's about brewing what will sell, unless you've got a hefty thirst for the leftovers.

 

[optimatored]

Hello everyone, just wondering if anyone could help me with a project I have going on. Last year I tried to start a beer company using contract brewing and ended up aborting it because the price was too high. Now I want to open a nano brewery, since Massachusetts shot down the bill to force owners of the farmers brewery license to produce 50% of the crops in the beer. If anyone has any information about running a nano brewery or any helpful information at all, please email me at your earliest connivence. Happy holidays and cheers!

after reading through the posts (a lot of which not helpful and useless), continue to research and research until you feel confident.

Below is good website to read and changed my plans of wanting to open a Nano or even a Pico! There is a link on there where the owner goes through how inefficient it is to run a small brewery... its 15bbl or bust. But it really depends on what YOU want. Good luck.

Sound Brewing Systems, Inc

 

[rebelproud]

And I know that I seem harsh, but it really is the best thing I can do for him. He will either snap into action and react using my posts as fuel, or he will think I'm an idiot and fail.

Part of the research you are talking about IS asking others who may have experience. I've learned more in my life and gotten farther in my career from "who I know" rather than what I know, and learning from people with similar experiences first hand. There is nothing wrong with throwing the line out on this forum to see if someone helpful will jump in while doing independent research at the same time.

Exhausting all options and examining whats under every stone is the best way to be successful. And, if you are trying to tell someone that examining what is under this stone, you are giving bad advice.

You should suggest to the OP that in addition to discussing this here, he or she should research independently as well. But, suggesting that they're not ready because they are searching here, is ignorant and misleading and counterproductive.

 

[Inhiding]

Hello everyone, just wondering if anyone could help me with a project I have going on. Last year I tried to start a beer company using contract brewing and ended up aborting it because the price was too high. Now I want to open a nano brewery, since Massachusetts shot down the bill to force owners of the farmers brewery license to produce 50% of the crops in the beer. If anyone has any information about running a nano brewery or any helpful information at all, please email me at your earliest connivence. Happy holidays and cheers!

Congrats to you on taking the first step, it is a scary one at that. I should know as I am about 6 weeks from getting my TTB license.

First step: Find a building and then check the zoning requirements with county, city etc etc.. I went this route and found several areas in which my nano could proceed in. I needed something in the "Commercial Retail" zoned areas of my town. The TTB requires a place to be rented for about 3 months during the licensing phase, so get the building cleared before you fill out any applications. This will save a lot of time back & forth. Trust me, I went through 3 building before I found my current location.

2nd Step: Check with your Alcohol & Beverage Control office and find out if you can distribute your beer or do you need a middle man. In California, I can retail my beer out in the tasting room, and sell to bars, restaurants, and stores on my own. I can keep most of the profits "in house" regardless of who buys the beer. Find out how long the ABC licensing process is. Ours was about 3 months, same as the TTB, so I had to get them going at the same time.

3rd: Filed a fictitious business statement so I could open a business bank account, and it was needed for the TTB.

4th: Get ready for the TTB paperwork. My application was 40 pages long by the time I sent it to them. Also the redundancy between the fed and state paperwork was a killer (surely there can be some streamlining somewhere).

5th: Get ready to have cash on hand to purchase equipment. A good source is probrewer.com. But you need to act fast and ask for references on the equipment. I was talking to one guy about a 7 bbl system, but he could not provide any references, as he stated once he sold the equipment he didn't follow up anymore. Red flag! He lost a customer with that statement. I chose a smaller system that pro breweries use as a pilot batch system that has consistency from batch to batch. That was KEY! I know I will have to do double brew days, but I feel better about being consistent.

6th: Spend more on the cold side, fermentation vessels & brite tanks, than you think you will need. Several 7 & 10 bbl brewers in the area have a choke point on fermenters, thus limiting them. I am going twice as big for the house beers (8 bbls) and smaller on the rotating beers (not sure about those sizes yet, but probably 4 bbls).

7th: Best way to make a small fortune in a nano is to start with a large fortune. (just seeing if you read this far)

8th: Good luck!! I'm sure there is more to offer. As i think of things i will post more...

Aaron
Cambria Beer Company (soon to be)

 

[Tyrone]

Congrats to you on taking the first step, it is a scary one at that. I should know as I am about 6 weeks from getting my TTA license.

....

Aaron
Cambria Beer Company (soon to be)

Now THAT is constructive feedback!

 

[Weizenwerks]

A brewing business is like any other business. It's 80% business skills and 20% about the product.

 

[nukinfuts29]

Part of the research you are talking about IS asking others who may have experience. I've learned more in my life and gotten farther in my career from "who I know" rather than what I know, and learning from people with similar experiences first hand. There is nothing wrong with throwing the line out on this forum to see if someone helpful will jump in while doing independent research at the same time.

Exhausting all options and examining whats under every stone is the best way to be successful. And, if you are trying to tell someone that examining what is under this stone, you are giving bad advice.

You should suggest to the OP that in addition to discussing this here, he or she should research independently as well. But, suggesting that they're not ready because they are searching here, is ignorant and misleading and counterproductive.

Asking INTELLIGENT and INFORMED questions is part of research. If he had come and asked specific questions indicating any type of personal effort, that would be a different story. He stated that last year he attempted to get into the industry, and had he done research then or since then I doubt his post would have been so generic.

You can all think I'm an a-hole if you want, but how many of you are pro or have tried to go there? It isn't easy. It SUCKS. And the amount of personal effort and investment requires a certain kind of individual, and his original post speaks of uninformed, lazy, etc which won't cut it.

 

[Phunhog]

A brewing business is like any other business. It's 80% business skills and 20% about the product.

+1 I think we all know of successful breweries who make "ho-hum" beer. Not bad but not great either. I want to start a nano but I know that knowing how to start and run a business is just as important as making great beer, maybe even more so.

 

[NobleExpBeer]

I agree reading some of the OPs other posts sounds as if he has never even done an AG batch just partials and extracts I could be wrong but that is how it reads. That is not to offend but I would think you need to get the basics down before going pro. Have you had any of your brews judged at a competitive level? You need feedback to make a product that someone would actually pay for more than once.

As for state laws you will probably find all that you need from your states website. Google that maybe?

Good Luck!

I've been brewing for about 3 years, I feel I have the basic skills, and with a little more research and help I could plan on starting this project in a few years. I'm not trying to open it tomorrow. I have entered contests and average a 42-43 on all of my submissions, so there is potential. Thanks for the help

 

[NobleExpBeer]

As someone who has done a TON of research into starting a nanobrewery I can tell you making beer is the easy part. It is the business end that will ultimately determine if you succeed. That is one reason why my plans are on the back burner. I need to learn a lot more about running a business. You also have to realize that no one really makes any money with a nano, but it can be a springboard to a future brewery. A nano makes a lot of sense that way. Do you want to risk 40k or 400K in a brewery? The other question is are you looking for a career change?

Thanks, I have a solid business background as well as a great business team to help with that part.

 

[NobleExpBeer]

WTF?!?

You drinking and posting?!? Nothing you wrote above can be construed as factual based on reality. Gotta love the intertubewebs.... Unless you know the OP personally you don't know his business acumen or brewing level. He asked a question on a forum for help and you came across (at least to me) as a pompous d!ck about whom we also don't know your bonafides.

Cheers!

Haha thanks, I have an BA in finance and am working in my MBA now

 

[NobleExpBeer]

First off, good luck on your quest - bringing a dream to fruition can be very fulfilling. That being said, I believe that sometimes some hobby jobs can turn out not as we planned - either not so good or very good.

On the first day of my MBA course we were asked what business was about - answers were the greater good, a great service, helping, etc... Of course, suddenly the obvious donned... make money. Period. All the rest may help you to achieve that, but making money is the goal. Unless it really IS a hobby job and you have piles of money sitting in a bank or a sock and don't need a salary.

Learn. About revenue, expenses, staffing, taxes, regulations and legal issues. I know this is really general, but that is what you must do and MUCH MUCH more. Prepare a business plan and be very complete to see if you can make money. One small example: making an obscure beer you like may make you and your brother happy, but you have to sell a lot of them just to pay the electricity. And then you have to be consistent so that if it catches on you can duplicate it on a regular basis.

Please do not see this as a negative, but as a positive. The idea excites me, for sure, but for the time being, and maybe forever, no thanks (for me).

B

Thanks for the help, I've entered contests and average scores in the high 40's, so I hope some people like it! My team and I are working on business plans now, we are hoping to have it up in a few years

 

[NobleExpBeer]

after reading through the posts (a lot of which not helpful and useless), continue to research and research until you feel confident.

Below is good website to read and changed my plans of wanting to open a Nano or even a Pico! There is a link on there where the owner goes through how inefficient it is to run a small brewery... its 15bbl or bust. But it really depends on what YOU want. Good luck.

Sound Brewing Systems, Inc

Thanks for the positive help