My mostly automated brucontrol setup

[augiedoggy]

ebay. I think I paid like $125 for it... it did have some goodies like wire ducting I was able to repurpose.

 

[Wizard_of_Frobozz]

That is one big panel. I've been struggling with the price/size of panels, and I found this box:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0791KV6R8/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

It's about the same internal space as a 16x16x8 metal enclosure, but at about half the cost. They have other sizes as well. http://www.altelix.com/Weatherproof-NEMA-Enclosures-s/357.htm

I have an existing metal enclosure that is too small for everything, so I'm going to get one of these plastic boxes for my low voltage items (Mega, thermister board, etc). The plastic enclosure should be RF transparent, so a Wifi shield can go in there too. All the AC components (SSR's, breakers, relays, etc) will go in the smaller metal box. If/when I outgrow that, I can just keep adding additional boxes as needed.

You don't have to try and cram everything into one box...just a thought for others who don't have a huge enclosure (or the $ to get one!)

 

[augiedoggy]

I uses a 16x16 x8 pasnel for my main brucontrol home panel and probably could have squeezed the guts from my fermenter control panel into it if I had bought more compact components but chose to build independent panels.

the panel pictured above is just for my hot side brewery control on my 3 bbl nano... havent started the fermentation control panel which will be in the basement of the brewery near the fermenters and walk in coolers.

 

[BrunDog]

Can never have too big an enclosure!

 

[Die_Beerery]

Got some more work done recently. I sheetrocked my basement the last week or so, so the focus has been elsewhere.

Have dual pH transmitters ( 4 total pH inputs available ) then 2 DO transmitters.

Re-organized the interior to make room for the 2 mass flow meters for real-time gravity from the mash tun and boil kettle. Then also the 3 mini vacuum pumps for the purging of the vessels.


Hopefully getting my power blocks today so I can really start wiring.

 

[Kmo4040]

Got some more work done recently. I sheetrocked my basement the last week or so, so the focus has been elsewhere.

Have dual pH transmitters ( 4 total pH inputs available ) then 2 DO transmitters.

Re-organized the interior to make room for the 2 mass flow meters for real-time gravity from the mash tun and boil kettle. Then also the 3 mini vacuum pumps for the purging of the vessels.


Hopefully getting my power blocks today so I can really start wiring.

Are you planning for any active cooling for those ssr's. I really like the look of your panel layout!

 

[Die_Beerery]

Are you planning for any active cooling for those ssr's. I really like the look of your panel layout!

The panel has 4 120mm fans going in. 1 in the bottom ( all I have room for), 1 in the side, and 2 exhaust on top.

 

[Die_Beerery]

Got some more control panel time in, wiring has started.

 

[augiedoggy]

its likely not needed but I would have orientated a fan to blow through all the heat sink fins from one end thats how I did it on my previous panels and the sinks stayed pretty cool... The way it sits the heat will sit in the bottom heat sink fin area.

 

[Inspire]

I agree, those heatsink could be a problem. Why not put it on top with the heatsink sticking out of the panel like the electric brewery type?
http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel-part-1
This way, you might not even need the fan. The heatsink will suck the heat from the SSR, and it'll go out of the control panel.

Either way, if it heats up and has a problem, you can always rewire to the top in the future.

 

[GParkins]

Why not put it on top with the heatsink sticking out of the panel like the electric brewery type

@Inspire, I would suggest mounting the heatsink on the side of the box. The heatsink that Kal sells is a really nice one, and it is more efficient and effective if the fins can act like a convective chimney to help extract the heat away from the fins. They are OK mounted on top, but they are more effective on the side of an enclosure.

 

[Inspire]

@GParkins Why is it more effective on the sides? I havn't done any testing, but I just assumed on top is the best, because heat moves up. If it's on the sides, then you'll have some heat stuck on the inside since heat moves up.

 

[GParkins]

@Inspire, the fins are channels, and the heat causes a behavior similar to a wick. It actually creates a vertical movement of air over the fins. On top, it is just passive radiation. I'll look to see if I can substantiate what looks like a voodoo claim.

 

[BrunDog]

This is true. I have a paper I can post when I get to the computer. It may not matter that much in our applications but vertical fin length matters most.

 

[GParkins]

Here's one source: https://www.alphanovatech.com/en/naturalcone.html that doesn't favor top or side, as long as the air can move across the fins. Still, it recognizes that airflow plays a part.

 

[GParkins]

1. Here's a link to one paper. Not sure if it's the same one @BrunDog is referring to or not: https://open.library.ubc.ca/media/download/pdf/24/1.0074423/1

 

[Die_Beerery]

Wow so much discussion over heat sinks!

You guys are going to be really upset when I tell you for the last 5 years, brewing once per week, I never even used heatsinks in my old panel and had zero issues. That panel uses 2 80mm fans (one push, one pull). This panel has 4 120mm ( 2 push, 2 pull) AND heatsinks. I am betting I will be fine....

 

[Die_Beerery]

Making my way though.

Top and middle sections all wired. Have the bottom and all the panel connectors to do. That’s gonna take some time. There are 40 3,8 and 10 pin connectors that need to be soldered and tied in.

I noticed this the other day. The old panel compared to the new panel. It’s... uhh... quite large.

 

[Wizard_of_Frobozz]

Is that a crimping tool I see at the bottom of the 1st picture? Are you using ferrules to terminate your wires? If so, can you provide details on what tool and ferrules you are using?

I am having a hard time finding a tool that can crimp up to 6 awg wire. Most crimpers only go up to 10 awg, and I'm building a 50 amp rig so I need something that can do 6 awg. There are some that can do higher gauge wire, but they can't do smaller than 10 awg. I can't justify spending money on a tool that will only be used to crimp about 6 wires.

 

[augiedoggy]

I always thought it was better to just use the bare wire when it came to larger wires like the 6 awg? The contactors I bought have connections that accommodate them..

 

[Wizard_of_Frobozz]

I always thought it was better to just use the bare wire when it came to larger wires like the 6 awg? The contactors I bought have connections that accommodate them..

I work in industrial food plants, and far too often, I have seen stranded wires short to the adjacent terminal because a stray strand got out. I also have seen the terminal screws come loose when put on bare stranded wire. It's probably overkill for a homebrew panel, but I've been burned by that enough to be picky about it.

A less elegant solution is to "tin" the ends of the wire with a little bit of solder, which is probably what I will do vs. spending $50 on a crimping tool just to crimp 6 wires. I just have a hard time doing that when I know there is a better solution...

 

[Tartan1]

Is that a crimping tool I see at the bottom of the 1st picture? Are you using ferrules to terminate your wires? If so, can you provide details on what tool and ferrules you are using?

I am having a hard time finding a tool that can crimp up to 6 awg wire. Most crimpers only go up to 10 awg, and I'm building a 50 amp rig so I need something that can do 6 awg. There are some that can do higher gauge wire, but they can't do smaller than 10 awg. I can't justify spending money on a tool that will only be used to crimp about 6 wires.

I found a lightly used set of KNIPEX - 97 53 09 - Self-adjusting crimping pliers on Ebay last year and they will handle everything from 5AWG - 28AWG by switching a lever on the side for larger AWG's. If you have a lot of crimps as I did they are well worth the investment.
Although ferrules are not mandatory they do solve the problem of stray strands especially from smaller gauge wires.

 

[Wizard_of_Frobozz]

I found a lightly used set of KNIPEX - 97 53 09 - Self-adjusting crimping pliers on Ebay last year and they will handle everything from 5AWG - 28AWG by switching a lever on the side for larger AWG's. If you have a lot of crimps as I did they are well worth the investment.
Although ferrules are not mandatory they do solve the problem of stray strands especially from smaller gauge wires.

Thanks for the info; looks like a really nice tool, but yikes are they expensive! Best I could find in a quick search is $185 for them. That's too much for me; as you say, if I had a lot of crimping to do, it might be worth it, but that's a lot of money to sit in a drawer for 99.9% of the time.

I'd rather spend that money on a counterflow chiller or a Riptide pump or a Spike kettle...

 

[Die_Beerery]

Is that a crimping tool I see at the bottom of the 1st picture? Are you using ferrules to terminate your wires? If so, can you provide details on what tool and ferrules you are using?

I am having a hard time finding a tool that can crimp up to 6 awg wire. Most crimpers only go up to 10 awg, and I'm building a 50 amp rig so I need something that can do 6 awg. There are some that can do higher gauge wire, but they can't do smaller than 10 awg. I can't justify spending money on a tool that will only be used to crimp about 6 wires.

Yes but I am using it for my smaller ~20 gauge wire to make my own dupont cables and mini connectors.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N4L8QMW/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

FWIW, I tin my large gauge leads. At work we had a large crimper for up to 00, but its gone missing.

 

[GParkins]

Having the terminals bear directly on the wires is safe and well within "best practices," as long as the screw for the terminal does not bear directly on the conductors. In the case of ABB, Phoenix, Schnieder, etc., the screws tighten a ridged plate that bears on the wires. You do have to be careful not to cram the wires in and let strands escape. I usually give the wires a twist before putting them into the connector. I also use fine-stranded wire, which helps.

 

[GParkins]

@Die_Beerery, I've been testing and commissioning my new system, and I ran into some trouble with the Mega resetting. It seems that there just isn't enough current available with the way I had it set up. I was running three 4-relay boards, two SSRs, two proportional valves, three RTD amps on the BruControl platform board, and the Adafruit WiFi shield.

The trouble started with the proportional valves. Every time I would set them to something other than 0 or 255, they would cause the Mega to start resetting. Some consultation with @BrunDog got me hooked up with a 270Ω, 27µF RC filter, which helped. Once I started water testing and fired up one pump and an element, the resetting began again.

In doing a little research, it seems that the WiFi shield can hit spikes of up to 300mA!

I wound up adding a 5v power supply to power the relay boards and the RTD amplifiers. So far, it seems to be working, but I still need to reconnect the proportional valves and make sure that the additional load from them can be absorbed by the Mega without causing resets. The way it sits right now, I am unable to offload the two SSRs for the elements, the two proportional valves, and the WiFi shield. I'm wondering if I can power the WiFi shield by removing the pin that connects the +5v pin (next to Vin) from the Mega through the screw shield to the WiFi shield, and running a lead from the power supply to the +5v pin on the WiFi shield. Your thoughts?

It looks like you have a bunch of stuff on your Mega, so I guess what I'm doing with this post is offering a caution that the 5v supply from the Mega is a finite resource, and easily overwhelmed.

How are you approaching the 200mA current limit on the Mega?

 

[Die_Beerery]

See that big open spot to the left of the mega? That’s a spot for another mega, because I had those same concerns.
My mega is not powering anything and I am serial. Everything comes from the power supplies in the top left. But! I am concerned about overloading it. Time( hopefully in the next week or so) will tell.

 

[GParkins]

My mega is not powering anything

How do you use the Mega to emulate PID control of an SSR without using power from the Mega to drive the coil on the SSR? I put an ammeter across mine, and it's drawing about 10mA.

 

[augiedoggy]

How do you use the Mega to emulate PID control of an SSR without using power from the Mega to drive the coil on the SSR? I put an ammeter across mine, and it's drawing about 10mA.

What type of SSR do you have that uses a coil?

Mine have a control voltage of 4-15v and draw very little MA. I use a 12v power supply to power my mega but even with controlling 4 dc pumps via mosfet pwm boards and 4 rtds, 3ssrs (often 2 at one time) and control voltage for my mechanical relay board has been fine. My 16 relay board has its own 12v to 5v step down transformer but Im not using it to power anything currently because of the reading spikes I was getting on my rims rtd probe..

 

[GParkins]

What type of SSR do you have that uses a coil?

"Coil" is probably the wrong term, but I use it out of habit. The SSRs I used are 3-32VDC control. At 5v, they draw a measured 10mA. I'm also using a 12v power supply for the Mega. In comparing notes with @BrunDog, the only substantial difference between what he's running and my setup is that I'm using the WiFi shield instead of an ethernet shield.

 

[augiedoggy]

"Coil" is probably the wrong term, but I use it out of habit. The SSRs I used are 3-32VDC control. At 5v, they draw a measured 10mA. I'm also using a 12v power supply for the Mega. In comparing notes with @BrunDog, the only substantial difference between what he's running and my setup is that I'm using the WiFi shield instead of an ethernet shield.

the Wifi shield must be making the difference then. I am using a serial connection myself. but am going with ethernet on a future build Ive started.

 

[Die_Beerery]

Building sensors the last few days.

11 temp sensors
20 valves
4 pressure
4 flow


It’s taking forever!

Red for any sensors and they use shielded and grounded wire. And blue for valves, which is just standard wire. Valves are also getting bench tested when completed.

 

[augiedoggy]

lol I did the exact same thing yesterday only I just color coded mine for now. (I dont have the valves)

 

[jcav]

Wow what a build thread! I am really enjoying following your progress. Keep the pics coming and good luck with the rest of the build!

John

 

[BrunDog]

Tell us more about the vacuum pumps. Are you going to draw vacuum on the system to rid it of O2? If so, will the vessels hold the pressure?

 

[Die_Beerery]

Tell us more about the vacuum pumps. Are you going to draw vacuum on the system to rid it of O2? If so, will the vessels hold the pressure?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/12V...32790027765.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.DvU5q2

They are actually pretty powerful.

So the thought is to make all the output lines of the pumps, come to a common box. In that box I was going to mount an o2 sensor ( something like this http://wiki.seeedstudio.com/Grove-Gas_Sensor-O2/). When the pump is turned on the co2 inlet will be opened. When the sensor reads 0ppm o2, the vessesl is purged. Making all the pumps go to one box saves on the sensor costs.

I will be using these kettles I designed http://www.********************/stout-tanks-and-kettles-llc/ and they are rated for pressure.

 

[GParkins]

Punching that many holes and soldering that many XLRs would make me nuts. I went for a tradeoff that simplified assembly at the cost of being able to unplug a single component. I ran three 12-conductor cables from the main enclosure to a J-box mounted behind the skirt board. I can still isolate individual components, but I have to open the J-box to get to the terminals to do it. The upside for me is that I can remove the enclosure from the brewstand quite easily. I can remove the backplane from the enclosure pretty easily, too. The J-box? Doable, but time-consuming.

 

[Robbert]

Im just going to start on my built, but could you give me a link to those pressure sensors/ cables? Love the neatness of it all!

 

[augiedoggy]

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/12V...32790027765.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.DvU5q2

They are actually pretty powerful.

So the thought is to make all the output lines of the pumps, come to a common box. In that box I was going to mount an o2 sensor ( something like this http://wiki.seeedstudio.com/Grove-Gas_Sensor-O2/). When the pump is turned on the co2 inlet will be opened. When the sensor reads 0ppm o2, the vessesl is purged. Making all the pumps go to one box saves on the sensor costs.

I will be using these kettles I designed http://www.********************/stout-tanks-and-kettles-llc/ and they are rated for pressure.

Hmm we use the K&N version of those pumps for ink on the UV printers I service.. On the versions we use, the diaphragms do have a tendency to rupture on the pumps if the filters start to plug and create resistance. Are you sure those will hold up?

 

[Die_Beerery]

Hmm we use the K&N version of those pumps for ink on the UV printers I service.. On the versions we use, the diaphragms do have a tendency to rupture on the pumps if the filters start to plug and create resistance. Are you sure those will hold up?

No, how would I they are brand new

Not sure where the filter is or if it can plug with vacuuming nitrogen. I have other pumps if they don't work out.