My method for sealing a heatstick

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jkarp said:
I'm wondering if the nail polish remover additives hosed you. I've used 100% acetone per J-B Weld's directions (1 tsp. of acetone or lacquer thinner per 2 oz. (1 full package) of mixed product) numerous times and never had a problem.
Click to expand...

The nail polish remover I used said "100% Acetone" on the front. But on the back it listed ingredients as: Acetone, Denatonium Benzoate.

As I said before, I know that denatonium is used as a bittering agent (so kids won't drink nail polish) and I think they normally only have to use traces of it to be effective. So, I'd guess that wasn't the cause, but maybe someone out there knows better.
 
Bill33525 said:
Have you considered potting the wires in silicone instead of the epoxy? Very nice job, the 90 degree bend is great for heating wort in a plastic mash tun.
Click to expand...

I decided to go ahead and pot the wires in silicone since I had it on hand. It was a little messy, but I think it should work.

After potting the wire terminals, I sealed the coupling into the pipe with some silicone. I sealed the threads for the reducer with some silicone. I added a little silicone around the o-ring, and then capped off the element. Then, I ended with a little silicone around both seals of the reducer.
 
I gave the heatstick a test run last night.

It didn't leak. That's probably the most important note.

With my glass stove top on high, it took just under an hour to bring ~9 gallons to a boil from 135F.

I'm using a 1500W 120V heatstick.

Now, I will rarely be bring 9 gallons up from 135F, but I wanted to test my worst case scenario.

Another note is that I wasn't really getting a raging boil like I can get from my propane burner. I'm not sure if that will be an issue or not, but it's something worth noting.
 
Good deal :)

I think that will work great for 6.5 gallon boils. My tap water is like 50 degrees or less here in Michigan, so I went with 2 1500 watt sticks. The calculators say 3000 watts should bring my 50 degrees to mash temp in 40 minutes and boil 13 minutes after that.

If you added another 1500 watt heastick to a separate circuit you'd be looking at like 1/2 hour on 9 gallons, not bad!

Glad these things work... I need to test mine out soon.
 
After my first wort boil with the heatstick, the heating element was covered with a layer of carmelized/crusted wort and hops.

I soaked it in PBW solution for a while and was able to scrape most of it off.

Does that happen to anyone else?
 
Yes, mine have a thin crust of wort on them after the boil. I use a scrub sponge to get the loose stuff off. I'm not concerned with the coating at all.
 
Yeah that's normal. I typically just use a scouring pad to clean it under warm running water.
 
Uhhhg...my attempt at this build didn't work for sh*t! I got to the part where I dremel-cut the pvc coupling...but the J-B Weld wouldn't let go of the PVC. I just ended up destroying everything that I waited patiently for 3 days to achieve. Very frustrated.

Where did I go wrong?? Any suggestions?
 
Bill33525 said:
Some sort of release agent on the PVC would be helpful. Like a very thin coating of vaseline perhaps.
Click to expand...

I've never had to do that and i've built 3 with this method.

Are you sure you cut completely through the PVC? JB weld should be visible at the bottom of the cut (you will probably cut into JB weld a bit). Once you have that circular cut, just make two more lengthwise cuts all the way through the PVC, put a flat-head screwdriver in the cut and twist. It's always popped right off for me.
 
Yeah...I was all the way through the PVC when I cut...but as soon as I inserted the screw driver and twisted, it just cracked the J-B Weld instead of popping the PVC off. I have two sections of PVC sitting here next to me, and nowhere on the inside of that coupling did the J-B weld release...it's all still fully adhered to the PVC surface.

Is it possible that I let the J-B Weld cure for too long, creating a bond with the PVC? I potted the element on Saturday evening.
 
KaceMN said:
Yeah...I was all the way through the PVC when I cut...but as soon as I inserted the screw driver and twisted, it just cracked the J-B Weld instead of popping the PVC off. I have two sections of PVC sitting here next to me, and nowhere on the inside of that coupling did the J-B weld release...it's all still fully adhered to the PVC surface.

Is it possible that I let the J-B Weld cure for too long, creating a bond with the PVC? I potted the element on Saturday evening.
Click to expand...

I don't know enough to say for sure, but i don't think the cure time would have anything to do with it. The only thing i can think of is if you cut too deep into the jb weld, you might have stuck the end up of the screwdriver in the actual jb weld and twisted instead of the just the pvc. It's possible that unequal ratios or not thoroughly mixing the two parts of jb weld could lead to it adhering differently.

You did you regular JB weld, right? I know there's a bunch of different types.
 
Back to the silicone topic, have you guys experienced any crumbling/deterioration in the silicone? Whether it's yes or no, how many batches have you used the heatstick with?

I'm not sure what temperature it's rated for, so I'm wondering if it holds up to repeated, prolonged, boiling temperatures?

I'm talking about the 100% silicone made by GE (or DAP) that says it is compliant for incidental food contact under FDA 21 CFR177.2600.
 
EarthBound said:
Back to the silicone topic, have you guys experienced any crumbling/deterioration in the silicone? Whether it's yes or no, how many batches have you used the heatstick with?

I'm not sure what temperature it's rated for, so I'm wondering if it holds up to repeated, prolonged, boiling temperatures?

I'm talking about the 100% silicone made by GE (or DAP) that says it is compliant for incidental food contact under FDA 21 CFR177.2600.
Click to expand...

I don't remember the exact figures, but it's well beyond anything in the brew kettle. I've use my original heatstick for almost a year (~15 batches) and when i took it apart the silicone looked fine- wasn't even discolored.

Also, just to reiterate, there is very little silicone actually exposed doing it this way.
 
Is the pvc coupler everyone is using to surround the contacts on the element a 1 in diameter or 1 inch in length. I bought the 1 inch diameter and it won't go into the drain pipe at all, not sure if maybe the coupler I have is too thich or something
 
Homer said:
Is the pvc coupler everyone is using to surround the contacts on the element a 1 in diameter or 1 inch in length. I bought the 1 inch diameter and it won't go into the drain pipe at all, not sure if maybe the coupler I have is too thich or something
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Make sure it is a 1" COUPLER- neither the diameter nor length is actually 1". They are like 50 cents at lowes, HD, etc. If you can't figure it out, just grab a drain pipe from the plumbing section and bring it over to the pvc section and test fit before you buy. It will very very snug, but will go in with force.

EDIT: Also, there seems to be a little variation in the actual diameter from one coupler to another- you may have to try a couple out in the store to find the best fit.
 
Great thread, thanks for the tips. Didn't reread when I did the epoxying the other day...ended up taking the entire pvc coupling off after the JB Weld cured. Hope that does not mess things up. Will be mounting in the j pipe later this week.

Regards
 
tarponteaser said:
Great thread, thanks for the tips. Didn't reread when I did the epoxying the other day...ended up taking the entire pvc coupling off after the JB Weld cured. Hope that does not mess things up. Will be mounting in the j pipe later this week.

Regards
Click to expand...

the pvc coupling is what provides the really tight seal in the drain pipe, so i think it's actually pretty important. Otherwise you're going to have to use a bunch of silicone to prevent liquid from getting into the pipe (but not necessarily to the wiring since the JB weld encases it). I personally wouldn't feel comfortable with that.

The point of using the pvc is that it fits extremely tightly into the end of the drainpipe and, along with a little silicone, provides an additional "layer" of protection against liquid getting to the wiring.
 
I am thinking about building a heat stick using ideas from your post. I plan on using this heat stick to make a 5 gal water bath that I will use a PID temperature controller to keep the water at a specific setpoint temperatures for sous vide cooking. It will only be held about 5" under the surface of the water and the water will be circulated.

I have a few questions.

If i use the metal drain pipe, I will have to cut it almost as soon as it makes the 90 degree turn up so it won't put the element too deep in my shallow bath.

Could you not just use more cpvc pipe right out of the end of the coupling the length you want and then use an end cap with a hole drilled in it for the cord or do you think it is not sealed good enough with just the epoxy and water would leak by?
I realize you would not be able to hook the green wire to the brass pipe for a ground, but why would you even need this if you are going to run it on a GFCI outlet?

If I can go with all cpvc, I was going to reduce it down as soon as I make my 90 so I can have a smaller 1/2" hole coming out through the lid of the water bath with the power cord, then drill a small hole to cap it.

If you think there is a good possibility of it leaking, I will just go with the metal pipe like you did and deal with the aesthetics of the huge chrome pipe coming out the top.

Any insight you have will be appreciated,
Rob
 
I think PVC would be alright after building several heat sticks and brewing many batches of beer with them. The temperature of the heater element is limited to the temperature of the water so the PVC will not melt. As far as grounding the heater element shell, I think it would be a mistake not to do this, as the meal pipe provides a ground return for the GFI breaker sensor. If the element was leaking current into the water there might be a potential shock hazard if the user contacted the water and any other part of the body was grounded, as in bare feet.
Finally, those chrome pipes are very easy to cut with a hack saw.
Hope this helps.
 
GFCI doesn't need ground to work but you still want to ground any exposed metal to reduce the risk of shock if the hot lead comes loose.
 
So you guys think the coupling and jb weld seal would be good enough to keep water out without the extra silicone then putting it in the brass drain pipe?

How can the hot wire come off once it is cemented in jb weld and if it somehow did, wouldn't the cpvc itself insulate it?

The only way to ground it with all plastic pipe would be to run it down the outside of the pipe and soldier it to the threads or maybe just tighten a big nut on it. Is this what you are suggesting?

I do appreciate everyone's opinions and insight.

Rob
 
If you decide to go all PVC, would be best to get the green ground wire attached to the shell of the heater element. Not sure if you could solder it to the shell, but that would be wonderful if it works. Alternately if using a metal pot, just clip the ground wire to the metal pot if that's easier.
The reason to have the ground wire on the shell, or connected to the pot, is if there is any leakage the GFI will trip right away. If no ground connection is provided then the current would have to go through your body to trip the breaker.

Hope this helps.
 
Bill33525 said:
The reason to have the ground wire on the shell, or connected to the pot, is if there is any leakage the GFI will trip right away. If no ground connection is provided then the current would have to go through your body to trip the breaker.
Click to expand...

Again, GFCI doesn't use the ground wire. GFCI trips when the current on the hot and neutral are not equal, indicating leakage (there could be other conductive paths, especially in a kitchen, beside the circuit the heat stick is plugged into). Grounding the pot / element provides an important additional layer of protection.

I do quite like your idea of leaving the ground lead long and clipping it to the pot with an alligator clip or something similar.
 
Ok i built my heat stick and I tested it yesterday. No leaks and it works. The JB weld was very much bonded to the PVC coupling and i could not just cut it and pry it. If I have to do this again, now that i know how much of the coupling I will be taking off, i'll wax the part that you pry off to get it to de-laminate easier. I had to take a flat edge grinding wheel to grind the pvc from the jb weld as far as i needed to. It only took 5 minutes so I guess it wasn't too big of a deal. I grounded to the upper part of the pipe just below where I sealed it with the PVC end cap so it would be above the water line.

Here is a video of my first test. I took the end cap off so I could see down to the bottom and to tip it up after to make sure there was not water leakage.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Well, I had some rust forming on the threads and the flat part where the element itself comes out (the part normally inside the water heater). I read I should neutralize the rust and then I could silicone that whole end and threads to keep it from rusting. When I took it apart I can see that water is leaking in the pipe as i poured a couple of ounces out. I guess the jb weld did keep it sealed good enough as it didn't shock me or blow the circuit breaker. This time I siliconed the sh*t out of it around the part that sticks into the j pipe that looks like a nut then screwed the end piece on again and covered the threads and flat part where it was rusting very good with silicone. Do you think this will be good enough? Alternately, if it still leaks past I was thinking about doing another jb weld sealing by getting it all the way down the pipe and sealing to the part that already has been jb welded to the fresh jb weld, basically just filling the inside of the pipe a little bit deeper in jb weld and covering the wires inside a little bit more?

Also, from when i first plugged it in, the GFCI would not let it run for more than 10 seconds so I am just using the normal ground to the pipe right now. Anyone know why the gfci would keep popping after 10 seconds? It is not shocking me when i touch the metal so I have been running on a normal outlet at this time.
 
swamibob said:
Also, from when i first plugged it in, the GFCI would not let it run for more than 10 seconds so I am just using the normal ground to the pipe right now. Anyone know why the gfci would keep popping after 10 seconds? It is not shocking me when i touch the metal so I have been running on a normal outlet at this time.
Click to expand...

If the GFCI is popping, there's a current leak. It may not be enough to shock you or you're not in a path to ground. Regardless, the stick is hosed. Rebuild it.
 
The water in the pipe is causing current to flow between one of the connections to the element and the ground connection on the pipe, causing the GFI to trip. Did you cover the connections to the element with JB Weld or silicone? One of the glue joints must be leaking.
Safest operation is assured by using a GFI outlet. Continue to improve your waterproofing until the GFI stops tripping.
Hope this helps.
 

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