MY first time making cider

[zackwallen]

Hello Everybody,

I am currently receiving a kit from crooked apple hard cider kit.
I cant find much reviews on it online. Can somebody tell me how to use this kit properly?

Also, I will be using Safale S-04 yeast. My only worries is how much sugar do I have to put. In second fermentation, what do I do to make the cider go clear. What kind of sugar to use in bottling process to make it carb or bubbly.

thank you in advance for helping me with this process.

 

[jtratcliff]

I've never used a kit, but just store-bought apple juice .... I used the Ed Wort's Apfelwein recipe from here on HBT...

I add 2 lbs of brown sugar to 5.5 gallons of apple juice. Ferment dry with Montrachet yeast and leave in primary for a month or more to drop clear.

I batch prime in a bottling bucket with a cup of regular white table sugar dissolved in a cup or 2 of boiling water. Add priming solution to bottling bucket, then carefully rack cider on top of priming solution.

Takes about 1-3 weeks to carb at room temperature...

 

[bernardsmith]

Hello Everybody,

I am currently receiving a kit from crooked apple hard cider kit.
I cant find much reviews on it online. Can somebody tell me how to use this kit properly?

Also, I will be using Safale S-04 yeast. My only worries is how much sugar do I have to put. In second fermentation, what do I do to make the cider go clear. What kind of sugar to use in bottling process to make it carb or bubbly.

thank you in advance for helping me with this process.

Hi zackwallen - and welcome. I have never made any wine or cider from kits but kits come with detailed instructions and with all and any adjuncts you will need to produce the cider - including the yeast.

Generally speaking time itself will cause the cider to clear- gravity will take over once most of the CO2 the yeast produce has slowly dissipated. But the kit may include pectic enzyme which will help break up the pectic proteins in the fruit which can cause a haze. There are other clarifiers too which the kit may include.

Again, I am certain that any kit worthy of that name will include instructions for priming (carbonating) the cider. Any fermentable sugar from table to corn , from honey to concentrated apple juice, can be used to carbonate the cider but the kit will have instructions and advice about what the manufacturer thinks is the best option to make the cider in the way the manufacturer intended. But I would think that any fermentable sugar in a quantity that raises the specific gravity by about 2.5 points will carbonate the cider enough without creating bottle bombs... ( Cider ain't beer. There is no net of protein that will hold a head for any length of time but the carbonation will add acidity and the sparkle and fizz will make the drink bright and interesting rather than dull).

 

[zackwallen]

Hi zackwallen - and welcome. I have never made any wine or cider from kits but kits come with detailed instructions and with all and any adjuncts you will need to produce the cider - including the yeast.

Generally speaking time itself will cause the cider to clear- gravity will take over once most of the CO2 the yeast produce has slowly dissipated. But the kit may include pectic enzyme which will help break up the pectic proteins in the fruit which can cause a haze. There are other clarifiers too which the kit may include.

Again, I am certain that any kit worthy of that name will include instructions for priming (carbonating) the cider. Any fermentable sugar from table to corn , from honey to concentrated apple juice, can be used to carbonate the cider but the kit will have instructions and advice about what the manufacturer thinks is the best option to make the cider in the way the manufacturer intended. But I would think that any fermentable sugar in a quantity that raises the specific gravity by about 2.5 points will carbonate the cider enough without creating bottle bombs... ( Cider ain't beer. There is no net of protein that will hold a head for any length of time but the carbonation will add acidity and the sparkle and fizz will make the drink bright and interesting rather than dull).

Thank you for the information. It is really helpful. I will start the process this Sunday and keep you guys updated

 

[TRueff]

Hey there! Same sentiments here - never used a kit, just store-bought juice. The amount of sugar to add is really based on a number of factors: what alcohol content you're looking for; how much sweetness you want; what your yeast's tolerances are, etc. You could always not add any sugar and just use what sugars are in your juice to begin with.

Basically, if you want more alcohol, add more sugar. Of course, at some point, you're going to overwhelm your yeast, that's why you need to know how much alcohol it can tolerate. For example, if your yeast can tolerate 8% alcohol, you could add as much sugar as you wanted up to a starting gravity 1.060 and ferment dry to the desired level. But, if you wanted some sweetness left, you could overshoot your yeast's potential and (say, add enough sugar for a starting gravity with a potential alcohol content of 9%) there would be some sugar left behind. You can also pasteurize, but that's a whole other thread.

Regarding the TYPE of sugar, I've had really good results with corn sugar dextrose. Is super fine grain, dissolves well, and has left me with a fuzzy final product after priming and bottling.

You can also use pectic enzyme at the start of your ferment to help with clarity.

Cheers!

 

[bernardsmith]

The thing about kits are that unless you know what you are doing IF you don't follow the instructions pretty carefully and IF something goes wrong and the results taste like crap then you have no come back. If you follow the instructions (even if you don't know what you are doing) and the results taste like crap you are covered by the manufacturer's guarantees. In other words, if they don't include instructions/ materials to remove pectins then either they have done this already OR you are on your own..If they don't provide instructions for back sweetening and/or they don't provide the sugars for this with the kit then again, you are on your own. A kit comes with "ingredients" AND instructions. If it doesn't, it ain't a "kit", and if it is a kit then anything you add that is not covered by the instructions means that YOU better know what you are doing...And that's fine... If you are a novice I would say read and follow the instructions to a T. And if you are a seasoned wine/cider/mead maker a kit is there for you to use as your starting point.

 

[Drewed]

I don't know which kit you got, but directions are on-line. Here is an example.
http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/Crooked_Apple_Inst_Update_December_2016.pdf

The instructions are very clear. And the crooked apple kits are very complete. You may need some dextrose (corn sugar) to bump up the avb, but that depends on the kit - and it will tell you how much to add. Don't worry about carbonation, as the kit has carbonation drops included. I still use the drops as they are pretty much idiot proof. The only thing I would watch out for is the "sweetening pack." It is some type of artificial sweetener and it tastes like it to me. Also you will experience tongue fatigue while back sweetening, so have somebody else check the sweet level with you, and for CIDER's sake, don't taste the sweetener before hand or your taste buds will be screwed for hours and you will end up with a stupid sweet cider. - Don't ask.

You will find that most member here are kind of down on kits, and there is a reason for that as the quality can be lower, and the price higher, but for somebody just starting out who doesn't have a local home brew store they are not a bad way to start.

Everybody has different setups, different sources of apple product, and different tastes. So every has "the best" way to make cider. Take all advice, especially advice from somebody stating that "This is the only yeast to use, or this is the only method."
Take lots of notes, and you will develop your own best method. However, ask lots of questions and listen to those that have good advice.

Making cider is easy, making good cider is hard.

 

[zackwallen]

I don't know which kit you got, but directions are on-line. Here is an example.
http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/Crooked_Apple_Inst_Update_December_2016.pdf

The instructions are very clear. And the crooked apple kits are very complete. You may need some dextrose (corn sugar) to bump up the avb, but that depends on the kit - and it will tell you how much to add. Don't worry about carbonation, as the kit has carbonation drops included. I still use the drops as they are pretty much idiot proof. The only thing I would watch out for is the "sweetening pack." It is some type of artificial sweetener and it tastes like it to me. Also you will experience tongue fatigue while back sweetening, so have somebody else check the sweet level with you, and for CIDER's sake, don't taste the sweetener before hand or your taste buds will be screwed for hours and you will end up with a stupid sweet cider. - Don't ask.

You will find that most member here are kind of down on kits, and there is a reason for that as the quality can be lower, and the price higher, but for somebody just starting out who doesn't have a local home brew store they are not a bad way to start.

Everybody has different setups, different sources of apple product, and different tastes. So every has "the best" way to make cider. Take all advice, especially advice from somebody stating that "This is the only yeast to use, or this is the only method."
Take lots of notes, and you will develop your own best method. However, ask lots of questions and listen to those that have good advice.

Making cider is easy, making good cider is hard.

Thank you for this information's. Very helpful,
I currently bought couple books on cider making and went to couple cider worships. I finally found a store near by for beer making but they are very knowledgeable of there cider making. I cant wait for the results.

Currently I am making the cider out of the kit. Also I am making my own cider from a local orchard.

 

[bernardsmith]

Orchards can be wonderful ... but if the only apples they press are desert apples (those you buy to eat) they may not have enough tannins or have the right amount of acidity for a great cider. I was just talking to the owner of a local orchard here and he explained to me that he is looking for ways to offer a more "bitter" juice precisely because he does not grow "cider apples".

 

[Drewed]

Orchards can be wonderful ... but if the only apples they press are desert apples (those you buy to eat) they may not have enough tannins or have the right amount of acidity for a great cider. I was just talking to the owner of a local orchard here and he explained to me that he is looking for ways to offer a more "bitter" juice precisely because he does not grow "cider apples".

Crab apples might help. They grow pretty quick too.

 

[zackwallen]

Any body knows how safcider yeast react to heat. I was reading the package but no information on that matter

 

[Drewed]

Fermentis Safcider, selected from the Champagne region, can be used for all types of ciders, even under difficult fermentation conditions. This cider yeast works at a wide temperature range between 10-30°C (50-86°F) with ideal temperatures between 18-24°C (64-75°F).

 

[zackwallen]

Hey guys I am about 10 days into my second fermentation and was wondering if I can start bottling it already or wait another 4 days till I do so

 

[bernardsmith]

If it's a kit, the "manufacturer" will have tested everything to the last detail. What do the instructions suggest you do? If it's not a kit and you are making cider from quality juice from quality apples then the longer you allow the cider to age the more apple forward the cider will taste and - depending on the yeast you selected - the more the yeast will have metabolized the malic acid in the apples and converted this to less sharp lactic acid (NOT through a malo-lactic fermentation which is usually done bacterially and not through yeast).

Cider? should age about 3 months before bottling or even 6 or more. Kits tend to want you to bottle quickly because then you have an empty fermenter on your hands and an empty fermenter calls out to be filled with another kit... Your call, of course...

 

[zackwallen]

If it's a kit, the "manufacturer" will have tested everything to the last detail. What do the instructions suggest you do? If it's not a kit and you are making cider from quality juice from quality apples then the longer you allow the cider to age the more apple forward the cider will taste and - depending on the yeast you selected - the more the yeast will have metabolized the malic acid in the apples and converted this to less sharp lactic acid (NOT through a malo-lactic fermentation which is usually done bacterially and not through yeast).

Cider? should age about 3 months before bottling or even 6 or more. Kits tend to want you to bottle quickly because then you have an empty fermenter on your hands and an empty fermenter calls out to be filled with another kit... Your call, of course...

I am brewing the kit which is one galloon. I am following there instructions.

However I have gallon of Craft cider on the work too. Made with Safale S-04

They both are in there second fermentation.

 

[bernardsmith]

Brewers tend to use ale yeasts such as S-04 but wine makers often use 71B (for its affinity with malic) or 47D. Neither yeast, I think, has a need for much nitrogen.

 

[zackwallen]

Here in Mass we have lot of Cider makers. Most of them due use the Ale. At a work shop of those cider places I saw that they are using Nottingham Ale.

I am using S04 due to me reading a post on here about the best yeast to use with ciders.

Will see about the results.

 

[zackwallen]

My only worries is what kind of bottling system should I use ?

 

[bernardsmith]

What options do you have? I rack into a bucket with a spigot and use a tube from the spigot to spring loaded bottling rod. When I press the tip the wine/cider/mead/beer flows and when I stop pressing the spring returns and prevents any liquid leaving. Filled to the top, when I remove the rod there is about an inch or so of head room. No splashing, no excessive exposure to air, flows from the bucket from the bottom down and fills the bottles from the bottom up.

 

[zackwallen]

that's what have. But what bottles work best for you

 

[Drewed]

12oz brown beer bottles and a hand capper. Or the slightly bigger swing top bottles.

 

[jtratcliff]

that's what have. But what bottles work best for you

I use a mix of whatever I have. I like to use clear 12oz (I save Newcastle bottles for this), green swing tops (grolsch-style)...

Trader Joe's sells a "ginger-brew" in large green swing tops... I get the empties from friends and sometimes even TJ's employees.

Martinelli cider comes in champagne style bottle that takes a regular sized crown cap. So also save those when I buy kid-safe sparkling cider.

 

[jtratcliff]

Grrr... Edit to remove double post from phone...

 

[zackwallen]

I finally got was able to try my first batch. The kit Really sucks. The taste was like more of yeast than apple. I followed the instructions by heart.

However the one I made on my own with notigham yeast and Apple cider from an orchard is out of this world. It tasted better than one of my favorite ciders named Down east.


Any more suggestions or recipes to try out.