my first solo brew

[Grod1]

I didn't see the best place for this,if a mod want to move it somewhere else please do.
i just wanted to post my plans for my first brew in hopes for anyone with insight to add their 2 cents.
MY intention is to make a very light sour base beer that is good enough to drink on its own but will most likely be split into 2-5 separate variations
this is my brew i have everything together and i will brew it monday. this is my first solo brew.

yeast strain: 3763 Roeselare Ale Blend
(Belgian style ale strain, a sherry strain,2 Brettanomyces strains, Lactobacillus culture, Pediococcus culture)
12 lb 2-row
3 lbs red wheat
1 lbs acidulated
2 oz tettnang hops

bring 7 gallons of water to 170 in two pots add the 2-row and acidulated malts in one pot and add the red wheat in a grain bag in smaller pot.
mash all grains at 155F for 1 hour
strain and mix together in mash tun
sparge until intended color( i mean i get my my target pre-boil volume or have the correct ph.
secondary fermentation in 10 day with with brett and wine soaked oak chips at this time.
Tasting once a month.
I don't see this tasting anything like what i intend for up to 4 months then continues conditioning/souring for an addition year.
if in 4 months it taste okay i will make the variants. I really would like to do one with grape must and one with blueberries.

 

[kombat]

Your mash temperature is way too hot. That might be a good temperature for your strike water, but once you mix in the grains, it should settle much lower than that (145 - 155° F). You don't want the mash to sit at 170° F or you'll denature your enzymes.

Also, don't "sparge until intended color." You should sparge until a) you've collected your target pre-boil volume, or b) the pH of the wort you're collecting has drifted out of the 5.2 to 5.4 range.

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

I don't have experience with that type of beer, but I see what it is you are trying to do and it sounds very interesting. I am interested in what some of the other sour brewers comments may be. It has always amazed me that people are willing to wait a year or even years to see what they created. I am always absolutely dying to know how my beer will turn out starting day one all the way until 6 weeks later.

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

Your mash temperature is way too hot. That might be a good temperature for your strike water, but once you mix in the grains, it should settle much lower than that (145 - 155° F). You don't want the mash to sit at 170° F or you'll denature your enzymes.

Also, don't "sparge until intended color." You should sparge until a) you've collected your target pre-boil volume, or b) the pH of the wort you're collecting has drifted out of the 5.2 to 5.4 range.

I am guessing that his high mash temps are an effort to have unconverted starches that he lambic yeasts can chew on over a long period of time.

 

[kombat]

Do lambic yeast chew on unconverted starches, or long-chain (usually unfermentable) sugars?

 

[Grod1]

oh in my notes i wrote mash at 155F i dont know know why i wrote 170 down here. thank you for that correction and thank you for all the comments so far!
the hardest part is not waiting a year,the hardest part will be dumping it if it sucks in a year.
I have been told that even if i do everything right it doesn't mean it will taste good. Thats why im here running this by you guys.
please school me or give constructive criticism.

 

[Double_D]

Do lambic yeast chew on unconverted starches, or long-chain (usually unfermentable) sugars?

Pretty sure they can do slightly more complex sugars than sack but not unconverted starch.

oh in my notes i wrote mash at 155F i dont know know why i wrote 170 down here. thank you for that correction and thank you for all the comments so far!
the hardest part is not waiting a year,the hardest part will be dumping it if it sucks in a year.
I have been told that even if i do everything right it doesn't mean it will taste good. Thats why im here running this by you guys.
please school me or give constructive criticism.

Yeah I didn't see the link to the yeast...


In my experience, brett doesn't actually sour a beer. It may give it a little tartness and a little funk. There are standard sacc strains that will do this also, like forbidden fruit from wyeast. If you actually want to make a sour beer your need bacteria that will produce lactic acid. Those would be some form of lactobacillus (of which there are many, I've used a couple without noticing any difference) and pediococcus. Both of them make lactic acid but under different conditions. Pedio isn't as susceptible to ibu or abv the way lacto is. Pedio will also make your beer ropy as some point but it will clean it up. According to the "wild brews" book, the belgians say the beer has to be sick at least once. Getting sick is the same ropy effect.

Keep the ibu low and you're pretty much good to go.

 

[m00ps]

As stated, brett x= sour. But that blend already liekly has brett in it, as well as bacteria, so I dont see the point of adding it in a secondary.

And yeah, 170 isnt just too hot, its hot enough to destroy the enzymes which convert the sugars. So your mash will be basically ruined

 

[Double_D]

1lb of acid malt wont really produce much actual sourness in a beer

also, as stated, brett x= sour. But that blend already liekly has brett in it, as well as bacteria, so I dont see the point of adding it in a secondary. But more importantly, with a mixed fermentation, you ABSOLUTELY cannot bottle this in 10 days unless you like picking glass out of your face

I think you need to read up a lot on sours before trying this. For your own safety and for the sake of your beer

Not a bad idea.^^^

I think the plan is secondary after 10 days, then stays there until it's sour.

 

[Grod1]

I understand i have a lot of reading to do.I plan on reading more. i have been reading for 2 years lol. I am a hands on type of person atm what i need is experience. I don't mind failing few times. i do realize that 1 lb acidulated malt does seem low. How high do you think i should go?Its my understanding that its the cultures that will do the souring not necessarily the grain.i want a really light beer and after looking at a lot of recipes for beers i liked i figured 1 lb was enough.
I read somewhere that i should use rice hulls if im using red wheat( to help with stickiness) anyone have experience with that?I'm not familiar with the taste of rice in beer.the culture im using has
Belgian style ale strain,
a sherry strain,
2 Brettanomyces strains,
Lactobacillus culture,
Pediococcus culture
At secondary i was planing on using brett-bruxellensis for the classic sun soaked sweet hay and horse stall aroma, but after looking at the options i found Brett- lambicus pie cherry-like flavor and sourness along with distinct “Brett” character and that sounds delectable so i went with that.

 

[Double_D]

I like the brett L over brett B just generally.

You're less than 25% wheat in the total grist so I wouldn't worry too much about the rice hulls. I do my hefe/dunkel with 50% wheat and don't have a problem with a stuck sparge but the caveat to that is I have a false bottom. Your results may vary and if it makes you feel better a half pound would probably make you worry less.

You're right about the cultures vs the grain doing the souring. My understanding of the development of the acid malt was for brewers constrained by the reinheitsgbot, so they could bring down the ph of their mash without adding anything but grain not necessarily for a flavor contribution..so you're probably fine the way your are. I have heard roselare takes a long time to develop a sour beer which is why I've always added cultures of the individual bacteria after primary fermentation. Also, that's the way russian river does their sours and I like their beer so I follow their process. Even then, it still takes 9 months or so. I just make my sours, put them in a corner and forget about them, and come back to them when I've gotten tired of working around them in the house.

 

[Grod1]

Thank you for the encouragement. A false bottom?like a prefilter to the sparge?i love russian river as well a temptation clone helped me determine the grain bill for this brew as well as a few other steps.
I am prepared to wait 9 months for a beer im happy with.I hope in 9 months I have a beer im happy with.
I choose this as my first beer to start but i will make other styles while i wait. I have collected 5 carboys and 1/4 a garage worth of brewing equipment over the years while reading but never brewed anything of my own.
do you have any experience on soaking oak in wine chips. I honestly cant find any real instructions for this on the internet.just tuns of people saying they are going to do it.

 

[Double_D]

Thank you for the encouragement. A false bottom?like a prefilter to the sparge?i love russian river as well a temptation clone helped me determine the grain bill for this brew as well as a few other steps.
I am prepared to wait 9 months for a beer im happy with.I hope in 9 months I have a beer im happy with.
I choose this as my first beer to start but i will make other styles while i wait. I have collected 5 carboys and 1/4 a garage worth of brewing equipment over the years while reading but never brewed anything of my own.
do you have any experience on soaking oak in wine chips. I honestly cant find any real instructions for this on the internet.just tuns of people saying they are going to do it.

Combine wine and wood in a container, like a bowl or something until they are well saturated. Nothing really to that step.

A false bottom holds your grain off the floor of your mash tun. I've used manifolds and bazooka filters with good results. But by no means is it necessary. I mean the false bottom compared to something else that filters.

 

[Grod1]

after a day of reading and trying to get my thought togther i edited my original post maybe to those of you still reading this thread this seems more like i know what im doing.

step one
12 lb 2-row/1lb acidulated ground together. 3 lbs red wheat milled separately.
steep without a grain bag on my electric stove then strain into mash tun
bring 6-8 gallons (1.3qts per lb of grain)of water up to 170F add to a large vessel called the mash tun,when water temperature hits 160 add grains to hot water to form the mash.
strain,mash all grains together at 155 for 1 hour
step2
produce sweet liquid called wort for boiling
sparge until intended color( pH of the wort you're collecting has drifted out of the 5.2 to 5.4 range/ gravity of 1.008-1.012)
Transfer sparged wort to a boiler where hops is added boiled for 75 1&1/2 oz added at 40 mins. half oz added ad flame out.(possibly left in until secondary) mins before cooling for fermentation.
add to 6 gallon fermentation bucket cool down and add yeast/cultures.
10 days later at secondary transfer to 5 gallon carboy add brett and 6oz of wine soaked oak chips at this time.
Using B.lambics described as pie cherry-like flavor and sourness along with distinct “Brett” characterTasting
taste once a month..
if in 4 months it taste okay i will make the variants.
grape must
blueberries
rose hips

notes
16 lbs @ 1.3 quarts a pound = 5.2 gallons
Hot water at approximately 178 F is slowly added to the top of the grain bed during sparge-
-adding a bit of lactic acid always seemed to brighten the flavor
B. lambicus) are listed at 12% tolerance.
-needs least 3-6 months aging is generally required for flavor to fully develop.
Roeselare cake
YEAST STRAIN: 3763 | Roeselare Ale Blend

Aging up to 18 months is required for a full flavor profile and acidity to develop. Specific proportions of a Belgian style ale strain, a sherry strain, two Brettanomyces strains, a Lactobacillus culture, and a Pediococcus

" I put my cake into a gallon jug with apple juice between brews then bottle the juice and dump it into the fermenter with some new yeast when I am ready to use it again.. The juice keeps my bugs alive and makes a great wild brew."

typically, I will use about 6 ounces of chips for souring once all the oak flavor is gone from them. -

 

[Grod1]

okay so after a bit of tweaking and the usage of a brew calculator i altered my recipe to have up to 5% alcohol.My last recipie seemed to max out at 4.2%i also corrected the SRM and IBU scale for the style.
i am going to add half the hops at the last 10 mins of the boil and half at flame out for aroma.
15 lb American - Pale 2-Row 73.9%
3 lb American - Red Wheat 14.8%
2 lb German - Acidulated Malt 9.9%
0.3lb Dextrose 1.5%
20.3 lb Total
with the roeselare ale blend 3763 i should peek at 5%

please tell me if that math seems wrong to you as far as the fermentables and alc content.
so i used a different calculator and it said my abv with the same recipe will be 9...

 

[Grod1]

okay all said and done.
i finished. took me all day i started at like 9 this morning and i'm finally sitting down after cleaning.
I couldn't boil water on my electric stove so after 2 hours on the stove hitting 180 i gave up. turned everything off and went to home depot for a turkey deep fryer.
My sparge water was at 1.03 but after running it back threw a bunch of times and after the boil i have a specific gravity of 1.05 when i put it in my primary fermenter .
the taste and SRM was 100% what i was expecting. the smell that came out of the roselare bag was so funkadelicly brilliant it made my mouth water.