My First Lager

[Sellick]

I'm still pretty new to brewing, only 4 ales and 2 ciders under my belt, and now have a fridge for fermenting so I decided to give it a go!

I'm using a partial mash recipe I found, here, as my base recipe, but it'll be slightly different due to the malts I bought.

Here's my recipe:

6 lbs Pale LME
1 lb Extra Light DME
.62 lbs Crystal Malt 10L

2 oz Mt Hood
.5 oz Hersbrucker
.5 oz Saaz
.5 oz Hersbrucker
.25 oz Saaz

Pilsner Lager Yeast WLP800

This is the first time I've done a yeast starter, I'm a little nervous that I won't have enough yeast by tomorrow though... I just found a pitch rate calculator and for a lager at a 1.051 OG it says I need 4 vials of liquid yeast. I made my starter with 1 and I highly doubt that it'll quadruple in size within 24 hours. I don't have a stir plate, which I understand really helps to speed things up, so I've been giving it a few swirls every hour or so.

Tomorrow when I go to pitch, how will I know how much I actually have? Need to know how to measure how much I have to know how much more I would need to buy for pitching.

Anyway, I figure I'll have plenty more questions about lagering, so figured now was a good time to start a thread.

Also built an immersion chiller today. 50' of 3/8". Really happy with how it turned out, no kinks and feels really sturdy when I pick it up. Looking forward to using it tomorrow.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

For proper lager pitching rates, you really need two vials into a starter, or one vial if you are stepping-up your starter (but this takes days). However, some brewers swear that a starter made with a single vial pitched whilst active is just as good.

To pitch at recommended rates, you'll probably need another two vials (as well as your starter) but it does depend on how old they are. You could also pitch a bit warmer, wait for fermentation to start then cool the beer. You need less yeast this way, but get more fruity-esters and will need a diacetyl rest.

 

[TheBigLebrewsk1]

I'm still pretty new to brewing, only 4 ales and 2 ciders under my belt, and now have a fridge for fermenting so I decided to give it a go!

I'm using a partial mash recipe I found, here, as my base recipe, but it'll be slightly different due to the malts I bought.

Here's my recipe:

6 lbs Pale LME
1 lb Extra Light DME
.62 lbs Crystal Malt 10L

2 oz Mt Hood
.5 oz Hersbrucker
.5 oz Saaz
.5 oz Hersbrucker
.25 oz Saaz

Pilsner Lager Yeast WLP800

This is the first time I've done a yeast starter, I'm a little nervous that I won't have enough yeast by tomorrow though... I just found a pitch rate calculator and for a lager at a 1.051 OG it says I need 4 vials of liquid yeast. I made my starter with 1 and I highly doubt that it'll quadruple in size within 24 hours. I don't have a stir plate, which I understand really helps to speed things up, so I've been giving it a few swirls every hour or so.

Tomorrow when I go to pitch, how will I know how much I actually have? Need to know how to measure how much I have to know how much more I would need to buy for pitching.

Anyway, I figure I'll have plenty more questions about lagering, so figured now was a good time to start a thread.

Also built an immersion chiller today. 50' of 3/8". Really happy with how it turned out, no kinks and feels really sturdy when I pick it up. Looking forward to using it tomorrow.

This is an extract with grains recipe and not a partial mash. You will be fine with your starter. You don't need 4 vials that is overkill for a 1.051 wort. Your target cell count is about 227 billion or about 2 vials, a starter with one should be fine. A hack, work around is to pitch at room temp until it starts going then cool down to lager temps. You could use 1 vial of 100 billion cells this way.

 

[Gavin C]

Lagers need a lot of yeast as you will be fermenting at ~50F.

Without a stir-plate you are handicapping yourself significantly when it comes to growing yeast and making lagers.

I favor this calculator

Punching in your data for a 5.5 gallon batch with very fresh yeast (manufactured 1 month ago) there is a doubling of the starter size requirement if a stir-plate is not used.

I only every use 1 vial of yeast but you may need two. Depending on the size of your flask you may be needing multiple steps to get where you need to be in terms of pitch rate.

Stirred Starter (This is what I would do with 1 vial)


Manually agitated starter (1 vial is not ideal)


Manually agitated starter (2 vials, ideal)


I make starters anytime I use liquid yeast and have been making a few lagers and hybrids of late . Here is how I make them.

Lagers will highlight any flavors derived from stressed yeast. Under pitching or fermenting warm are not going to be good for the beer. Lots to learn about yeast starters here from the Braukaiser.

 

[TheBigLebrewsk1]

Lagers need a lot of yeast as you will be fermenting at ~50F.

Without a stir-plate you are handicapping yourself significantly when it comes to growing yeast and making lagers.

I favor this calculator

Punching in your data for a 5.5 gallon batch with very fresh yeast (manufactured 1 month ago) there is a doubling of the starter size requirement if a stir-plate is not used.

I only every use 1 vial of yeast but you may need two. Depending on the size of your flask you may be needing multiple steps to get where you need to be in terms of pitch rate.

Stirred Starter (This is what I would do with 1 vial)
View attachment 301654

Manually agitated starter (1 vial is not ideal)
View attachment 301655

Manually agitated starter (2 vials, ideal)
View attachment 301656

I make starters anytime I use liquid yeast and have been making a few lagers and hybrids of late . Here is how I make them.

Lagers will highlight any flavors derived from stressed yeast. Under pitching or fermenting warm are not going to be good for the beer. Lots to learn about yeast starters here from the Braukaiser.

Most of these online calculators were created based on the Fix formula, which was based on the Declerk formula, which was derived before commercial lab propagated yeast. Ie not applicable for yeast attained from a lab. But if over pitching is preferred, have at it. If it gives you warm fuzziness have at it some more. But required is what it is not. Check out Brewing Practice and Science 2004 Briggs Bolton, et al if you are interested in learning more.

 

[Gavin C]

I'll have to pass on that one I'm afraid.

 

[TheBigLebrewsk1]

:fro:

I'll have to pass on that one I'm afraid.

Ouch, yeah it's not cheap, I got an electronic copy for much less.

 

[Sellick]

Thank you so much everyone.

I went back and forth about if this is technically an extract beer. I'm a little confused about extract with grains vs partial mash. All mine so far have been this extract with grains style, but at least one was referred to as partial mash. Can a Mod move this thread to the correct section?

I've decided that, with this being my first Lager, I'd rather wait and do it right than risk chancing it. Didn't think to check the date on the yeast when I bought it (I'm new, forgive me), says best before May of this year, so it's old. I'm definitely going to make sure I've got some good and active yeast before I start on this Lager!

Thanks for the link to that calculator, that's much better than the one I found.

How do you measure the amount of yeast that you have? I was reading in one thread that 1/2 to 3/4 cup is a good amount of yeast to pitch for a Lager... does that translate to "approx X billion yeast cells"? Didn't find that anywhere here. That seems like a lot of yeast, but I've yet to do a lager.

 

[TheBigLebrewsk1]

Thank you so much everyone.

I went back and forth about if this is technically an extract beer. I'm a little confused about extract with grains vs partial mash. All mine so far have been this extract with grains style, but at least one was referred to as partial mash. Can a Mod move this thread to the correct section?

I've decided that, with this being my first Lager, I'd rather wait and do it right than risk chancing it. Didn't think to check the date on the yeast when I bought it (I'm new, forgive me), says best before May of this year, so it's old. I'm definitely going to make sure I've got some good and active yeast before I start on this Lager!

Thanks for the link to that calculator, that's much better than the one I found.

How do you measure the amount of yeast that you have? I was reading in one thread that 1/2 to 3/4 cup is a good amount of yeast to pitch for a Lager... does that translate to "approx X billion yeast cells"? Didn't find that anywhere here. That seems like a lot of yeast, but I've yet to do a lager.

Just to clarify, all grain and partial mashing undergo the saccharification process but allowing the amylase enzymes to "convert" a polysaccharide into a smaller chain monosaccharide so that the yeast can consume it. Extract with grain has the pre converted syrup or powder and a grain like crystal that adds color and starches. Ignore the jargon I added it just to be more specific. It obviously gets more technical. I have found that although I enjoy geeking out it doesn't have a strong correlation to my beer quality. We all can get nerdy about things but whether you have 110 billion cells instead of 120 billion but really your beer will be just fine.

Check Mr. malty out for more yeast info.

 

[tootal]

We've been brewing award winning lagers for a few years yet we are not versed in the art of lager yeast. We brew ten gallon batches and use 2 slap packs from Wyeast, usually Bavarian lager but also Munich and American. Never had any problems and beers were really good. I do understand it's better to over pitch than under pitch but from our experience it's never been an issue.