My first brewing experience and where to go from here?

[lostmind]

Hey all,

So I have been reading (a ton) about homebrewing the past month or more. I don't quite know why, as I am not a huge beer drinker (more of a wine guy, I guess) but for some reason making your own beer is very appealing.

I think what really caught me was the all grain stovetop "brew in a bag" guide on this site. That just seems like... starting at ground zero, absolute control over what goes into your beer... and the sheer simplicity of it - no giant crazy contraptions required.

So I found the only real homebrew supply store in Vancouver here. I waltz in and start asking questions of the owner (beermaking.ca) and he gets pretty upset that I've read a guide on the internet and think I can go and make my own all grain beer. Not wanting to upset the guy, as he is pretty much the only homebrew store in town, but also because he seems like a decent sort of guy - I let him talk me into doing a brown ale extract brew with a small bag of freshly ground grains, two bags of hops, 8lbs of pale malt in a giant bucket and a packet of dry yeast. Plus I bought the homebrew starter kit with the plastic primary fermentor, 5gallon carboy, misc supplies.

Anyways, I brewed that batch and it was quite fun. Wort tasting was fun (I sanitised 4 different spoons for tasting!), the whole process was pretty neat and I enjoyed it. I made a couple of mistakes I think:

I rehydrated the yeast in water that was a bit too cold (20-25c). So it wasn't super active (but it was bubbling after I added a few tbsp's of wort).

I overcooled? the wort by filling the sink with cold water and ice cubes. I brought it down to 18-19c in 15 mins by stirring the wort with a sanitised spoon and making 4 different ice baths...

I topped up the wort in the primary fermentor with water that was also too cold (room temp, about 17-18c) using previously boiled water.

I added (pitched?) the yeast and put the bucket in my basement bathroom, which is only 14c. The next morning I woke up, saw no activity in the airlock and moved the primary fermentor upstairs and within hours it was bubbling like mad.

So I hope this still tastes decent but we'll see. Great learning experience regardless.

I have to get bottles still and I need to move the beer to the carboy in a couple days... But after that...

What do I do? Brew more extract beer? Try all grain in a bag? What's the consensus of the folks on the forum here? Am I nuts to try and follow this guide?:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-stovetop-all-grain-brewing-pics-90132/

Thanks for your input!

 

[Poindexter]

My stock response is practice hitting mash temps while you are "just" steeping.

When you can consistently steep your grain at say 155°F, then you are ready to mash.

Sorry, I don't think in metric and I am in my second pint, so, uhh, like do the math when you are sober, cause I'll just make a mesof it.

How about for your second batch you "steep" 1/2 pound of Crystal 10 and two pounds of Vienna base malt (the light colored 3-4°L stuff with active enzymes in it? You'll need some hops, and about 3 kg of liquid malt extract.

This will both turn out to be excellent beer if you do hit mash temps, and pretty good if you end up running an off temperature steep. The actual recipe is "EdWort's Haus Pale Ale." I have never seen it anywhere in the recipe section except near the top of page one in the American Pale Ale portion of the recipe section.

What kind of hops do you like, or which commercial beers have hops in them that you like?

 

[Marsdude]

What do I do? Brew more extract beer? Try all grain in a bag? What's the consensus of the folks on the forum here? Am I nuts to try and follow this guide?:

My advice would be do what YOU want to do. I have found that, although helpful, your local home brew supply personnel don't know everything and they tend to try to steer people to what they know.

Many people start out brewing AG. Although I am an extract brewer, I have read that guide and it is IMHO a great way to try AG. I will try this myself as soon as I get a bigger pot.

 

[152Sumo]

My advice would be do what YOU want to do. I have found that, although helpful, your local home brew supply personnel don't know everything and they tend to try to steer people to what they know.
QUOTE]

+1. I asked LHBS employee about primary fermenting only. He looked at me like I was crazy and said "I always secondary. I don't like to chew my beer"

after reading more on HBT, I made my own decision and did primary only. My beer turned out fine.

 

[Chuck_Swillery]

Sounds like it'll turn out fine to me ESPECIALLY since it was your very first batch.

I find it interesting the gent was somewhat offended by your wanting to try an all grain batch as your first. Sounds like he felt threatened by a "rookie" taking on such a "lofty" endeavor fresh out of the gate. Probably part of his psyche that felt like you were taking a little something away from him because you were skipping the extract part. Sure, there is a lot to learn from extract but if you have studied and feel its the way to go - go for it. None-the-less, he's likely a good guy and you're going to an all extract/steep brew for your first won't be a bad decision. Hang in there!

 

[lostmind]

I'm not exactly sure why he wasn't very happy to hear I wanted to go all grain. Maybe he was worried I'd mess something up and blame him? Who knows. Like I said, he seems like a good enough guy so...

I think I have to browse the recipe section and find something good to try out for round two. I've been really craving a wheat beer lately... I wonder how hard they are to brew. Of course something like an augustiner helles would be amazing but I think I can not reproduce this at home.

Now to find someone to ship me a 2'x2' nylon bag for all grain brewing. Morebeer.com doesn't seem to want to...

 

[Nurmey]

Welcome to HBT!

It sounds like you did everything very good. I think it's a little strange that he steered you away from all grain but he probably didn't know anything about brew in a bag so directed you to what he knows.

One thing I would caution you about is moving to secondary too soon. Yeast can not read a calendar and it finishes its job on its own timetable. Alternatively, you could just leave your beer in primary for 3 or 4 weeks and bottle. I leave all my beers for 4 weeks whether I am using a secondary or not because it allows the yeast to ferment, clean up off flavors, and clear the beer.

Wheat beers are very good starting beers. You might want to get a blow off rig before you brew the wheat because they are known for pretty big krausens.

 

[lostmind]

Thanks Nurmey!

My airlock has already slowed down significantly. I'll definitely give it till then end of next weekend before racking to the carboy. I brewed this on last thursday, so next sunday is nearly 10 days. Of course my schedule is a bit busy so it may get pushed till the weekend after that, which would be closer to 16 or 17 days.

It's good to hear that keeping it in primary for that long won't cause any off flavours.

 

[lostmind]

And thanks for the tip on the blow off setup for wheat beers. I'm heavily leaning in that direction for the next brew so it'll come in handy.

 

[caspio]

I think the shopowner probably deals with a ton of people who hear about brewing and try to dive in without doing any research at all. Then, he loses them as customers when their first batch comes out crappy. Customers like yourself who've taken the time to really read a lot of different information are not the norm.

That being said, there's nothing wrong with starting off with extract. I did two extract batches, one with steeping grains, and then a series of partial mashes. Each time I did a PM I increased the amount of grain, until at one point I was doing AG. While I think I could have jumped straight to AG, starting with extract did give me the opportunity to iron some of the kinks out of my process.

As other folks have said, the final decision comes down to what YOU want to do. Personally, I prefer all-grain because I enjoy building recipes and the flexibility using grain gives you. However, there are tons of folks out there brewing award winning beers with extract.

 

[whatisitgoodfor]

Nothing wrong with starting with AG brewing, assuming you have the pots to do it with (for some reason most normal people don't have a 30L pot in their kitchen.)

Starting with extract just lets you get the second half of the process down before you add in the first half. It also lets you get by with more normal kitchen utensils before investing in the exotic stuff.

If you can't find any of the large bags at your LHBS, give your local building supply places a shot. It's perfectly valid to use nylon paint strainer bags for brewing. I haven't tried using BIAB for wheat beers, but I can't imagine it would have any problems except maybe a slightly slow drain from the bag (probably not enough to notice.)

You might have a little bit of trouble getting your wheat beer warm enough for good ester production, 20C is a good point for a nice rich fruity pebbles level of flavor. And yes, as soon as you start going AG, blow off tubes are a must (even though it is fun having your first "OMG I painted the ceiling" post.)

 

[lostmind]

Caspio, I do think you are correct. I bet he's had a few people freak out about bad beer following advice they've found on the interwebs!

Like I said, the extract with the steeped grains (like making tea!) was still plenty of fun.

whatisitgoodfor, 20c is optimal for wheat beers? Hmmm, the main floor of the house is kept at 20c. I wonder if I can find a closet away from my 18 month old's chubby little fingers...

I like the wheat beers because of the fruity flavours. Maybe I'll bring that brew to the office to ferment. I'm self employed so I'm sure the boss won't mind...

 

[whatisitgoodfor]

Most of the recipes that I've looked at for Hefs want them fermented at 20. It's also a good idea to pick up a stick on thermometer, so that you have a better idea of what temperature the beer is at instead of the temperature the air around it is. (During fermentation the beer can be 3-5 degrees warmer than the air around it, so if you've got a spot that stays in the 16-18 range you should be all set.)

If you LHBS doesn't carry those liquid crystal fermometers, you can pick one up at a pet store (they're used for aquariums and terrariums.) Here's one at a major US chain for $3.

 

[KevinW]

Nothing wrong at all with extract or all-grain. Both can produce some awesome beers. I have done both and to be honest, I like all-grain because it is so much cheaper.
Of course, the equipment differences can have a little more up front cost with AG but I can brew 5 gall of good beer for about $23.00. Same beer as extract would be about $37.00.
My LHBS guy grilled me as well when I wanted to do my first AG batch and I was a little annoyed but my beer still came out good. Hah!

 

[Nugent]

In defense of both the LHBS that OP is speaking of (I live five minutes from it and am there at least once every two weeks), and more importantly, of the OP (Welcome to the forum, fellow Lower Mainlander), I feel that I have a decent sense of the situation from a local perspective.

The LHBS in question has been in business in Vancouver for over twenty years - much longer than the Internet has been a useful tool for this craft. The owner definitely knows his stuff and, while he may not be always be up on the newest "info" from forums like HBT, he is very, very knowledgeable about homebrewing. He has a refreshing 'cut-through-the-cr@p' attitude, which can be interpreted as arrogance. I don't agree with everything that he feels is the right way to do things, but he has provided a lot of wisdom to the HB community in the Vancouver area.

That being said ... the OP is really taking the right attitude to homebrewing - study, ask questions and, ultimately, follow your own gut on things. As homebrewers, we create beer based on our own research, and long-term trial and error. The responses that we get from our LHBS or HBT forums are based on both opinion and experience. I respect both. Both sources have made me a better brewer. I started with extract and moved onto all-grain; the progression worked for me.

If the LHBS (or HBT members) challenge(s) us about our ideas, we can either listen or keep searching for other answers.

That's the beauty of this craft.

 

[lostmind]

Hey Nugent!

There definitely is a lack of other shops around town. Like I said, I get the impression the store owner is a pretty good guy, but he definitely was not impressed with me when I came in. I'm gonna go visit him again sometime this week to pick up some bottles I think.

And pick his brain about my next batch of beer

I still haven't even actually brewed my first batch though! lol might be jumping the gun a bit.

 

[lostmind]

Well, just for a fun update.

Went back to the local shop, bossman was there, but I didn't get a chance to talk to him.

However, a staff member helped me out, was very friendly. Got my bottles and things should be good... I'm going to wait a few weeks before I think about batch #2 though