My First AG-BIAB: What I learned.

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LakewoodHomeBrew

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My first attempts into All-Grain, Brew-In-A-Bag brewing were filled with failure, correction, and improvement - with much learning between two different brews.

My first brew, an Octoberfest-style Ale kicked off Saturday evening. I gathered up my grains (for both the Octoberfest beer and the Scottish Ale I would brew on Sunday...more on this later), and headed over to Rozi's (LHBS) to use the grain mill they have on premise...free of charge. I did a test on the grinder with a handfull of grains and wasn't too thrilled with the output - not much of a crush. I asked the store owner if we could adjust the setting, to which he replied: "Nope. It's set for what you need." I didn't particularly care for this answer, but I didn't want to pay the extra $$ to buy the hand-crank corona grain mill that was on the shelf, so I decided I'd just roll with it. Got the grains home, and did some manual crushing of my own using a rolling pin - it helped very little. So I said screw it - let's roll.

I loaded my grains up in three separate grain bags and mashed in with a 2:1 water(qt):grain(lb) ratio. This meant that I would be rinsing my grains (since it's BIAB, I can't really call it sparging) with the remaining water needed to get to boil volume. I had decent temp control - not the best I've done, but certainly not the worst, and most everything went to plan: mashed @ 152 for 65 minuts. At the end of the day, I took a gravity reading: 1.034. Target was 1.050. That's a whopping 46% efficiency. Ouch. Now I had to rack my brain to figure out how to fix this before my 2nd brew of the weekend, which was scheduled for the next morning.

The bright side to this is that I'm going to pitch some harvested Pacman yeast (from a brew my buddy did) into this batch. I had very little yeast to start with and the 700mL starter I made up on Saturday is still going gang-busters this morning. I'll probably pitch tonight or tomorrow morning into the Octoberfest, which should give the yeast some very easy work to build up the colony. I imagine I'll be harvesting it by next weekend.

Sunday morning, my second AG BIAB: A Scottish Ale. I decided that the crappy grain crush was one of the primary contributors to poor efficiency. So I went back to the LHBS, purchased the corona grain mill and re-crushed the grain to my liking. I'm already happy with the purchase - although I over-paid. I then decided that three constrained grain bags were limiting how much surface area of the grain was in contact with the water, so I swung by Sherwin Williams and picked up a 5 gal. nylon paint strainer bag and lined my pot with it. I also decided that I could fit more water in my kettle than I had been using, so I mashed in with as close to the full volume as possible (the mash water was at the brim). This was a small batch, 2.5 gal, so I mashed in with 3 gal, leaving a half gallon that would need to be added before the start of the boil. Kicked off the mash, things went mostly well - I did a crappy job @ temp control for the first half hour or so, but after that all was smooth: mashed @ 150-156 for the first half hour, before settling in @ 153 for the remainder (75 min total mash time). At Mash out, I let the bag drain and then squeezed the crud out of it. I then placed it in the half gallon "sparge water" to soak for 15 min, after which I squeezed and let the bag drip again before adding the second batch of water to the boil kettle.

This brew, I decided I'd take a reading of the pre-boil gravity. Although it took half an hour to cool the reading down, it was still useful. Pre-boil: 1.049. That was a 68% efficiency. WooHoo! Not as high as I'd like, but I'll take a 20 point increase any day. Continued with the brew without any major event, and @ the end of the day, I was still sitting @ 68% efficiency.

Now that I feel I am on the right track, I think I only need to make minor tweeks to my process for improvements. First - I think my grain crush was still a bit on the coarse side - but now that I have my own mill, I can easily adjust this. Secondly - I need to steady out my temperature control, but that will be easier the more I do this. I had been pretty good on previous brews, but I think I was just being overly excited being my first attempt at AG. Third - I need to settle on a Mash-Out method that works for me. I think the batch sparging was more effective than the rinsing I had done previously, but I am sure there is room for improvement here. Lastly - I think I jumped into AG way before I was ready. There are plenty of concepts to understand before I think I'll feel comfortable. While "trial by fire" is sometimes the best way to learn, I don't particularly want to drink too many "mistakes," unless they're delicious mistakes....then it might not be so bad!

I'm not looking for comments or feedback - although they are certainly welcome - I'm just posting this as a way for me to track what I've done, and openly think through my problems, as well as share some things that I learned.
 
Thanks for this awesome write-up! As someone who is considering the jump to AG, I appreciate you sharing your experience. It will help me out when I finally decide to go to AG! :)
 
Cool, I'll share my experience with the 2 BIAB's I've tried. First one I hit 68%. I really liked the BIAB part of it, but wished I had hit a little higher numbers. Last night I hit 81% with BIAB #2 and was very happy with that. Here's what changed.

- Used my brew buddies nice grain crusher. Also pre-crushed my next 2 batches while I was at it. My first batch I did the rolling pin too and not much gain for the effort.
- Corrected my thermometer. I calibrated it in ice water and boiling water (corrected for alititude). It reads 4-5 degrees lower than truth, so I now adjust for that. My first batch was actually mashed between 155 and 156. Second was near 149. Also went 70 minutes instead of 60.
- Added a mash out step where I brought the grain up to 170 prior to dunk sparging @ 170 for 10 minutes. Also really gave those grains a final squeeze. Tasted them at the end and not much sugar left
- Water remained the same. I pulled the water report for my city and dilute with RO from the grocery store to hit targets.

If I can maintain 80%, I don't really feel the need to change anything. Really informative site here too.
 
sparging @ 170 for 10 minutes. Also really gave those grains a final squeeze. Tasted them at the end and not much sugar left

I did my first BIAB over the weekend as well, and I did the same thing. I brought the temp up to 170 and let it sit for almost 10 min, I think that is a crucial step. My efficiency calculated at 76% for the first time since going all-grain. Before I used the standard cooler with a braided hose and couldn't get more than 60% efficiency.

Hang in there bro, you're still gonna have good beer! :rockin:
 
OP, I dont think there is such thing moving to AG too early. You sound like you know twice what I knew when I made the jump to all grain. My feeling is that there is only so much you can learn by reading; you have to actually have the hands-on experience to really get a good handle on it.
 
The bright side to this is that I'm going to pitch some harvested Pacman yeast (from a brew my buddy did) into this batch. I had very little yeast to start with and the 700mL starter I made up on Saturday is still going gang-busters this morning. I'll probably pitch tonight or tomorrow morning into the Octoberfest, which should give the yeast some very easy work to build up the colony. I imagine I'll be harvesting it by next weekend.

Pacman krausen had subsided this AM so I pitched. Prior to pitching, I took the primary bucket that the Octoberfest had been sitting in, and shook the heck out of it. Opened the lid to pitch, and I was greeted by a not so pleasant, somewhat sour and faintly sugary smell. I've never done a delay pitch before - so it's hard for me to say if this is normal...but it has me concerned.

But, I figured that there weren't many sugars in the wort anyway, due to the poor process described in post #1, so I might as well pitch and see what happens. I've stashed it away now - I'll probably check for activity tonight, and then just let it do its thing (easier said than done).
 
I have never done a delayed pitch either. I'm pulling for you on that one, but if it's been 36-40 hours since the wort cooled off...I just hope some other wild yeast or bacteria have not gotten a head start on it.

I've always had concerns with infecting a starter, so I usually carry a packet of dry Windsor or Nottingham just in case. IMO, I'd rather pitch a yeast that wasn't true to style than risk waiting for another starter to be up and ready. Two pennies.

I'm assuming you already pitched the yeast for your Scottish Ale?
 
I'm assuming you already pitched the yeast for your Scottish Ale?

Yes - but that's a different "problem." I used Wyeast Scottish Ale on that one (1728). My first time using a smack pack. I let it warm to room temp, smacked, and let it incubate for 3-4 hrs before pitching. I'll say that the internal packet was definitely broken, but there was very little swelling to speak of. It was getting late, so I pitched it anyway. This is also the first time I've pitched direct without a starter. Oh, and I typically aerate using a venturi, but I got lazy and didn't do that either - I just poured and shook. That was Sunday night. By this AM - zero activity - I cracked the lid...wort shows no signs of anything. I guess I shouldn't have broken from my tried and true practices...

So, since my stir plate just became free this morning, I put the bucket on it. I have run tests previously with water - I get a pretty good stir with a 1 inch bar for volumes as large as 3 gallons. Up at 5 gallons, there was some movement, but limited. Good news is that this is a 2.5 gallon batch! So, I washed up, sanitized, and reached in to place a stir bar in the wort. Flipped the switch, verified it was spinning, and I buttoned up. I'll check that one tonight - if there is still no activity, I'll pick up another yeast packet to pitch.

One important thing of note is that the Scottish Ale did not have the same odor as the Octoberfest - it still smelled nice & sweet like I expected. This, of course, increases my concerns on that beer. But, again, all I can do is wait it out and then learn from any mistakes.
 
Don't sweat the swelling of the WYeast pack. My 3787 was maybe half swelled, pitched direct with no starter, and my lag time was maybe 4-8 hours longer than with a healthy starter. I also usually do starters, but wasn't home this weekend and Sunday was brew day.

Also if you shook your Scottish Ale for 1-2 minutes, there should be plenty of O2 to get going. It's not like you have a 1.095 Barleywine or something. I would turn off the stir bar.
 
I realize I probably jumped the gun - as of the time I moved things along, it had been less than 36 hours. But that was still feeling kind of long for me.
 
My Beginners Luck

I agree, it's never too soon to start all grain. It might be good to do a few more small batches just to get used to mashing out/your mash process.

A year ago I think was my first AG with a clone of Great Divide's Chocolate Oak Aged Yetti with 20lbs of grain/5.5gal batch. What an undertaking! I crushed mine twice through the the brew shop mill and used muslin grain sacs. I washed the heck out of that grain to make sure I got aaaaall the sugars out! The whole process took me all day and I was worried that it wouldn't turn out very well.

Somehow by the grace of God it turned out an absolute hit. Everyone agreed it was very close to the original and according to our experience, it hit just as hard (9.5%)! I just went over my journal from this batch and though rough, it looks like I may have actually hit over 80% efficiency!

Three points: 1) homebrewtalk.com/wiki has a setup for a DIY mash tun, I recommend it but with a longer braided STEEL/METAL filter especially if you crush finer. 2) I could see a few whole kernels from the hb shop's mill so I ran it twice through. 3) If you do mill it finer prepare to have good filtration and let your runoff settle before siphoning it off. That way you can avoid getting grain hulls in the boil and avoid my sadness from my first AG batch which was 1/4-1/2 gallons lost to an enormous amount of trub!

My beginners luck nailed the principle of relax, it will actually work out in the end and you'll have beer! -Cheers!
 
Don't sweat the swelling of the WYeast pack. My 3787 was maybe half swelled, pitched direct with no starter, and my lag time was maybe 4-8 hours longer than with a healthy starter.

I should have checked the date on the yeast package and I simply forgot. I'm guessing it was just old yeast. It finally started showing signs of activity last night.
 
The 3787 I just pitched was 5 months old!!! I wasn't real happy about it, but I did ask my wife to make a special stop on her way home. The other 2 brewshops in town carry much fresher stuff, but they are not nearly as close. I think I'll make the drive next time.

The batch in my primary right now is extremely vigorous, 3787 always is. It's day 4 now and the activity appears to be winding down rapidly.
 
The first BIAB I did was a mash with about 6 gallons of water + 2 gallons for the sparge. Efficiency was about 65%. I've since started doing 8 gallon mashes with no sparge and a 10 minute mash out and my efficiency is 80%+ on the last 4 batches. You might also try a longer mash, like 75 minutes or even 90 minutes.
 
Did a partial mash yesterday with 7.5 lbs grain plus DME, but took steps to improving my AG process. Did a finer crush on my grain, switched up my grain bag from a nylon paint strainer to a home-made voile bag (super fine mesh - worked awesome, except I burned a small hole in it). Dough-in @ 120 with a 20 min beta-protein rest into 11.5qts. Increase to 154 for saccharification with constant stirring during temp rise. Mash for 75 min @ 150-154 (set temp to 154, killed heat, check every 15 min, re-apply heat if necessary). After 75 min, raise to mashout temp (168) and hold for 10 min - again, constant stirring during temperature rise. Remove grain bag and squeeze & drain. Afterwards, batch sparge into 3.5 qts pre-heated to 170 - let soak for 10 min, remove, squeeze & drain. Add sparge back into kettle.

I measure gravity here, prior to adding any of my DME. I hit around 78% efficiency to this point. I could've hit higher, but lost some of my first runnings when I first removed the grain bag from the pot. The voile really holds everything in, and I didn't expect it to be holding so much wort...it was heavier than expected and I fumbled a bit. Once I let a good amount of wort drain out, I used a cooling rack across the top of the pot to support some of the weight so I could squeeze the bag. It took quite a while to get all of the runnings out. Messy process too - so I need to find a cleaner way to get this done.
 
Since you're only mashing 7 pounds of grain you may try using a pasta strainer or colander on top of the kettle to set the bag in while it drains. This should keep the dripping wort in the kettle and off your floor.
 
I did my first BIAB batch on Saturday and used thick rubber brewing gloves to pick up my grain bag and squeeze the wort out. I had zero mess and zero waiting for the bag to drain - worked wonderfully!
 

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