Mushy Curd Set-up

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LilMissMuffet

LilMissMuffet

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I'm a newbie trying to make cheese curds. I have made about 6 attempts with store bought whole milk, adding varying amounts of rennet (tablets), Calcium Chloride (which seems to add a bitter taste) Powdered milk...and on and on. I have tried temps above and below 90 degrees.
Every batch turns out about the same consistency; mushy.
I can strain for a crumbly consistency, which is tasty, but not what I want.
Anything else I can tell you?
LMM
 
Hi LMM and welcome. I make curd cheese almost every week. Never had a problem.
Here's my basic technique.
1. I bring my store bought whole milk to 90 F in a double boiler
2. I dissolve 1/4 t Ca Cl in 1/4 C distilled water and thoroughly mix in.
3. I add my culture (which is about 1/2 C of home made kefir - thoroughly mix in and let this stand for about 40 minutes to begin acidifying the milk
4. I dissolve 1/2 vegetarian rennet tablet in 1/4 C distilled water and mix in for about 30 seconds - 1 minute and let coagulate 40 minutes.
5 check for clean break
6. I cut curds (according to standard practice) and gently stir for 30 minutes as I raise temperature about 10 F OVER THE 30 MINUTES to about 100 F
7. I remove curds from whey and collect in cheese cloth lined colander and allow to drain 5 minutes
8. I hang cheese cloth and allow to drain for 15 minutes
9. I press for 60 minutes , turning every 15 minutes under weights that increase from about 4 lbs - 16 lbs
10. Under 16 lbs I cheddar the cheese for 30 minutes turning every 10 minutes. (to "cheddar", I cut the mass in half and use the weight of the cheese to help drain the curds, but I also use the 16 lbs during this time too (2 gallon milk containers filled with water).
11. I cut the cheese into cubes and salt and allow the salt to pressed under a plate for 5 minutes.
12 I place the curd cheese in container and store in fridge
The whole process including sanitizing and cleaning up afterwards takes about 4.5 - 5 hours.
 
Thank-you Bernard Smith.
So I am clear; during steps 1-5, the milk temp is kept at 90 degrees?
What is the worst that could happen if that temp varies from 82-112 (+-)? ie: sitting on one end of that range for minutes at a time?
I am trying to make the curds in an InstantPot. It can hold a steady temp, but it is hard to get it spot on 90. I have to pack a layer of SOMETHING" (Yet to be determined) between the pot and the heat or the temp settles at about 112. If I use the LOW setting, it never exceeds 88.
LMM
 
Others with far more knowledge (and experience) than I have may disagree but I think that the temperature is not very critical. This for two reasons: 1. In the past, no one had access to thermometers but cheese has been made for millennia. AND
2. Look at any recipe and the critical temperatures are rarely the same. Ninety degrees is enough to help meso philic bacteria grow without killing them and is not hot enough to encourage the growth of thermo-philic bacteria.

But that said, I guess I use technology only when it is necessary and a double boiler that is a smaller kettle filled with the milk, set inside a larger kettle filled with hot water with the hot water heating the milk will easily control the temperature. And the milk itself has enough thermal mass to help ensure that it will not overly cool quickly. A towel wrapped around the larger kettle will maintain the temperature you want AND you can easily increase the temperature of the water slowly EITHER by adding more hot water or by switching on the burner or plate under the kettle...

I wonder whether the problem may be located with your rennet. Are you getting a clean break? If you are using rennet for junket (that is too weak rennet) or you are using rennet that is no longer working then you may not be getting a clean break and without a good clean break your curds will be "mushy". Also if you stir the curds too aggressively you can damage their skins and again the curds will be very squishy and soft.
 
Thanks, again. I have, also, begun to suspect the rennet and have purchased some in liquid form.
Using room temperature butter as the reference, what consistency am I hoping to achieve before cutting?
 
Before cutting, a better more accurate analogy than butter is that if you stick a knife into the mass of curds and twist it , a "clean break" means that the mass is cut by the knife, remains separated, and the part that is on top of the blade does not slop over as if it is a liquid. It sits atop of the knife. If you slice into the mass and the curds behave much like milk then you do not have a clean break.
After you cut the curds you want to allow them to sit for about 5 minutes for the surfaces to "heal". Those cubes behave as semi-solid cubes and as you stir them GENTLY - you are helping to expel whey from their insides, so the curds over the next 30 minutes become smaller and more firm. They will shrink from about 1/2 inch cubes to cubes the size of dried peas or even smaller and they are quite firm. The heat (from 90F - 100F) also helps expel whey and (I think) helps the surface skin become more solid.
 
LilMissMuffet said:
I'm a newbie trying to make cheese curds. I have made about 6 attempts with store bought whole milk, adding varying amounts of rennet (tablets), Calcium Chloride (which seems to add a bitter taste) Powdered milk...and on and on. I have tried temps above and below 90 degrees.
Every batch turns out about the same consistency; mushy.
I can strain for a crumbly consistency, which is tasty, but not what I want.
Anything else I can tell you?
LMM
Click to expand...
I've never used the tablets, but I'd recommend finding some liquid rennet. I remember reading that those are meant for something else entirely, so not to be trusted.
Time might be your best bet. The longer you wait between adding rennet and cutting the curds, the more water that the curds absorb and the softer your curds will be. If you want some tight curds, try cutting after 45 minutes. Then stir gently and raise the temperature to 110. This assumes that the cheese gelled after 15 minutes.

If you want really dry curds, cut the curds, let curds settle/sink for a few minutes, ladle some of the whey out of them until the curds are showing, replace missing whey with warm water. Stir until those curds are hard. This is how swiss/alpine style cheeses are made (washed curds).
 
I routinely use tablet rennet. The rennet in tablet form that is unsuitable is rennet made for making junket. And that is rennet of much less strength. I can use a half tablet for a gallon of milk with no problem.
 
Update,
No real luck. Everthing happens at the temp it suppossed to, curdles some, but just not enough.
I end up with a little less why than I had milk and a cup full of soggy cottage cheesey-ish stuff.
Could it be the milk? Is it too much water and not enough...whatever?
Should I double the rennet as a first experiment?
Last night I increased the Citric Acid and ended up with a lemon smoothie with little chunks.
 
it may well be the pasteurization methods that the milk went through before you got it.
if they pasteurize above 180, it can make the milk essentially garbage for cheesemaking anything other than the acid coagulated cheeses (yogurt, chevre, rocamadour).

Do you have other sources (brands) of milk available to you?
 
essentially, the high heat pasteurization can damage the proteins needed for proper curd formation. no amount of rennet will 'fix' it.
 
LilMissMuffet said:
Update,
No real luck. Everthing happens at the temp it suppossed to, curdles some, but just not enough.
I end up with a little less why than I had milk and a cup full of soggy cottage cheesey-ish stuff.
Could it be the milk? Is it too much water and not enough...whatever?
Should I double the rennet as a first experiment?
Last night I increased the Citric Acid and ended up with a lemon smoothie with little chunks.
Click to expand...

I naturally acidify (with cultures), so I can't comment on the citric acid.

Make sure the milk is not "ultra-pasteurized". Most milk is not, and it will say on the container when it is. ALL organic milk in stores IS. Ultra-pasteurized milk won't make curds.
 
FromZwolle
Thank you, I will find another milk as you seem to suggest that could be the problem. Good answer...or a direction at least.
LMM
UP is no good for Cheese it seems, but it simplifies the yogurt process a bit.
 
FromZwolle said:
it may well be the pasteurization methods that the milk went through before you got it.
if they pasteurize above 180, it can make the milk essentially garbage for cheesemaking anything other than the acid coagulated cheeses (yogurt, chevre, rocamadour).

Do you have other sources (brands) of milk available to you?
Click to expand...

haha, we were having the same thoughts at the same time. But you beat me to it.
 
Even milk that is not pasteurized at high temps need added calcium carbonate to help repair the proteins. Are you adding Ca Cl (about 1/4 t dssolved in about 1/4 C distilled water) once it reaches the temperature you are ripening it at). But you are using acidity to ripen the milk...Might you be over acidifying the milk? Very acidic milk will not make the curds you are looking for. I suspect that the real problem is not the milk but your method of acidifying the milk. (of course if you are using ultra high pasteurized milk then acidity is not the primary problem.
 
I am, apparently, quite sensitive to CC. I have used it and found the lumpy product to taste metallic. It did not make any significant difference to the curd quality anyway, so I stopped.
Today I am going out to find a different milk brand. Something known to NOT pasteurize at high temps.
Brands from this list :
Finding the right milk for cheese making
are all "near me", according to Google.
Will report back-in later today.
 
Mozzarella ? That is perhaps the most difficult cheese to make. The specific level of acidity is critical. Too little or too much and the cheese will not stretch and too much and the cheese becomes grainy and not at all smooth. If you successfully made a batch of Mozz you should pat yourself on the back and take a bow. :bravo:
 
Thanks. I'm crowing a little.
Beautiful texture but a little bland. Might need some kind of "Umph"...or just some time in the fridge?
 
LilMissMuffet said:
Sadly...the same.
Click to expand...

I've made cheese with the non-homogenized milk ("cream on top"). Worked fine. I think I found it in 1/2g at a Whole foods. But I've also made good cheese with standard cheap milk. I'd suggest keep experimenting with different brands of the cheap stuff until you find one that makes good curds.

I also have a source for raw goat and cow milk. THAT is the good stuff, man. But even at the local co-op market, it's pretty expensive.
 
Within my limited experience; Standard, cheap milk may very well work if it is not UHT nor Ultra Pasteurized. It is hard to find such milk in St. Louis. Thanks for the input.
 
LilMissMuffet said:
Within my limited experience; Standard, cheap milk may very well work if it is not UHT nor Ultra Pasteurized. It is hard to find such milk in St. Louis. Thanks for the input.
Click to expand...

I don't want to be argumentative, but I'd guess that almost none of your grocery store milk is UHT. UHT means something very specific and it'll be marked that way if applicable. Typically, heavy cream, creamers, organic products, etc are UHT. If the milk only says "pastuerized", then it's not UHT.

I don't really know the details here. Might be good to google.
 
I have to believe that labels are accurate. The entire milk section of my grocery store is either UHT or Ultra-Pastureized and three of the brands resulted in the disaster that prompted me to start this thread.
I've Googled AND been to the source.
Ultra-pasteurized (UP) milk is heated to a minimum of 280° F and held for 2 seconds, while ultra-high temperature (UHT) milk is heated to temperatures between 275° and 300° F.
Apples and Apples.
Thanks for your input.
 
LilMissMuffet said:
I have to believe that labels are accurate. The entire milk section of my grocery store is either UHT or Ultra-Pastureized and three of the brands resulted in the disaster that prompted me to start this thread.
I've Googled AND been to the source.
Ultra-pasteurized (UP) milk is heated to a minimum of 280° F and held for 2 seconds, while ultra-high temperature (UHT) milk is heated to temperatures between 275° and 300° F.
Apples and Apples.
Thanks for your input.
Click to expand...

That's interesting. All the milk down here is NOT UP or UHT. I've been making cheese for a while and buying milk from all over and it's just not common to find it here.

Where are you?
 
That is interesting. I'm in St. Louis. Raw milk is apparently still available for sale here, but limited. Could that affect the retail market? hmmmm?
 
You might want to try this once to see if it will work for you: reconstituted milk powder. I have never used this but I suspect that it is made at lower temperatures and at lower pressure (in a vaccuum?). I cannot speak to how such cheese might taste when made but if the only milk you have available is UHT or equivalent then either shifting to powdered milk OR working with nuts to make vegan cheese might be practical solutions.
 
bernardsmith said:
Hi LMM and welcome. I make curd cheese almost every week. Never had a problem.
Here's my basic technique.
1. I bring my store bought whole milk to 90 F in a double boiler
2. I dissolve 1/4 t Ca Cl in 1/4 C distilled water and thoroughly mix in.
3. I add my culture (which is about 1/2 C of home made kefir - thoroughly mix in and let this stand for about 40 minutes to begin acidifying the milk
4. I dissolve 1/2 vegetarian rennet tablet in 1/4 C distilled water and mix in for about 30 seconds - 1 minute and let coagulate 40 minutes.
5 check for clean break
6. I cut curds (according to standard practice) and gently stir for 30 minutes as I raise temperature about 10 F OVER THE 30 MINUTES to about 100 F
7. I remove curds from whey and collect in cheese cloth lined colander and allow to drain 5 minutes
8. I hang cheese cloth and allow to drain for 15 minutes
9. I press for 60 minutes , turning every 15 minutes under weights that increase from about 4 lbs - 16 lbs
10. Under 16 lbs I cheddar the cheese for 30 minutes turning every 10 minutes. (to "cheddar", I cut the mass in half and use the weight of the cheese to help drain the curds, but I also use the 16 lbs during this time too (2 gallon milk containers filled with water).
11. I cut the cheese into cubes and salt and allow the salt to pressed under a plate for 5 minutes.
12 I place the curd cheese in container and store in fridge
The whole process including sanitizing and cleaning up afterwards takes about 4.5 - 5 hours.
bernardsmith said:
Hi LMM and welcome. I make curd cheese almost every week. Never had a problem.
Here's my basic technique.
1. I bring my store bought whole milk to 90 F in a double boiler
2. I dissolve 1/4 t Ca Cl in 1/4 C distilled water and thoroughly mix in.
3. I add my culture (which is about 1/2 C of home made kefir - thoroughly mix in and let this stand for about 40 minutes to begin acidifying the milk
4. I dissolve 1/2 vegetarian rennet tablet in 1/4 C distilled water and mix in for about 30 seconds - 1 minute and let coagulate 40 minutes.
5 check for clean break
6. I cut curds (according to standard practice) and gently stir for 30 minutes as I raise temperature about 10 F OVER THE 30 MINUTES to about 100 F
7. I remove curds from whey and collect in cheese cloth lined colander and allow to drain 5 minutes
8. I hang cheese cloth and allow to drain for 15 minutes
9. I press for 60 minutes , turning every 15 minutes under weights that increase from about 4 lbs - 16 lbs
10. Under 16 lbs I cheddar the cheese for 30 minutes turning every 10 minutes. (to "cheddar", I cut the mass in half and use the weight of the cheese to help drain the curds, but I also use the 16 lbs during this time too (2 gallon milk containers filled with water).
11. I cut the cheese into cubes and salt and allow the salt to pressed under a plate for 5 minutes.
12 I place the curd cheese in container and store in fridge
The whole process including sanitizing and cleaning up afterwards takes about 4.5 - 5 hours.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Hello again BernardSmith.
I've reread your curd cheese recipe multiple times, bought some Kefir grains to make enough milk for culture and am proceeding, assuming you started with a gallon of milk.
I will report back.
LMM
(actually a 65 year old male retiree, but liked the gravatar)
Kevin
 
Kevin, Acquiring kefir grains is like buying a pet. You have to feed the grains regularly. You need only about 1/4 C of kefir (made from the grains) to culture 1 US gallon of milk... but you are going to obtain about 1 -2 cups of kefir every 24 - 48 hours. Of course, if you enjoy kefir , more power to ya. But if drinking/eating kefir is not your thing you can (and I do) make a hard (or even soft) kefir cheese from the kefir you collect.
Once I have about 1 gallon of kefir I drain the whey over about 12 hours and then increasingly add weights to the curds to press them so that I get a wheel of about 2 inches with a diameter of about 5 inches. After the initial pressing under about 4 lbs of weight (too much pressure too quickly will squeeze out more than the whey) I add salt and herbs or spices (about 1 T of each).

BUT, the thing about using kefir made from your own grains is that you never have to buy any lab produced cultures. Kefir possesses both mezzo and thermo cultures. It doesn't have P. Roqueforti but it does have the cultures with which you can make brie and Marcellin.
 
Last edited:
You are an encyclopedia, Bernard Smith...and I appreciate you.
Regarding curd cheese; I am a Wisconsinite and have an idea of what I expect from a cheese curd. What I nearly ended up with was a mushy blob of something that could never had been "Cut into Cubes".
I reverted to the heat and stretch and heat mozerella procedure. I rescued it and instead of making a ball, stretched and twisted the "rope of cheese", folded it onto itself, and pressed overnight.
I made something like string-cheese and if I'd cut it into curd sizes pieces before pressing, might have a reasonable facsimile of cheese curds.
Nice and chewy, not "squeaky".
I , once again, underestimated the salt needed. It kind of scares me how much salt is needed.
I DID add some ground pepper and call it a success.

I will try your Kefir cheese later today.
LMM
 
I've been making milk kefir and also using it as a starter to make a fromage blanc soft cheese. I notice if I let the kefir sit too long the whey will separate. Seems I'm partway to fromage blanc already, without the extra steps of heating/adding CaCl2 / adding rennet/ keeping warm overnight. So what is the difference between old separated kefir cheese and fromage blanc?
 
No expert but I suspect that the acidity level in kefir is much higher. The other day I made a batch of curd cheese using milk I had stored in the fridge for a week with the addition of kefir grains (I was not in a position to feed the grains as I normally do and was using the large volume of milk (1 gallon) and the cold temps of the fridge to slow down the fermentation. Well, the milk did coagulate but was far more grainy than normal. And I suspect that that was because of the lower pH.
Normally, when I raise the temperature to 90 F to begin ripening the milk with kefir, the milk does not visible curdle (clabber) but this time it did. So... I would argue that you can certainly make soft cheese using the same techniques as you normally do using the kefir made from the grains BUT that cheese will not be the SAME cheese. Certainly, when I make cheese FROM kefir itself, I cannot use the same amount of rennet to help coagulate the milk. I have not tried using 4 times the amount of rennet but even doubling the amount has no effect because the milk is so acidic. Others with more experience or biochemical knowledge may understand things quite differently...
 
thanks for the comment. I recall reading somewhere that the optimal pH for adding rennet was around 6.0. I inoculated a batch of milk at 90F with 1/4 cup of kefir and monitored pH over the next hour or so. It only dropped a few 0.1's and was getting late and I needed to get some sleep so I added the rennet anyhow. The curds still set up pretty firm but I wonder if I should plan to wait longer next time for the kefir to acidify the milk down to 6.0 prior to adding the rennet?
 
But when one adds cultures to milk one waits - what? Forty minutes? An hour? If you are adding the recommended amount of culture whether dry or active (as with kefir etc) then in the normal recommended time your milk will have ripened to the desired level. But most parts of the process do not require many hours (pressing is the exception, as is air drying and aging)
That said, I generally treat cheese making much like I view cake baking: I use recipes because I assume that amounts and ingredients and temperatures are not easily substitutable. With bread making I don't use recipes because I am looking for outcomes and I know how to achieve the outcomes I want. Cake ain't forgiving. And although I do believe that cheese is as forgiving as bread (my own experience has been (limited though it is) that 100 F can be 115F without significant impact and constant stirring can be every five minutes (with ditto impact) and 8 lbs can be 16 lbs) ... In other words, when cheeses were made throughout history most folk who made them did not have the tools to accurately measure time, weight, or temperature...
 

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