Morgan's kit beer - SG stuck at 1012, 05 expected - bottle it?

[alwayssummer]

Hi everyone. I registered so I could ask for your expertise on my first batch of beer.

For Chinese New Year entertainment we went down to the local homebrew supply and purchased a Morgan's Premium Starter kit along with a can of their Frontier IPA (sessionable). Since we know nothing at all we listened avidly to the advice of the guys at the brew shop and were warned about the dangers of brewing too warm here in Singapore. I left with the impression that 21 deg C (70 for y'all) would be an excellent brewing temperature despite the instructions on the can.

Once we had all the supplies collected we watched all the YouTube videos from Morgan's and set about brewing up our first batch. Measured our OG at 1039. Singapore has chloramine in the water, so we brewed with bottled water and I suspect we didn't make enough efforts to aerate.

We pitched the yeast packet at 72 deg. Then diligently cooled the beer maintaining a relatively stable temperature of 70 deg. Never got any krausen, but after 6 days an SG reading of 1017 told us good things were happening. On the other hand, the instructions on the can said we should be nearly finished. We decided to let it warm up some and went up to 73. Days 9-11 we were still measuring SG at 1011.

Came to the conclusion that fermentation was stuck. Read a bunch of threads and decided to let it warm more to 79 deg and try stirring to see if we could reactivate. Now it's day 16 and we're still stalled at SG of 1011.

We're not shy about tasting things (best way to cook a good meal is to taste along the way, ought to apply to beer too, right?) and the beer tastes quite drinkable, but a hair sweet right now. I'm a little sad if we only get low 70s attenuation and brew a 3.5% alcohol beer.

Other observations. Our fermenter does not seal. Never saw anything through the bubbler. But the lid is transparent and we can see tiny bubbles still forming in the wort (which is pretty clear right now). We have decent carbonation still, which seems to regenerate even after having the lid off and stirring.

Now that I've had the lid off I'm a little paranoid about leaving it sit for a lot longer because I don't want it to get infected.

Questions:

1. Should I bottle it?
2. If I bottle it, should I add proofing sugar? According to my calculations I have 13g sugar/L that didn't ferment, and that's significantly more sugar than we would add for bottle proofing.

Thanks for reading.

 

[alwayssummer]

As an aside, I've read a lot in the past few hours about air through the bubbler even though SG is no longer moving. Let me take a moment to explain why, since I'm actually pretty decent at chemistry.

We're turning glucose into ethanol and C02.
C6H12O6 → 2 C2H5OH + 2 CO2
180.2g → 2 * 46.1g + 2 * 44.0g
(180.2g turns into 180.2g, that's good)

But the important distinction is that your 92.2g of ethanol are in liquid form but your 88g of CO2 are gaseous. Given a density of 0.789 g/mL for ethanol, you've made only 72.7 mL of alcohol (2.45 fl oz). However, at room temperature 88g of CO2 makes 44.8 L. Let's assume you need one mL to make a gas bubble go through the airlock and you're seeing a bubble pass through every minute. 44.8L is 44,800 mL, or 44,800 bubbles, which would be a full month of bubbles at one bubble per minute. But all that gas only consumed 180g of sugar, which in a 23L fermenter (6 gal) only reduces your SG by 0.003 (in a month!). That would be a daily change of just 0.0001 in the SG.

I see lots of people trying to explain air bubbles through the air lock in terms of temperature expansions and contractions. It's much simpler than that: fermentation is still happening quickly enough to make a little CO2, but not fast enough to produce significant alcohol or reduce your SG.

I've entertained myself writing this, I hope some other folks find it useful. Happy to add more details and sources if anyone is interested. Happy brewing!

 

[Soulshine2]

what yeast did you use?
what is its working range temperature?
what is its attenuation?
your OG seems low ,but thats not really the issue
is it possible your fermenter lid is not sealing correctly? or the seal the airlock is in...
day 16 it should be finished .
need more info

 

[alwayssummer]

what yeast did you use?
what is its working range temperature?
what is its attenuation?
your OG seems low ,but thats not really the issue
is it possible your fermenter lid is not sealing correctly? or the seal the airlock is in...
day 16 it should be finished .
need more info

Thanks for the reply.

Unfortunately, on yeast, the best answer I can give is: the packet taped to the top of the can. The strain was not labeled. The can says to ferment between 71 and 86 degrees (the guys at the homebrew shop made it sound like the more we're at the bottom, the better). It also states FG should be 1005 or below.

Morgan's calls this a sessionable IPA, so I expect they're aiming for roughly 4.5% ABV (maybe less?). OG near 40 should do that, no?

For sure the fermenter lid is not sealing correctly, when I removed it for stirring I noticed a pretty significant lip where the shell was molded together. I'm pretty sure the rubber seal in the lid will be too firm to make a nice seal over such a big bump.

 

[Soulshine2]

so, my take on this is its an extract kit?
was it past its use by date?
generic yeast...most likely an ale yeast being that warm of a range.
I have yet to get 1.005 for a FG and I've done several AG batches .Mine stop around 1.008 ...negligible.
with your OG of 1.039 to a FG of 1.005 comes out to 4.46%Abv. If you bottled it now, 1.011 is at 3.68%abv, Not terrible but sessionable as it stated. thats ok.
let it ride another couple days and recheck the gravity. if its still at 1.011 , Id call it finished. Do NOT trust the bubbles to be done. I had one go 18 days ,still chugged away . I did a gravity check and it was done and just off gassing .

 

[alwayssummer]

so, my take on this is its an extract kit?
was it past its use by date?
generic yeast...most likely an ale yeast being that warm of a range.
I have yet to get 1.005 for a FG and I've done several AG batches .Mine stop around 1.008 ...negligible.
with your OG of 1.039 to a FG of 1.005 comes out to 4.46%Abv. If you bottled it now, 1.011 is at 3.68%abv, Not terrible but sessionable as it stated. thats ok.
let it ride another couple days and recheck the gravity. if its still at 1.011 , Id call it finished. Do NOT trust the bubbles to be done. I had one go 18 days ,still chugged away . I did a gravity check and it was done and just off gassing .

Yup, extract kit. Not past the expiration date. Remember this stuff is made for the Oz market, so probably they expect warmish temperatures for home brewers.

We hit SG of 1011 on day 9, now it's day 16. Do you think a couple more days is going to change the SG?

What about proofing sugar? Would you add it even if you suspect there are still fermentable sugars left?

 

[jrgtr42]

If your gravity is still at the same place a week later, I'm going to guess there are no more sugars. You've let it go at the highish end of most ales (I prefer letting it go around 60 - 62 F myself...)
When you bottle, definitely add some additional sugar (a few oz for a 5 gallon batch) (sorry, don't know the metric conversions offhand) to get something for the yeast to eat to carbonate.
I'm pretty convinced at this point that the makers of most of those kits don't really know how things work in the real world, after it's been sitting on a shelf for who knows how long.
In an ideal world, in the lab, with super fresh extract and yeast, they may hit that 1.005. If it was fermented hot, it might get there; not sure... but you'd end up with off flavors.
There's been conversations here and there that many extract kits poop out at around 1.020 - it's hard to get them to go much lower than that.
Anyways, you have beer at this point. You may want to let it go another few days just to make sure - you won't hurt it doing that.
Take this as a learning experience, and if you want to proceed in brewing, you can start getting more and different ingredients and building your own beers.

 

[RM-MN]

Yup, extract kit. Not past the expiration date. Remember this stuff is made for the Oz market, so probably they expect warmish temperatures for home brewers.

We hit SG of 1011 on day 9, now it's day 16. Do you think a couple more days is going to change the SG?

What about proofing sugar? Would you add it even if you suspect there are still fermentable sugars left?

Not all the sugars in your wort are fermentable and yeast has a mind of its own on when to stop eating anyway. The fact that your beer was 1.011 on day nine says it was probably done then. Most of my beers are done when the FG is 1.015 or a bit higher. Since your FG hasn't changed in the past week it is ready to bottle. Use a bottling sugar calculator to decide how much priming sugar to use and when it asks for the temperature that is the highest temperature it has been at since fermentation stopped.

 

[alwayssummer]

If your gravity is still at the same place a week later, I'm going to guess there are no more sugars. You've let it go at the highish end of most ales (I prefer letting it go around 60 - 62 F myself...)
When you bottle, definitely add some additional sugar (a few oz for a 5 gallon batch) (sorry, don't know the metric conversions offhand) to get something for the yeast to eat to carbonate.
I'm pretty convinced at this point that the makers of most of those kits don't really know how things work in the real world, after it's been sitting on a shelf for who knows how long.
In an ideal world, in the lab, with super fresh extract and yeast, they may hit that 1.005. If it was fermented hot, it might get there; not sure... but you'd end up with off flavors.
There's been conversations here and there that many extract kits poop out at around 1.020 - it's hard to get them to go much lower than that.
Anyways, you have beer at this point. You may want to let it go another few days just to make sure - you won't hurt it doing that.
Take this as a learning experience, and if you want to proceed in brewing, you can start getting more and different ingredients and building your own beers.

I'm fluent in both US customary and metric.

So you agree with the brew shop guys that cooler should make better beer?

60 is way outside the range on the side of the can. I remember reading that all Morgan's kits come with Mauribrew 514 Ale yeast (pdf), but threw away the packet. :/

Regarding the learning experience... we're still gonna drink it! It's not a lost batch or anything.

Not all the sugars in your wort are fermentable and yeast has a mind of its own on when to stop eating anyway. The fact that your beer was 1.011 on day nine says it was probably done then.

Thanks. We're going to bottle tonight. But this question is still nagging me: did it stop because the yeast quit or because the sugar was consumed? How do we know?

 

[RM-MN]

Thanks. We're going to bottle tonight. But this question is still nagging me: did it stop because the yeast quit or because the sugar was consumed? How do we know?

I think we find out when we drink the beer. If it has a bit of residual sweetness, there is sugar left. However, not all sugars are sweet either so that might not tell the true story either.

 

[jrgtr42]

I'm fluent in both US customary and metric.

So you agree with the brew shop guys that cooler should make better beer?

60 is way outside the range on the side of the can. I remember reading that all Morgan's kits come with Mauribrew 514 Ale yeast (pdf), but threw away the packet. :/

Regarding the learning experience... we're still gonna drink it! It's not a lost batch or anything.



Thanks. We're going to bottle tonight. But this question is still nagging me: did it stop because the yeast quit or because the sugar was consumed? How do we know?

Yeah, the yeast may work at higher temps, but depending on the yeast involved, it may result in what we call higher alcohols, or different flavors and aromas. (do some searching around the site about those.) IN some cases that's desirable, like with hefeweizens and saisons, but other times it's not.
I'm not familiar with that yeast specifically, but most ale yeasts work best in the mid-60s or so. They will work at a much wider range, though. In my case, the basement closet that I ferment in stays 60 - 62 year round, and in beers that I've compared in that range and mid - high 60s, there is a difference that's hard to put to words, but I like it better. Also it seems to drop brighter once done (the yeast drop out better, making the beer clearer.) It takes an extra couple days to fully ferment out, but I'm not on any schedule, so I don't have to rush things through.
doing the conversion, 15 Celsius is 60 Fahrenheit, so it seems that it'll work in that range. up to 90F.

As far as the rest it's most likely because the consumable sugars are done. If you've been raising the temp and there hasn't been any change, that's most likely the cause. 1.011 is a pretty reasonable FG, many beers end that way on purpose. I would go with what you have, and get ready for the next one.

 

[alwayssummer]

Bottled! Thank you for your advice. Now the hard part: waiting.

EDIT: Here in Singapore most folks live in apartment buildings with no basements. Our normal room temperature is usually above 80 degrees. We maintained our first batch at a lower temperature by putting the entire fermenter in a large cooler and changing ice packs with some frequency. It's easy to allow temperature excursions that way, which I've heard is bad for the yeast. Some people purchase wine fridges and ferment in a wine fridge. I see the appeal, but I would rather prove to myself that I can make beer I want to drink before I invest an extra $300. Long story short, high 60s make a reasonable target temperature for my region and equipment, but low 60s would be *a lot* of work to maintain.

 

[deadwolfbones]

Yeast quality is really important in brewing, so next time (even if it's still extract) you would be well-served to find fresh yeast and a known strain (even if it's dry, which it probably will be). Safale US-05 is a good all-purpose yeast that can handle a fairly wide temperature range.

 

[Druman07]

As an aside, I've read a lot in the past few hours about air through the bubbler even though SG is no longer moving. Let me take a moment to explain why, since I'm actually pretty decent at chemistry.

We're turning glucose into ethanol and C02.
C6H12O6 → 2 C2H5OH + 2 CO2
180.2g → 2 * 46.1g + 2 * 44.0g
(180.2g turns into 180.2g, that's good)

But the important distinction is that your 92.2g of ethanol are in liquid form but your 88g of CO2 are gaseous. Given a density of 0.789 g/mL for ethanol, you've made only 72.7 mL of alcohol (2.45 fl oz). However, at room temperature 88g of CO2 makes 44.8 L. Let's assume you need one mL to make a gas bubble go through the airlock and you're seeing a bubble pass through every minute. 44.8L is 44,800 mL, or 44,800 bubbles, which would be a full month of bubbles at one bubble per minute. But all that gas only consumed 180g of sugar, which in a 23L fermenter (6 gal) only reduces your SG by 0.003 (in a month!). That would be a daily change of just 0.0001 in the SG.

I see lots of people trying to explain air bubbles through the air lock in terms of temperature expansions and contractions. It's much simpler than that: fermentation is still happening quickly enough to make a little CO2, but not fast enough to produce significant alcohol or reduce your SG.

I've entertained myself writing this, I hope some other folks find it useful. Happy to add more details and sources if anyone is interested. Happy brewing!

I find this pretty interesting.

 

[RM-MN]

Bottled! Thank you for your advice. Now the hard part: waiting.

I'll encourage you to wait the recommended 3 weeks but I have sampled a couple bottles at only 24 hours. There was carbonation but no head on the beer. If you want head on your beer, wait at least a week to sample. Some beers take longer than that to get a good head on them.

 

[Soulshine2]

Yup, extract kit. Not past the expiration date. Remember this stuff is made for the Oz market, so probably they expect warmish temperatures for home brewers.

We hit SG of 1011 on day 9, now it's day 16. Do you think a couple more days is going to change the SG?

What about proofing sugar? Would you add it even if you suspect there are still fermentable sugars left?

At that point and time lapsed I'd start thinking your yeast has reached its attenuation limit. If its unchanged from day 9 to 16 its done. No. That sugar is for bottling