MoreBeer Pre-Milled Grain And Efficiency

[brinson44]

Hi folks,

I’m relatively new to the all grain world with only about six batches under my belt, and I’ve come to realize that I need some advice about achieving higher mash efficiency.

I recently found that MoreBeer tends to under crush their grains (or at least historically they have; couldn’t find any current data to confirm this) and I’m curious to know if any of you think that might be one of the reasons I’ve been missing my OG by quite a bit.

I don’t have a grain mill and I’ve only ever bought grain from MoreBeer so I don’t have any good visual cues to help me understand if the attached photo represents a “good crush”. I know it’s a long shot, but if anyone has any two cents to share about what I’m working with here and any suggestions on what I can do in the future (obviously I can buy a mill, but I’m mainly looking for help with this particular batch).

Thanks

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/CrushEval ?

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

It has been said that most shops crush for “3 vessel” brewing. If you are brewing BIAB then you would want the finer crush...

 

[Lefou]

When I first switched to all grain I had the SAME EXACT problem - low conversion efficiency. A more fine, evenly crushed grist helps quite a bit and there are other "tricks" to achieve a desirable starting gravity. Early on I was using less modified Continental malts and under-estimating the amount of treated strike water added to my kettle. Adjusting crush, water amounts, and mash times helped a lot.
After a few failed brews things turned around. It's a hard way to learn.

 

[bkboiler]

Good on ya for checking. Last set of grains I ordered from AIH arrived virtually uncrushed (every 12th hull was cracked). I sent them an email with pictures and they promptly sent me another shipment of grains that were milled properly. A minor inconvenience, but good on them for making it right!

 

[bracconiere]

there shouldn't be any of the whole kernels circled....i didn't want to circle them all, even half kernels are coarser then i do it...

 

[ba-brewer]

@brinson44 Do you mash for a given amount of time are you checking the gravity for conversion?

If the crush is too course it just needs more time to fully convert. A refractometer is good for a quick gravity measurement.

edit: Also are you doing BIAB or batch or fly sparge?

 

[khannon]

Also, there is always the iodine test to check for conversion.. I was going to link something less "myspacey" but https://www.winning-homebrew.com/starch-conversion-test.html There are others, duckduckgo(https://duckduckgo.com) them(it might not be the other guy but some of your dignity is intact).

 

[brinson44]

@brinson44 Do you mash for a given amount of time are you checking the gravity for conversion?

If the crush is too course it just needs more time to fully convert. A refractometer is good for a quick gravity measurement.

edit: Also are you doing BIAB or batch or fly sparge?

I mash for however long BeerSmith says after messing around with my recipes. I also batch sparge.

I’ve always done an iodine test, but, unless I’m screwing that up, it suggests conversion. I’ll have a refractometer on hand this time and will be checking that way as well.

 

[brew703]

Save some money and buy a mill. You can get a cereal crusher mill for $99. You can also get a corona mill for $25 or so. If necessary, re-mill your grains in a blender or food processor.

I got fed up with the crappy crushes from the HBS or online vendor so I bought my own mill.

I am a BIAB brewer and i mill my grains setting the gap the width of a credit card and I regularly get 80%+ efficiency.

 

[RM-MN]

If you still have some of those grains, try a longer mash and see if your mash efficiency goes up. Bigger particles take longer to convert than small. If you see a significant improvement it tells you you need your own mill. I BIAB and do a 30 minute to 40 minute mash for a near 100% conversion because I mill extremely fine.

 

[IslandLizard]

With coarsely milled grain it's agitation of the mash (not time) that will help hydrate and break up larger (but cracked) grain pieces. Once grain bits are fully hydrated, conversion is fast, within minutes.

Ever been in a larger (craft) brewery? Look how (relatively) coarse their crush is, then look in their mash tun, there's constant agitation, paddles and scoops turning it over the whole time. Their mash is usually completed within 40 minutes. They don't take a hit on efficiency either, too much money involved.

But we don't have that kind of equipment, and constant stirring and turning by hand is out of the question, you'd lose too much heat with the lid being off. So we should (and can) mill a bit finer.

Now uncrushed, whole kernels are never going to hydrate, and thus won't convert one bit. You'll always get a round number, 1.000 from those.

Wait until you have a decent percentage of wheat or rye included (they're much smaller kernels than barley). They'll drop through the gap mostly uncrushed. Crushing twice won't help (or much) with those either.

So... if you're serious about brewing, order unmilled grain, and mill your own. Examples of affordable mills were given above. The gap set at the thickness of a credit card will give you 80% mash efficiency. A little tighter for small kernel grain.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I found the milling from online vendors to be subpar. Or maybe like someone said above it was milled correctly for a multiple vessel system with longer sparging and not BIAB method that I do. The worst was AIH though. I got a corona mill and started crushing my own and life has been better. I love Morebeer for grain FWIW.

 

[IslandLizard]

There's nothing wrong with MoreBeer's (all-grain) recipe kits,* especially a good deal when they go on sale. Shipping included! It's their milling (if it's done there at all) that's highly questionable.

* Most hoppier beer kits can benefit from more hops and better hop schedules, though. But that's not just a MoreBeer issue, they all have that problem.

 

[Carolina_Matt]

I buy unmilled and use my cereal killer to mill either the night before brewing, or the morning I brew. But the thread makes me wonder why these companies have such a coarse crush. It's fully understandable to make it the default since most people do regular All-Grain rather than BIAB. And if you're a small, local shop, you just use one setting for the masses.

But for the bigger companies with a lot of inventory turnover (Morebeer, Northern, Midwest, etc), why not just set up a separate mill with a finer crush for BIAB? I assume they have the space for another mill (although I've never been in their warehouse), and the cost of a second mill would be a drop in the bucket for them. It would also give them a competitive advantage if you can order a BIAB-crushed kit.

 

[ba-brewer]

I mash for however long BeerSmith says after messing around with my recipes. I also batch sparge.

I’ve always done an iodine test, but, unless I’m screwing that up, it suggests conversion. I’ll have a refractometer on hand this time and will be checking that way as well.

There is a spreadsheet to help estimate your gravity. It will also give estimates on gravities of the following sparges.
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Batch_Sparge_and_Party_Gyle_Simulator

When I started checking my gravity with a refractometer and using that to determine when to sparge my efficiency numbers became much more stable.

 

[IslandLizard]

But for the bigger companies with a lot of inventory turnover (Morebeer, Northern, Midwest, etc), why not just set up a separate mill with a finer crush for BIAB? I assume they have the space for another mill (although I've never been in their warehouse), and the cost of a second mill would be a drop in the bucket for them. It would also give them a competitive advantage if you can order a BIAB-crushed kit.

Chances are they a) use multi-roller commercial brewery mills, or b) buy it milled from the malster or distributor, using similar commercial brewing mills. The crush of those is typically course, and not very suitable for direct use by homebrewers, especially no-sparge BIAB brewers.

 

[Jag75]

Before my LHBS opened I had to get milled grains from morebeer. I found that they under crushed as well. Once the HBS opened I bought grains from them and they would mill them for me . My efficiency went up for sure .