Missed my OG. What the hell happened?

[charliethebum]

Long story short, I promised a buddy with cancer that after he recovered from his treatment, I'd attempt to come up with a colt 45 clone. This is my first attempt and first time attempting to use grits in the mash. Grain bill I came up with is

10# pilsner
6# quick grits
Mashed 90 min @ 149f

I figured I'd use cane sugar post boil to adjust OG. shooting for~1.080. It's boiling away right now but the pre boil gravity came in at 1.044 (!) Luckily I had some DME on hand and threw in a couple pounds, but my question is why? I'm guessing the starches in the grits didn't convert, but why? I thought pilsner malt had way plenty diastatic power to handle adjuncts and I've read that quick grits don't need a cereal mash or anything. This is the first time I've been so far off on my numbers and any help or insight would be very much appreciated

 

[day_trippr]

I'm nearly certain "quick grits" require a solid five minutes of boiling before adding to the mash...

Cheers!

 

[bracconiere]

if i did a batch with almost 50% adjunct i'd leave it in the oven overnight at a low temp....them add the malt to it to liquefy.....


edit: 50% 25%, whatever i suck at math....still i'd gel it in the oven with the full strike water let cool, then add the malt at mash temps.....

 

[charliethebum]

I'm nearly certain "quick grits" require a solid five minutes of boiling before adding to the mash...

Cheers!

I'll try that next attempt thanks! I've read a couple threads on here saying you can just throw them in the mash

 

[charliethebum]

if i did a batch with almost 50% adjunct i'd leave it in the oven overnight at a low temp....them add the malt to it to liquefy.....


edit: 50% 25%, whatever i suck at math....still i'd gel it in the oven with the full strike water let cool, then add the malt at mash temps.....

I'm a little confused. Are you suggesting to hold mash temp a all night or? My oven only goes down to 170f

 

[day_trippr]

Wikipedia says the "quick" in "quick grits" is they take only five minutes of cooking, vs "non-quick" that take 20 to 45 minutes.
Occam says that was the problem here...

Cheers!

 

[bracconiere]

you can just throw them in the mash

would a person be able to test that theroy? i've seen people saying flaked grain dioesn't need a cereal mash also, and don't know if it's true.....i'd test it by adding just it to mash temp watder and see if it thickens it.....

 

[charliethebum]

Wikipedia says the "quick" in "quick grits" is they take only five minutes of cooking, vs "non-quick" that take 20 to 45 minutes.
Occam says that was the problem here...

Cheers!

That makes sense. Thanks!

 

[bracconiere]

I'm a little confused. Are you suggesting to hold mash temp a all night or? My oven only goes down to 170f

i'd hold it at 200f overnight till it's gel'd, in full strike volume with a lid on it....that's the way i made rice beer....i added amylase to liquefy, but malt will have the same effect....

 

[charliethebum]

i'd hold it at 200f overnight till it's gel'd, in full strike volume with a lid on it....that's the way i made rice beer....i added amylase to liquefy, but malt will have the same effect....

Might just have to give it a shot. Thanks!

 

[dochawk]

would a person be able to test that theroy? i've seen people saying flaked grain dioesn't need a cereal mash also, and don't know if it's true.....i'd test it by adding just it to mash temp watder and see if it thickens it.....

some years ago . . . [fuzzy fading effect] . . .

I made an oatmeal stout.

And I forgot to include the oatmeal with the grain, and realized this when it was time to end the protein rest.

So I dumped it on top and added the boiling water.

Understand, this was a 13 gallon batch in a 48 qt cooler . . . and I think it was two large things of quakers . . .

have you *ever* seen what happens when when you pour a lot of boiling water on top of 5+ pounds of oatmeal???

[spoiler: it does the oatmeal thing . . .]

leading to a mad dash around the house and garage. It ultimately filled the 48qt I started in, and a pair of 24 its . . .

I still don't quite remember how I mixed it back and forth to spare. . . .

And then the cat knocked the airlock off of one of the secondary's, leading to its name ("Cat's Death Stout")

I almost tossed it all multiple times.

Naturally, this is the one that one Best of Show . . .



p.s. Just don't take OG or IG readings; then they can't bother you!

 

[dwhite60]

Seems like a lot of grits for the amount of barley. Six row might have been better. Might.

Could have tried corn starch instead. Easier to convert but still a lot.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[bracconiere]

I made an oatmeal stout.

oats actually gel at mash temps, as does wheat....i've done 100% oat malt beer at 150f.......

 

[charliethebum]

Seems like a lot of grits for the amount of barley. Six row might have been better. Might.

Could have tried corn starch instead. Easier to convert but still a lot.

All the Best,
D. White

I was wondering if I should have picked up some 6 row. Figured the pilsner had more than enough diastatic power though. Never would have even considered using corn starch how much would you think as a sub per lb of corn?

 

[charliethebum]

Naturally, this is the one that one Best of Show . . .

Hahaha! Yep that's how it seems to work. Unrepeatable process and all

 

[day_trippr]

No need for 6 row for this particular grist.

The typical highly modified pilsen malt has a Lintner rating of ~125°.
10 pounds of that with 6 pounds of the zero Lintner grits puts the total mash at 78°.
A mash only needs to be above 40° to convert...

https://www.topdownbrew.com/diastaticPower.html

Cheers!

 

[charliethebum]

No need for 6 row for this particular grist.

The typical highly modified pilsen malt has a Lintner rating of ~125°.
10 pounds of that with 6 pounds of the zero Lintner grits puts the total mash at 78°.
A mash only needs to be above 40° to convert...

https://www.topdownbrew.com/diastaticPower.html

Cheers!

So it should work fine if I cook the grits before the mash? Hopefully they don't run out before I can get back to the store I'm bound and determined to make some malt liquor damnit!

 

[day_trippr]

Everything suggests that was the root cause of your problem.
Cook the grits, make sure they're creamy when you think they're done, then add to the mash and make some beer...

Cheers!

[edit] A recipe calculator will reveal all. See what happens when you add/subtract 6 pounds of what would have been fermentable. Your pre-boil was probably on target - for 6 pounds of glass marbles

 

[dochawk]

Hahaha! Yep that's how it seems to work. Unrepeatable process and all

Yes, it's one of two of *those* batches. I know *exactly* what went *in* to this, but haven't been able to replicate the process.

I've even done the post-rest late addition of oatmeal and applied boiling water, but no big mush (and *now*, I use a cooler large enough to handle it--normally, I have more than enough room for all the spare water on a 15 gallon batch . . .)

It's *good* when I do it, but not quite the same.

Hmm, maybe use a second cooler, and make the oatmeal in it, then dump and mix with the grain. Or just make a few pounds o oatmeal on the stove [gosh, won't *that* drive my wife nuts . . . multiple 5 gallon pots of oatmeal going . . .


The other irreporducible is one for which I *don't* know what went in . . . It used over 20 lbs of base grain, so I measured, added, repeated, marking it down as I went.

But it seems I used a bit much . . . it came out 070 rather than a bit over 050 . . . and I realized that I"d made a light scotch rather than beer!

(but it *is* what inspired my interest in single malts . . .)