Minimizing hop bitterness

[Crawf]

Hi folks,
First time post.
I'm interested in getting tropical hop notes like you would expect in a certain type of IPA. These flavors are derived usually from hops with big alpha acids. What I'm trying to avoid, however, is the bitterness of these hops.
Any tips on getting flavor from something like a Citra hop, without getting all that bitterness?
Many thanks.
Sincerely,
Crawf

 

[TheRussMeister]

Sounds like you want to add some late addition or flame out hops, or possibly dry hops. However, be aware that if there are a lot of beta acids in the hops you choose, those can add some bitterness without much boiling.

Good luck!

 

[JLem]

Search for a technique called "hop bursting". I think that is what you are looking for.

 

[Crawf]

Interesting. Thank you.
I've never heard of hop bursting but that's basically what I've been experimenting with on a really small scale. I've been boiling a couple cups of wort and then adding a given amount of hops and cooking the hops rather quickly--5 mins, 10, 15, etc. Note taking. Not satisfied really with the differences between them. To me, they taste like dry hopped Citra wort. That is, bitter!
What I was hoping to ascertain is whether there's a temp or boil time at which the betas will release but BEFORE all the alphas release.
I know, it's kind of a weird desire. But there it is. Again, thanks,
Crawf

 

[TheRussMeister]

Betas can also provide bitterness, and don't need to be boiled to do it, so be careful with that. Maybe try a hop with low betas and no specific alpha, and just add them late or at the end of the boil. Can you expand on what kind of experiments you're doing?

 

[cjb]

Not sure if I understand you correctly, but it sounds like you're tasting the wort and not the finished product. You have to be careful with judging bitterness from a wort sample - it will typically have a lot of suspended hop solids that make it taste very bitter (especially if you're using a lot of late additions). During fermentation these will drop out and you may get closer to what you're looking for in terms of hop flavor/aroma without the bitterness.

 

[Crawf]

That makes a lot of sense. Thanks cjb.

 

[Kealia]

Sounds like you have some experimenting to do. Late addition hops (T-minus 20 minutes or less) should give you plenty of flavor without the same bitterness as early additions will.

You'll likely also have to experiment with different hops types to see what works for you. I am big fan of hop flavor and not in-your-face bitterness as well.

It's not hard to achieve.

 

[Crawf]

Anyone have luck with hop oils?

 

[feinbera]

You can also try a hop stand -- get your wort down to/below 180°, then let the hops steep in wort cool enough that you're not getting much bitterness, but hot enough to really pull a lot of the aroma and flavor compounds out. There are many variations as to how long to wait before finishing your chill, whether you add specific stand hops vs. just standing w/ your flame-out hops, etc, etc.

I haven't finished a "hop stood" beer yet, but I've got an IPA dry-hopping now (after adding a combined 1.5 oz of citra and cascade at 180° and standing for 45 minutes) which is producing some pretty darn hoppy hydrometer samples.

 

[TheRussMeister]

Be careful steeping at such a high temperature though, you may be producing DMS, dimethyl sulfide, and not pushing it off. I can't remember the temperature that that DMS is no longer being produced in effective quantities, maybe it's 180? I can't recall at this moment. Do you smell any vegetative, other than hops of course, or corny smells coming from your fermenter, feinbera?