MEAD - EC1118 + Fermaid K Flocculation

[Edulord]

Hi Everybody.
I am posting this because I had an issue while making mead using EC 1118 Yeast.
I've been brewing Beers and Meads for a while now and never had issues with sedimentation till now.

500 Liters Mead
Yeast = EC1118
Nutrient = Fermaid K (Staggered + Sugar 1/3 Break)
OG= 1095
FG= 1039
The water is not TAP water. It is filtered by an osmotic water filter.

Cold Crashed to 39.2 °F (4°C).. NO SEDIMENTATION
I had to use several filters to KEG this..

What could be the problem here? Other Yeasts with other Nutrient sediment after crash..

Any idea?
Can metabisulphite do the job by killing it?

Thanksss

 

[CKuhns]

Interesting, i have uaed EC1118 a hand full of times. (Higher OG though.) Looking at my notes never had an issue with clarity...

Time, Cold crash and KC SuperKleer.

What honey did you use?

Cant comment on the metabisulfite. (I never use ut.)

 

[Edulord]

HI!, thanks for the quick response..
Never used metabisulfite and I think i will never use. But was just an idea as it kills the yeast but it has flavours and other things that i don't like.

Some things:
I am using raw unfiltered honey (haven't ask the type because it was supplied to us).
KC SuperKleer never used. What is your experience with this?
Time and 4°C Cold crashed (more than 10 days).. Nothing.

What I saw is that there is always effervescence no matter the temp and I suspect this is keeping the yeast floating around.. Cannot be C02 because i am not using isobaric equipment for this.. Could it be the Fermaid that is causing this?.. Another guy said: Calcium is LOW .. but i tried 2 different type of water (osmotic and TAP) with same yeast and same behaviour.

I also (desperate) isolated some and tried Gelatin (not knowing about the Superkleer) but Gelatin does nothing here.

 

[CKuhns]

Fermaid is not likely your issue, i have never had a problem with it. Raw unfiltered honey could be your problem. The remaining wax can cause cloudiness. Heating the honey priir to adding to yiur must to 90 deg F and letting it cool will allow the wax to seperate.

There are many things that cause cloudiness. Positively charged particles, negatively charged particles and neutrally charged particles and pectin. KC Suoer Kleer is a two part process to address the positive and negative. Pectin enzyme addresses the pectin. Heat prior to ferment takes care of the wax. Suspensed particles from things like ground spices only settle with time. (Months to years)

Sorry no experience with gelatin.

Finally, a clody mead is not necessarily a problem. I personnally prefer a crystal clear mead. But many on the forums and many production facilitues produce a cloudy. I just think a clear mead tastes a bit better. Some dont, my adult sons preferd a cloudy mead

 

[Edulord]

Hi!,
I am heating the honey exactly as you described and then adding it to the must.. Also I tried several procedures: Boiling, Mixing Water and Honey (Basic) and "pasteurizing" must at 150F for some minutes. Same results
I prefer heating everything to kill whatever could be there ..

About the cloudiness.. I don't mind that. the thing is that I filter because the mead goes into KEGs and then it is distributed to BARs and some of them store the keg at room temp.. And if I don't filter, Fermentation continues, product change and pressure too hehee.

That's the thing.. make it sediment to filter yeast completely
I will try a smaller batch to see what happens with some of your advices. Now i make 500 liters batches.

 

[Edulord]

Hi long time.
I return with a question.
Do you heat or boil the must?
I will try boliing this one I am making right now.
I have done several batches, no heat, heat 70°C and BOIL. I think boliing is best but honey will lose some good properties there

 

[CKuhns]

Nope, never heat or boil the must. There is nothing i cam think of that would beneficial.

 

[beermanbelly]

Hi long time.
I return with a question.
Do you heat or boil the must?
I will try boliing this one I am making right now.
I have done several batches, no heat, heat 70°C and BOIL. I think boliing is best but honey will lose some good properties there

I have a batch currently where I boiled the must (added the yeast when it was blood warm). Apperently it was popular in the 1800s because it's gave the most clarity. Only disbenifit I could find was the taste, apperently boiled honey taste different than not. The way it was written it seems most people prefer the taste of unboiled honey over boiled.

I started a batch 2 week ago to see what it's all about. So far nothing different to unboiled.

 

[Edulord]

Hi @beermanbelly,
Yes i've read everywhere that boiling helps the clarification.. While boiling removing what goes to the top.. I believe something of the WAX also if it not removed while harvesting the honey.
My batch is 500+ liters... but i took a sample and it is much more clear than the previous one and the 20L (tests) batches that i have.

My issue is the floccuation.. Let's see what happens at the end of fermentation..

 

[beermanbelly]

Hi @beermanbelly,
Yes i've read everywhere that boiling helps the clarification.. While boiling removing what goes to the top.. I believe something of the WAX also if it not removed while harvesting the honey.
My batch is 500+ liters... but i took a sample and it is much more clear than the previous one and the 20L (tests) batches that i have.

My issue is the floccuation.. Let's see what happens at the end of fermentation..

Keep us updated!

 

[Johnny2]

So you cold crashed it when it had an SG of 1.039. Cold crash doesn't stop fermentation and wine yeasts are low flocculation combared to beer yeasts which you have (I will assume) used before.

 

[Edulord]

So you cold crashed it when it had an SG of 1.039. Cold crash doesn't stop fermentation and wine yeasts are low flocculation combared to beer yeasts which you have (I will assume) used before.

HI!, some updates here.
Yes Wine yeast are low floccuating compared to beer yeast you are totally right on that.
Since my last post I made several batches, and also used the SAF Cider AB1 which i already used before (it gives some apple taste there).. different nutrient.. and this time it also didn't floccuate.

Past batches with EC1118 and SAF always floccuated well but now they won't..
All points to the water, now I am using RO Water without any salt treatment and before I was using TAP water (BOILED).. Maybe the lack of calcium....

Next batch I will treat the water and boil with EC and Fermaid Nutrient..

I will come back with more results..

 

[Johnny2]

I didn't notice that this topic is 5 months old. But regarding the 500l batch. Why the FG is was so high? Is that number after back sweetening with honey?

 

[Edulord]

No, currently i am not backsweetning because it is easier for me to control the final taste of the products for some particular clients..
We've made several test batches to present to these clients without adding honey after FG reached and I cannot change them now..

Apart from those I made high ABV meads also with added honey.. but floccu was the same..

One more thing.. I don't kill the yeast with metabisulphite.. won't do

 

[Johnny2]

But you still have sweet mead. How do you stabilize?

 

[Edulord]

I've been cold crashing + filtration.
First 10 micron and then 1 micron filters..
But for example I have a client that like it with the Yeast all in there.. Knowing that we can´t let the kegs get WARM or BAM!

 

[Edulord]

Many ways of filtration.... i am using 10 and 1 because of the floccu ISSUE..
when it floccuated well.. with 1 micron filter only it was WHITE WINE CRYSTAL MEAD hehehe