Mash with one step?

[Michael_Calgary]

Hi all,

So I have done maybe 20 all grain brews so far. Everything is great so far! But I was wondering... So basically I batch sparge right now. So this is two steps and two times that I heat water. Strike and Sparge.

Is it possible to add my total boil volume of strike water(plus more for grain absorption) to my mash tun and just do one step?

Would I lose efficiency? Would I be wasting precious sugars from no sparge? Would it even work at all? lol

I guess the reason I am asking is that typically when I research a recipe... and they are very detailed in the recipe, they will state quarts of strike water per pound of grain. I am just unclear if that is listed for a specific reason? and what happens if I deviate from that? If I can save energy (propane) and time by eliminating a step and still have good beer, I am on board!

I am content to keep going the way I have. I am just curious.

Thx

 

[Yooper]

Yes, that would work. Lots of people do no-sparge brewing, and may notice some loss of efficiency. Some do the mash in a bag, and crush very fine, and they actually improve their efficiency, so it’s not so easy to give you an answer without knowing how your system is, what you mash in, etc- but I can tell you that many people do what you suggest and have no issues.

 

[cloudybrewer]

I Brew in a Bag (BIAB) and use all needed water in the mash. For 5 gallons of packaged beer, I assume 5.75 gallons in the fermenter, 6 gallons post boil, 7 gallons pre boil, and 7.75 gallons strike water for the mash. It's called full volume, no sparge BIAB. My average brewhouse efficiency is 75 - 78% and it's easy peasy. One 10 gallon pot, a custom brew bag from Wilser, and a propane burner is all I need for the hot side.

 

[Vintage Iron]

I'm curious about this as well. Not all recipes list how much water for mash vs sparge, just "5 gal batch". Leaves me guessing what to use. Does it matter? I've guessed at it before, and things were fine.

I prefer to sparge, but that's just the frugal side of me not wanting to waste anything. my brain says, "what do large breweries do?" That should probably guide us as they are "dollars to the penny".

 

[cloudybrewer]

When I started all grain, I raed the recommendation of 1.5 to 2.5 quarts per pound over and over. Then I read about BIAB and how you use as much water as you need. Does mash thickness make a difference in the final product? I can't answer that even though I researched it a bit. My beers are not awesome yet, but getting better each batch. Leaps and bounds better than when I started. All I know is, my brew day is 10pm until 3am leaving me with 3 hours sleep, so I needed fast, simple, and less equipment to worry about. BIAB fits the bill for me. The perfectionist in me would like to have a side by side three vessel system with shiny pots, pumps, and automated awesomeness. But it's not in the cards and would be a pain in the ass with how I currently operate.

 

[Michael_Calgary]

Wow. Ok. Thanks for all the replies! I will certainly give this a shot on my next brew. I brew 5 gallon batches. I have a 10 gallon Igloo Mash Tun with SS braid manifold and a 10 Gallon brew pot. Also, I am am a few days into learning BeerSmith 2 software. I just read that you can have BeerSmith tell you the total amount of water and what strike temp you need by choosing BIAB brew method. I set that on one of my recipes and it seems to make sense!

Thx again!

 

[brewgar]

Wow. Ok. Thanks for all the replies! I will certainly give this a shot on my next brew. I brew 5 gallon batches. I have a 10 gallon Igloo Mash Tun with SS braid manifold and a 10 Gallon brew pot. Also, I am am a few days into learning BeerSmith 2 software. I just read that you can have BeerSmith tell you the total amount of water an what strike temp you need by choosing BIAB brew method. I set that on one of my recipes and it seems to make sense!

Thx again!

Michael - You can also visit pricelessbrewing.com for a very accurate water calculator. Brew on!

 

[cloudybrewer]

As a real life starting point, I have found that 8 to 10 pounds of grain mixed into 7 to 7.75 gallons of water lowers the temp 5 to 6 degrees. So, for a mash temp of 152, my strike temp for an average grain bill will be 158. A few of the calculators get good reviews, but I've just been making small adjustments to water volume s and temps as I go to dial in my process.

 

[Michael_Calgary]

As a real life starting point, I have found that 8 to 10 pounds of grain mixed into 7 to 7.75 gallons of water lowers the temp 5 to 6 degrees. So, for a mash temp of 152, my strike temp for an average grain bill will be 158. A few of the calculators get good reviews, but I've just been making small adjustments to water volume s and temps as I go to dial in my process.

That looks pretty darn close to what Beersmith 2 is telling me! Your recommended strike temp is bang on to what it says. I have a blonde ale recipe input in it right now with 10 pounds of grain and it's telling me 6.97 gallons of water using the BIAB method. But as you say, in the 20 or so brews I have done so far, I have also made some small adjustments so that my ready to keg, post fermentation and cleared volume, fits one Corny keg exactly with nothing left over.

On a side note, probably the last 10 brews or so, I've been using and adding notes to some brew software, (brewTarget) and it has helped me produce not only much better beer almost every brew, but consistent brews from batch to batch. I pretty much make the same style beer all the time. (mostly Blonde Ales) Unfortunately my Brewtarget database was lost and all that info is gone. So I bought BeerSmith 2 as it supports cloud storage of my recipes. It's just a much more involved piece of software... so the learning curve is steep!

This weekend I will try a no-sparge brew with my current fav beer. I'll report back with my results!

 

[Michael_Calgary]

Right... so I have ran into my first problem with no sparge brewing... and that is my mash pH is ALL WRONG! Just tested with a calibrated pH meter and after cooling a sample, my mash was at 7.1

Reason I noticed something was off is that my efficiency appeared to drop off from what I was expecting from Beer Smith. Meaning my SG reading was lower than what I was expecting.

So I read that pH can affect efficiency.

The water here in Calgary reads pH 8.6. I am assuming that I didn't have an issue before when I was doing batch sparge as my grains to water ratio was much more. (or another way of saying it, I had much less water in my mash)

So I guess I have two options? One, go back to batch sparge. Or, two... pH adjust and keep going with no sparge brewing.

Anybody have any ideas what I could add to get my pH down?

 

[Jimbodaman]

It's not so much the starting 8.6 pH it's your water's alkalinity (and generally the entire profile). Without delving into a college level chemistry lesson, the quick fix is to add up to 3% acidulated malt or other form of acid. 88% lactic acid seems to be the most common water treatment. I use brewersfriend water calculator to get the amount of acid needed and always been close enough for me (5.0-5.6 pH).

 

[RM-MN]

Adjust the pH. It's quick and easy except for the first mash. The acidity during the conversion is what matters but the acidity will be changing during that time so you need to wait for a few minutes to take the pH reading at which time it is too late to add acid because the conversion is already well under way. Use the pH reading you get from this first batch to adjust the amount of acid you need for subsequent batches. Precision isn't necessary, conversion will work with quite a range of pH.

With all that said, the crush of the grain is much more important factor in efficiency than the pH of the mash. Also, you were concerned with having to heat the strike water and then again heat water for sparging. Forget heating the water for sparging. You will get nearly the same efficiency from using cool water as hot and either way will get you better efficiency than no-sparge. The only thing it will affect is the time to get the wort to boil and that won't be much as your wort collected from sparging with cool water will still be quite warm as you add cool water to hot, water soaked grain which heat up the wort.

 

[Michael_Calgary]

Hmm all good info Jimbodaman and RM-MN. So I was thinking about food grade phosphoric acid. Although I do have a container of some chemical the HBS sold me. I want to say calcium chloride? Can't remember off the top of my head. I've also read of some sort of "add and forget" buffering addition but again, I cannot remember what it was called. But from what I remember it will just hold your ph at 5.2.

RM-MN, So about sparging with cool water. When a recipe tells me to sparge with like 168f water (which of course is higher than my mash was) what benefit does this give me? Would I be missing out on "something" by sparging with cool water?

thx guys!

Edit - oh and are you saying that I should adjust the ph of my water before it even touches the grains?

 

[kh54s10]

The 5.2 pH stuff is apparently garbage. Calcium Chloride is for water treatment but does not replace the Aciduated malt or acid.

168 was for ages the recommended sparge temperature. Hot water is said to rinse out the sugars better but the difference is small if at all.

 

[RM-MN]

Hmm all good info Jimbodaman and RM-MN. So I was thinking about food grade phosphoric acid. Although I do have a container of some chemical the HBS sold me. I want to say calcium chloride? Can't remember off the top of my head. I've also read of some sort of "add and forget" buffering addition but again, I cannot remember what it was called. But from what I remember it will just hold your ph at 5.2.

RM-MN, So about sparging with cool water. When a recipe tells me to sparge with like 168f water (which of course is higher than my mash was) what benefit does this give me? Would I be missing out on "something" by sparging with cool water?

thx guys!

Edit - oh and are you saying that I should adjust the ph of my water before it even touches the grains?

Not quite. You should be adding the necessary adjustment before adding the grains so the pH will be correct during the initial period of the mash but that unless you are building water from distilled by adding the minerals to get there you won't really be able to tell if you adjusted correctly on the first batch as the pH will be changing for a while. You want to be close to the correct pH immediately.

When people say they are adjusting the pH of the water it connotes something different. The pH of the water doesn't matter, it's the ability of the water to remain high in pH that matters, known as alkalinity.

 

[Michael_Calgary]

When people say they are adjusting the pH of the water it connotes something different. The pH of the water doesn't matter, it's the ability of the water to remain high in pH that matters, known as alkalinity.

Ok wait a sec here.... now I feel like I am too thick to understand this. So are you saying that I want alkalinity? I thought I was shooting for a pH of 5.2 in my mash? Wouldn't that pH be considered acidic rather than alkaline?

 

[schematix]

I’m struggling to figure out how you mixed grain and water and ended up with a pH north of 7.

I’d check calibration of your meter first.

 

[Michael_Calgary]

I’m struggling to figure out how you mixed grain and water and ended up with a pH north of 7.

I’d check calibration of your meter first.

I bought a brand new digital pH meter and calibrated it with the calibration buffer pack that came with it. I am quite confident that it is calibrated correctly. Also, I was a journeyman pressman for many, many years... we had to use pH testers (including calibrating them) to measure and adjust our water fountain solution used in the printing process.

Well my tap water has a pH of 8.6. Also I am doing a no sparge mash. Meaning I put my total pre-boil volume of water in the mash tun. (well actually more than pre-boil to allow for loss due to grain absorption) I suspect that the grains cannot bring the pH down to acceptable levels with that much water mixed in.

I am going to do a batch sparge this weekend and measure the mash pH to see if it is on target for mash pH and then I'll go from there with regards to chemical additions for pH adjustments. I really like doing no sparge mash. Saves an entire step.

 

[schematix]

I bought a brand new digital pH meter and calibrated it with the calibration buffer pack that came with it. I am quite confident that it is calibrated correctly. Also, I was a journeyman pressman for many, many years... we had to use pH testers (including calibrating them) to measure and adjust our water fountain solution used in the printing process.

Well my tap water has a pH of 8.6. Also I am doing a no sparge mash. Meaning I put my total pre-boil volume of water in the mash tun. (well actually more than pre-boil to allow for loss due to grain absorption) I suspect that the grains cannot bring the pH down to acceptable levels with that much water mixed in.

I am going to do a batch sparge this weekend and measure the mash pH to see if it is on target for mash pH and then I'll go from there with regards to chemical additions for pH adjustments. I really like doing no sparge mash. Saves an entire step.

What buffer, or buffers did you calibrate with? What kind of meter did you get?

I do no-sparge exclusively so I am quite familiar with the process. Just to sanity check this, i plugged in the most extreme example i could think of into a couple calculators. The highest i pH i could get is 6.3. That's moderate gravity, all 2-row, with very highly alkaline water.

Tap water pH is only a very small contribution to mash pH.

 

[RM-MN]

Ok wait a sec here.... now I feel like I am too thick to understand this. So are you saying that I want alkalinity? I thought I was shooting for a pH of 5.2 in my mash? Wouldn't that pH be considered acidic rather than alkaline?

Your water can be quite high in pH but low in minerals so it has little ability to hold that high pH when grains are added. It also can be nearly neutral pH but have so much minerals in it that the grains cannot bring the pH into the proper acidic range. That's what alkalinity is about, the ability to hold onto its high pH. It doesn't matter whether you want alkalinity or not, your water is what it is and it is up to you to make necessary adjustments. With low alkalinity it doesn't take much to make this adjustments but at this point nobody knows what your water is like except that it is high in pH.

 

[Michael_Calgary]

Your water can be quite high in pH but low in minerals so it has little ability to hold that high pH when grains are added. It also can be nearly neutral pH but have so much minerals in it that the grains cannot bring the pH into the proper acidic range. That's what alkalinity is about, the ability to hold onto its high pH. It doesn't matter whether you want alkalinity or not, your water is what it is and it is up to you to make necessary adjustments. With low alkalinity it doesn't take much to make this adjustments but at this point nobody knows what your water is like except that it is high in pH.

Here is the water report for Calgary. Honestly this stuff is making my head swim, I tried using Bru'n water but hell if I could make heads or tails of it.

 

[schematix]

That's one of the better water quality report sheets I've seen. Extremely thorough and well organized.

You have mediocre tap water for brewing. Probably tastes ok. Main brewing flaw is that the alkalinity is a bit high. Not crazy high but it won't make a good pale lager.

What was your meter calibration routine and what kind of meter? I suspect you're pH is too high, but probably not in the 7s.

 

[Michael_Calgary]

That's one of the better water quality report sheets I've seen. Extremely thorough and well organized.

You have mediocre tap water for brewing. Probably tastes ok. Main brewing flaw is that the alkalinity is a bit high. Not crazy high but it won't make a good pale lager.

What was your meter calibration routine and what kind of meter? I suspect you're pH is too high, but probably not in the 7s.

This is the meter I bought.
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B01N1P90AF/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I used the green buffer package and adjusted the meter to match. I didn't have distilled water so I used some RO water to add the buffer to. May have thrown off the calibration? Idk. The meter read 6.9 in the buffered solution so it was not off by much compared to what the solution should be. Since it cannot measure 2 clicks past the decimal, I just adjusted it down to 6.8

Well, actually I moved the adjustment so it was clicking over to 6.9 and then just a hair down so it clicked down to 6.8. figured that should be close enough to 6.86

 

[ba-brewer]

Right... so I have ran into my first problem with no sparge brewing... and that is my mash pH is ALL WRONG! Just tested with a calibrated pH meter and after cooling a sample, my mash was at 7.1

Reason I noticed something was off is that my efficiency appeared to drop off from what I was expecting from Beer Smith. Meaning my SG reading was lower than what I was expecting.

So I read that pH can affect efficiency.

The water here in Calgary reads pH 8.6. I am assuming that I didn't have an issue before when I was doing batch sparge as my grains to water ratio was much more. (or another way of saying it, I had much less water in my mash)

So I guess I have two options? One, go back to batch sparge. Or, two... pH adjust and keep going with no sparge brewing.

Anybody have any ideas what I could add to get my pH down?

So you did a full volume mash in your cooler without a bag? How far did your efficiency drop?

Beersmith does not work very well for me when I do full volume mashes, I dont do it often enough to figure out is happening. If you use a bag your efficiency does not drop so much as you can get more wort from the grain(less lost to absorption).

For full volume no sparge without a bag the braukaiser batch sparge spreadsheet gives a closer estimate for me.
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Batch_Sparge_and_Party_Gyle_Simulator
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjI_eC4u7ncAhXNJDQIHZQOD3gQFjABegQICRAC&url=http://braukaiser.com/documents/batch_sparge_simulator.xls&usg=AOvVaw2G-aNLX45-gYFMPGRS6qEz

 

[schematix]

This is the meter I bought.
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B01N1P90AF/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I used the green buffer package and adjusted the meter to match. I didn't have distilled water so I used some RO water to add the buffer to. May have thrown off the calibration? Idk. The meter read 6.9 in the buffered solution so it was not off by much compared to what the solution should be. Since it cannot measure 2 clicks past the decimal, I just adjusted it down to 6.8

Well, actually I moved the adjustment so it was clicking over to 6.9 and then just a hair down so it clicked down to 6.8. figured that should be close enough to 6.86

OK this is all coming together now...

1. Properly calibrated that meter will only get you in the ballpark. For brewing you need 0.01-0.02 pH accuracy and resolution. This tool is not fit for the job. You get what you pay for.
2. You need at least a 2 point calibration. For brewing that means a 4 buffer and a 7 (or 6.86 for this meter) buffer. Single point is practically useless.
3. RO water isn't pure and contains ions that act as buffers as well. So you took a relatively inaccurate meter and fed it half of the appropriate calibration, and even that half was only approximate.

If you haven't already it might help to read the Water Knowledge section in the Brun'Water spreadsheet. Some of it is a little science and math heavy, but there are some very important take-aways you can get without having to really understand the chemistry. I think you may have some misconceptions about what is really going on in the mash. Fortunately it's easy to learn.

 

[Michael_Calgary]

OK this is all coming together now...

1. Properly calibrated that meter will only get you in the ballpark. For brewing you need 0.01-0.02 pH accuracy and resolution. This tool is not fit for the job. You get what you pay for.
2. You need at least a 2 point calibration. For brewing that means a 4 buffer and a 7 (or 6.86 for this meter) buffer. Single point is practically useless.
3. RO water isn't pure and contains ions that act as buffers as well. So you took a relatively inaccurate meter and fed it half of the appropriate calibration, and even that half was only approximate.

If you haven't already it might help to read the Water Knowledge section in the Brun'Water spreadsheet. Some of it is a little science and math heavy, but there are some very important take-aways you can get without having to really understand the chemistry. I think you may have some misconceptions about what is really going on in the mash. Fortunately it's easy to learn.

ok... First off, I appreciate your candor and guidance. I can certainly concede (now) to an inferior pH meter and being lazy on the calibration. This meter is similar to the ones I used during my printing days. Calibration for those back then was the same as the instructions on the one I just bought. Instructions stated to take either buffer pack put it in 250 ml of 25 degree water and adjust. Which is what I did. It actually does not state to use both. OK, in the shop we did use distilled water... I got lazy. You think it would have thrown readings off that much?

Since the meter was inexpensive, replacing it won't hurt that much. How about this one? 0.01 accuracy and it can read two digits past the decimal. https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B01N9R2S35/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

thx!

 

[schematix]

ok... First off, I appreciate your candor and guidance. I can certainly concede (now) to an inferior pH meter and being lazy on the calibration. This meter is similar to the ones I used during my printing days. Calibration for those back then was the same as the instructions on the one I just bought. Instructions stated to take either buffer pack put it in 250 ml of 25 degree water and adjust. Which is what I did. It actually does not state to use both. OK, in the shop we did use distilled water... I got lazy. You think it would have thrown readings off that much?

Since the meter was inexpensive, replacing it won't hurt that much. How about this one? 0.01 accuracy and it can read two digits past the decimal. https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B01N9R2S35/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

thx!

The single point calibration was probably the major source of error, but the other factors didn't help either.

That meter is slightly better but not much.

I'd suggest getting one of the ~$100 meters. I'd also recommend buying the required liquid buffer packets or bottles and storage solution. There are a lot of different pH buffers and the meter documentation will tell you which ones it requires. pH 4 and pH 7 are typical. I think the recommended meters these days are the hach pocket pro, extech 110 and MW102. I bought a Hanna pHep and it was a waste of money because it auto calibrates (usually too soon). I also have a MW102 that is rock solid but is a bit of a hassle to use since it has probes on wires instead of a pen style meter.

You may also want to check out the pH meter sticky in the brew science forum. It can offer a lot more than I can.

 

[TheHopfather]

Water in Calgary is a pain to brew with unless you're making a stout or porter or some such. I'd start brewing with RO and learn how to add salts back in.

 

[Michael_Calgary]

Water in Calgary is a pain to brew with unless you're making a stout or porter or some such. I'd start brewing with RO and learn how to add salts back in.

Makes me wonder what the microbreweries in Calgary are doing for water? Some of those guys make really good beer.

 

[Michael_Calgary]

The single point calibration was probably the major source of error, but the other factors didn't help either.

That meter is slightly better but not much.

I'd suggest getting one of the ~$100 meters. I'd also recommend buying the required liquid buffer packets or bottles and storage solution. There are a lot of different pH buffers and the meter documentation will tell you which ones it requires. pH 4 and pH 7 are typical. I think the recommended meters these days are the hach pocket pro, extech 110 and MW102. I bought a Hanna pHep and it was a waste of money because it auto calibrates (usually too soon). I also have a MW102 that is rock solid but is a bit of a hassle to use since it has probes on wires instead of a pen style meter.

You may also want to check out the pH meter sticky in the brew science forum. It can offer a lot more than I can.

Yikes! Those meters are spendy! How about this one?

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B01MYV3938/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[Michael_Calgary]

Water in Calgary is a pain to brew with unless you're making a stout or porter or some such. I'd start brewing with RO and learn how to add salts back in.

OK, so If I go with RO water, I can try and build a profile for a specific beer type?

As an example, I am looking a basic water profile for the city of Pilsen. So I can use RO (or distilled) water and build a profile to mimic the water profile of Pilsen?

I do own an electric water distiller and I used it for um... cough... distilling "water" in the past. Not really sure what rate it can make distilled water at though.

 

[Michael_Calgary]

So you did a full volume mash in your cooler without a bag? How far did your efficiency drop?

Beersmith does not work very well for me when I do full volume mashes, I dont do it often enough to figure out is happening. If you use a bag your efficiency does not drop so much as you can get more wort from the grain(less lost to absorption).

For full volume no sparge without a bag the braukaiser batch sparge spreadsheet gives a closer estimate for me.
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Batch_Sparge_and_Party_Gyle_Simulator
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjI_eC4u7ncAhXNJDQIHZQOD3gQFjABegQICRAC&url=http://braukaiser.com/documents/batch_sparge_simulator.xls&usg=AOvVaw2G-aNLX45-gYFMPGRS6qEz

I dropped to the mid 60's. Well this is what beer smith tells me after I enter the corrected post boil measured SG.

 

[ba-brewer]

I would say your mash went fine and you did not have a problem. There is just sugar stuck on the grain you can not get if you dont do a sparge.

When I fly sparge I get about 75%BHE, 70% or better with a double batch sparge but when I do full volume single batch sparging I get in the mid 60s.

 

[Michael_Calgary]

I would say your mash went fine and you did not have a problem. There is just sugar stuck on the grain you can not get if you dont do a sparge.

When I fly sparge I get about 75%BHE, 70% or better with a double batch sparge but when I do full volume single batch sparging I get in the mid 60s.

Hmm maybe i'll just forget all this water and pH crap and just return to batch sparge. The whole point was eliminate a step and to not have to heat water twice, but I have since found out I don't need hot water for my sparge. At the end of the day, I make beer that I really like, it tastes better than any commercial junk I can buy... and I pay a fraction of the cost to do it. I guess I should just be happy with that.

 

[ba-brewer]

The water still needs to get to boiling. Takes longer to bring the full volume to mash in temp and a cold water sparge means longer to get from mash temp to boil. If you heat only the strike water first and dough in, then heat the sparge water while mashing that can save a little time.

Take your time digging into the water stuff it can possible improve your beer.

 

[Michael_Calgary]

The water still needs to get to boiling. Takes longer to bring the full volume to mash in temp and a cold water sparge means longer to get from mash temp to boil. If you heat only the strike water first and dough in, then heat the sparge water while mashing that can save a little time.

Take your time digging into the water stuff it can possible improve your beer.

Ya I like to make pale ales and lagers... and apparently Calgary water is junk for both...

although my finished product tastes pretty good to me!

 

[schematix]

Ya I like to make pale ales and lagers... and apparently Calgary water is junk for both...

although my finished product tastes pretty good to me!

Reverse osmosis water will give you a step level improvement in your beer flavor. It's also cheap to make. A simple $100 tankless RO system will give you the best brewing water from a cost, quality, and availability perspective.

I can't speak highly enough about my switch to RO water.

 

[ba-brewer]

If your beer tastes good to you that is what matters.

My water changes seasonally and sometimes weekly so I started using RO water pretty early in my brewing for consistency. Building up water is not too difficult, start with the primer and go from there.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/a-brewing-water-chemistry-primer.198460/

Here is a link to show the efficiency differences for no sparge and multiple sparge, look at the chart in post#8
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/batch-sparging-whats-your-efficiency.648030/

 

[hawkbox]

I no sparge any time I do a 5 gallon batch and get around 72% efficiency. But I use a brew bag in my mash tun so I can lift it out and squeeze it. Bru'n water confuses the **** out of me too.

Edmonton water is surprisingly decent for brewing, so suck it Calgary! You could check with the local brew club and see what they do for additions, the EHG educational person has an edmonton pdf on her website with quick and dirty salt additions if you don't want to go crazy with it.

 

[Michael_Calgary]

so suck it Calgary!

HAHAHAHA!!! I'm not originally from Calgary, but I get the "need" for these two populations to dig at each other.