Mash Water Calcs - Am I right?

[D-Hutt]

I'm doing my first all-grain batch tomorrow using my converted 13g rectangular cooler. Do I have these infusion/sparge calcs right?

Dusseldorf Altbier
5.25g
OG: 1.051
Efficiency: Estimated 70% since it's my first time doing all-grain
11.3 lbs. grain bill
1.5 qt/lb
Initial Grain Temp: 70F

Step 1: Protein Rest @ 131; Add 17 qts. @ 139.5F (10 min.)
Step 2: Temp Infusion to 152; Add 6.77 qts. @ 212F (60 min)
Step 3: Mash Out to 170; Add 11.2 qts. @212F (10 min)

Here's where I want to make sure I have things right so I get enough for my boil and end up with 5.25g-ish at the end. I'm shooting for 7.5g pre-boil (1g/hr. boiloff).

Assumptions:
1) .5g trub loss
2) 1g equipment loss (probably less, but i'd rather overshoot the first time)
3) .20 g/lb. grain absorption
4) 4% wort shrinkage

At mash out, before adding any sparge water, I'll have 35 qts (8.75g) in the cooler. Subtract 1g equipment loss and 2.25g loss to grain and I can get 5.5g of wort - 2g short of the 7.5g target.

So, that means I need to add 2g of 170F sparge water (batch sparge) after the mash-out to get 7.5g pre-boil wort, yes? Then I should be able to calculate my efficiency (and tweak my assumptions) and be more accurate next time? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[earwig]

There's really no reason to mash out with home brewing, especially if you are batch sparging. Good luck on your first all grain. It's a ton of fun the first time you make sweet wort with no extracts

 

[duboman]

I'm doing my first all-grain batch tomorrow using my converted 13g rectangular cooler. Do I have these infusion/sparge calcs right?

Dusseldorf Altbier
5.25g
OG: 1.051
Efficiency: Estimated 70% since it's my first time doing all-grain
11.3 lbs. grain bill
1.5 qt/lb
Initial Grain Temp: 70F

Step 1: Protein Rest @ 131; Add 17 qts. @ 139.5F (10 min.)
Step 2: Temp Infusion to 152; Add 6.77 qts. @ 212F (60 min)
Step 3: Mash Out to 170; Add 11.2 qts. @212F (10 min)

Here's where I want to make sure I have things right so I get enough for my boil and end up with 5.25g-ish at the end. I'm shooting for 7.5g pre-boil (1g/hr. boiloff).

Assumptions:
1) .5g trub loss
2) 1g equipment loss (probably less, but i'd rather overshoot the first time)
3) .20 g/lb. grain absorption
4) 4% wort shrinkage

At mash out, before adding any sparge water, I'll have 35 qts (8.75g) in the cooler. Subtract 1g equipment loss and 2.25g loss to grain and I can get 5.5g of wort - 2g short of the 7.5g target.

So, that means I need to add 2g of 170F sparge water (batch sparge) after the mash-out to get 7.5g pre-boil wort, yes? Then I should be able to calculate my efficiency (and tweak my assumptions) and be more accurate next time? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

Grain absorption is usually about .12g/lb so I think you're a little high

You shouldn't need boiling water to go from 131 to 152. My strike water is 163-5 to single infusion at 152. As stated mash out isn't necessary.

 

[D-Hutt]

I'm doing my first all-grain batch tomorrow using my converted 13g rectangular cooler. Do I have these infusion/sparge calcs right?

Dusseldorf Altbier
5.25g
OG: 1.051
Efficiency: Estimated 70% since it's my first time doing all-grain
11.3 lbs. grain bill
1.5 qt/lb
Initial Grain Temp: 70F

Step 1: Protein Rest @ 131; Add 17 qts. @ 139.5F (10 min.)
Step 2: Temp Infusion to 152; Add 22.6 qts. @ 170F (60 min)

Here's where I want to make sure I have things right so I get enough for my boil and end up with 5.25g-ish at the end. I'm shooting for 7.5g pre-boil (1g/hr. boiloff).

Assumptions:
1) .5g trub loss
2) 1g equipment loss (probably less, but i'd rather overshoot the first time)
3) .15 g/lb. grain absorption
4) 4% wort shrinkage

Before adding any sparge water, I'll have 40 qts (10g) in the cooler. Subtract 1g equipment loss and 1.7g loss to grain and I can get 7.3g of wort - .2g short of the 7.5g target.

So, that means I need to add .2g of 170F sparge water (batch sparge) after the mash-out to get 7.5g pre-boil wort, yes?

Thanks guys. I redid the calcs and bolded the changes. So for the sparge, I'm thinking .2g of water doesn't seem like enough? Am I missing something here?

 

[mabrungard]

While its not necessary to mash out, there are efficiency gains from that step. If you want to do it, it is worth it. Another good thing about a mash out step is that it brings your wort that much closer to boiling temperature and it reduces the time to bring the kettle to a boil. Its a minor advantage, but in conjunction with the efficiency gain I feel that mash out is worth it.

Stepping with boiling water can help reduce the volume of the infusions. So if the mash tun size is limited, boiling water infusions will help keep everything in the tun.

 

[D-Hutt]

That's partly what I was thinking. If I do go w/ boiling additions and a mashout, does the original plan work? My MLT holds 13g of water.

 

[earwig]

While its not necessary to mash out, there are efficiency gains from that step. If you want to do it, it is worth it. Another good thing about a mash out step is that it brings your wort that much closer to boiling temperature and it reduces the time to bring the kettle to a boil. Its a minor advantage, but in conjunction with the efficiency gain I feel that mash out is worth it.

Stepping with boiling water can help reduce the volume of the infusions. So if the mash tun size is limited, boiling water infusions will help keep everything in the tun.

How is there an efficiency gain by mashing out? Also, batch sparging is bringing the temp up as well...

 

[earwig]

I'm not trying to start a debate but after an hour of mashing, there aren't going to be much if any starches left to convert anyway, so stopping with a mash out is pointless IMO.

It's useful with much larger volumes or in breweries where it takes a lot longer to get the wort from the mash tun to the boiler, but at home these aren't issues.

 

[D-Hutt]

At any rate, I think I'm sticking w/ the boiling additions, because I'm worried I'll run out of space in the MLT. Should I be doughing in thicker for the protein rest than 1.5 qt/lb?

 

[mabrungard]

I'm not trying to start a debate but after an hour of mashing, there aren't going to be much if any starches left to convert anyway, so stopping with a mash out is pointless IMO.

Ah, I see that you have never performed a mash out step. Those that do know that there is an increase in wort gravity of several points. The additional heat helps liberate any trapped starches and it also decreases the viscosity of the wort. Its an easy thing to observe with a refractometer.

Its not so much something to do with conversion since all of the previously liberated starches are probably converted, its the liberation and conversion of the trapped starches.

 

[earwig]

Ah, I see that you have never performed a mash out step. Those that do know that there is an increase in wort gravity of several points. The additional heat helps liberate any trapped starches and it also decreases the viscosity of the wort. Its an easy thing to observe with a refractometer.

Its not so much something to do with conversion since all of the previously liberated starches are probably converted, its the liberation and conversion of the trapped starches.

Mashing out stops conversion from starch to sugar, what good is "liberating" starches with such a high temperature that would prevent them from converting into sugars?

If you mash properly, after 1 hour there won't be anything else to convert. Sparging will rinse the sugars from the grain.

 

[duboman]

Sorry but you two are completely off topic and taking this thread away from the OP, if you would like to continue your mash out debate be polite and take it somewhere else.

To the OP: your revision looks pretty good, all I can say and add is it usually takes a few batches to dial in all your actual volumes and losses so give it a whirl and take good notes and measurements so each batch you can tweak a bit and you'll get everything right.

I still believe your boiling temp is too high for your raise of the step and you will exceed your desired mash temp. If you mash too high you will wind up with a less fermentable wort and have a difficult time hitting your desired FG

 

[D-Hutt]

Thanks for all the help guys. So, I more or less had success w/ Saturdays brew (we'll see what the finished product is like). Things I learned:

1. Don't forget to pre-heat the tun. I forgot, and had to add more water to hit my temps.
2. My efficiency is more than 70%. It's somewhere in the 75% range (ibrewmaster says 77%).
3. Always have A LOT more water than you think you'll need ready to go for the sparge. I ended up adding 3 gallons after I ran off 5.5g of first runnings and just barely got to my 7.5g. Could have gotten maybe another half gallon out of it. Good news is I'm not losing much water in the MLT.
4. The best laid plans of mice and men often go awry.