Marzen With Ale Yeast

[stylus1274]

My beer club is doing a wort share. If you are not familiar with that basically we are brewing a 60 gallon batch and sending each member home with 5 gallons of wort to ferment.

As of right now we are brewing a marzen. That is awesome as I have never done a marzen.

Down side is I haven't done a marzen because I am not able to lager.

That brings me here. I have read older posts and such about ale yeast usage for marzens and ect. but prefer to engage in an up to date post about it.

Yes, I do understand a true marzen is a lager

I know I need to ferment as low as possible to not bring over any esters in the final product.

Outside of that does anyone have any suggestions for a good ale yeast?

It would be great to have feedback on both liquid and dry.

 

[Yooper]

I can't think of any dry ale yeast that I'd prefer for this- S05 can get some "peach" type esters that are out of place, and I think BRY97 might have some tart fruit to it. It's been many many years, but I remember nottingham being lager-like at a low temperature- about 60 degrees. If you can hold 60 degrees, that might work.

The other choice I think of is German ale yeast. Wyeast 1007 would work well, down to 55 degrees.

I guess what we have to know what fermentation temperature you would be able to hold before picking a yeast strain.

 

[JonM]

I've gotten great results with 1007 for pseudo-lagers, so another vote for 1007. You might also have good luck with Kolsch strains, but 1007 will for sure work well.

 

[stylus1274]

Yooper you always respond first to my posts lol.

I've read 05 is OK because it is clean. I will rule out BRY97.

I've also read about using a German ale yeast.

I can do 60. Not sure I can get much below that other than overnight where I can't really monitor the temperature like I can during the day. I may hit 58 while I sleep.

Thinking about K 97 as well.

 

[EDF713]

After reading one of Yooper's posts I gave Notty a try in a cream ale at 60. It wasn't quite a lager, but I couldn't pick up any fruity esters. As much malt flavor as a marzen has I think Notty would work well.

Maybe this is a tangent, but using an ale yeast is not completely unheard of. Saint Arnold's Octoberfest is actually an ale.

Also, have a look at the thread for BierMuncher's OktoberFAST - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=39021 . It used S-04 and other posts in the thread discuss different yeasts used.

 

[Yooper]

Yooper you always respond first to my posts lol.

I've read 05 is OK because it is clean. I will rule out BRY97.

I've also read about using a German ale yeast.

I can do 60. Not sure I can get much below that other than overnight where I can't really monitor the temperature like I can during the day. I may hit 58 while I sleep.

Thinking about K 97 as well.

I would definitely rule out 05- it's not that "clean", and at 60 or so it'll throw some peachy esters which would be totally out of place in a marzen.

I think S04 at 62 or under would be good, as it only gets estery above about 64, plus it will clear the beer well since it drops out like a rock when done.

I think the Wyeast 1007 would be my first choice. Another good choice would be White Labs' 080, cream ale yeast blend.

 

[Joewalla88]

I agree with everyone saying wyeast 1007. I've used it in pseudo lagers before with great result. I've read that k-97 is pretty much a dry version of 1007. I don't know if it's the same, but I used it recently, and thought it turned out great.

 

[BigMack]

If you can keep it at 60* then you could use 34/70. I've used that at right around 60 and it comes out great.

 

[botigol]

I split my last marzen batch and used WY1762 on half, hoping for something different. I fermented it in my basement, which stays in the low 60s and it came out REALLY clean, as in not much different than the other half for which I used WY2206 in my fermentation chamber at 50°F. This was obviously a surprise to me and I only have the one example of use, so take this anecdote for what you think it is worth.

 

[stylus1274]

After reading these responses I'm gonna split it into two 2.5 gallon batches. Do a comparison of 'ale' yeasts for this type of brew.

Interesting info on the 04. I was actually thinking about that but didn't mention it. We have to bring our beer back in April so Muncher's recipe makes sense here.

Maybe I will do the 04 and the 1007.

 

[Queequeg]

WLP090 is very neutral. notty is neutral only if at low temps.

 

[z-bob]

Yooper you always respond first to my posts lol.

I've read 05 is OK because it is clean. I will rule out BRY97.

I've also read about using a German ale yeast.

I can do 60. Not sure I can get much below that other than overnight where I can't really monitor the temperature like I can during the day. I may hit 58 while I sleep.

Thinking about K 97 as well.

I would do K-97, partially because I've just wanted to try K-97

What about going the other direction with it; something like Belle Saison and ferment it warm?

 

[saltymirv]

I'm surprised nobody recommend WLP029, it can make an excellent pseudo lager. The brulosophy guys did a comparison between 029 and saflager w34/70 and participants were unable to tell the difference... That was with 029 fermented at 58F though, it sounds like OP can't sustain temperatures that cold

http://brulosophy.com/2015/04/13/la...al-yeast-vs-hybrid-yeast-exbeeriment-results/

However, White Labs says the optimum temperature for 029 is 65-69F. Seems like a good fit for the OP

 

[Steveruch]

My beer club is doing a wort share. If you are not familiar with that basically we are brewing a 60 gallon batch and sending each member home with 5 gallons of wort to ferment.

As of right now we are brewing a marzen. That is awesome as I have never done a marzen.

Down side is I haven't done a marzen because I am not able to lager.

That brings me here. I have read older posts and such about ale yeast usage for marzens and ect. but prefer to engage in an up to date post about it.

Yes, I do understand a true marzen is a lager

I know I need to ferment as low as possible to not bring over any esters in the final product.

Outside of that does anyone have any suggestions for a good ale yeast?

It would be great to have feedback on both liquid and dry.

http://digitaleditions.walsworthprintgroup.com/publication/frame.php?i=290521&p=&pn=&ver=flex page 88

 

[Lefou]

Bingo, I just got a packet of WLP029 Kolsch yeast and grist to make an experimental Helles. When I saw that same Brulosophy entry, it sold me.
If there's anything I love more than a good bock or weizen, it's a Paulaner Munich lager. Unfortunately, it's over $10/sixpack. If there's a beer I'd try cloning, this would be the one.

After two days of snooping around and comparing yeast stats, I settled on the WLP029.
This yeast fits my water profile, house temperature range in winter/early spring, and crosses over well to other light, malty styles. Love to try the 029 out, because I also picked up a brand-spankin' new ANVIL 7.5gal kettle, but have to brew my wheats first ... can't see wasting a perfectly nice crop of weizen yeast just because I'm in a hurry.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I recall watching a YouTube clip of a guy fermenting with Nottingham ale yeast at a controlled 52 degrees F., and there were bubbles in the airlock, plus a krausen, showing that it was doing its thing. The usual need for a blow-off tube can most likely be skipped at this temperature though.

 

[Paramedicus]

Here's another brulosophy article 34/70 fermented at 70F vs. 50F.

http://brulosophy.com/2016/02/08/fe...ager-yeast-saflager-3470-exbeeriment-results/

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Here's another brulosophy article 34/70 fermented at 70F vs. 50F.

http://brulosophy.com/2016/02/08/fe...ager-yeast-saflager-3470-exbeeriment-results/

Wow! 10 of the 12 taste testers who could actually identify a difference in the properly fermented vs. 20 degrees higher fermented light lager (a statistically insignificant amount of testers vs. the total number of participating testers) stated that they preferred the taste of the high temperature fermented lager to that of the properly fermented lager. 10 out of 12 is very highly statistically significant, and is contrary to all brewing knowledge.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

.... Notty is neutral only if at low temps.

What is the upper limit for this low temperature?

 

[Kent88]

Wyeast 1007, it is good, but you're going to need to let it sit a while in secondary to let the yeast settle out.

 

[Queequeg]

What is the upper limit for this low temperature?

Not sure what the upper limit is but Danstar state a temp range of 57 to 70.

I am have fermented at 60.5 and the resulting beer was very lager like.