Mangrove Jack M31, making a starter?

[stiray]

I am using M31 for a year, first as a substitute for yeast included with kits and the last time as my first full grain batch.

Typically I have added 2 packs (10g, 50 billion cells) for 30 liters batch while on my first full grain I have normally screwed it up and got malt at around 1.090 (and a few other things I wasnt aware of, like leaving hops in beer for whole night). The result was quite surprising, at the end of fermentation it got to around 1.008, getting 11% of alcohol and it was quite sweet with hop hitting at the end.

I wanted to experiment a little bit with this weekend brewing and I would like to try to make a starter.

Now I am having a bit of a problem of how many bags to use for starter as even with the 2 dry yeast bags it is quite violent and typically most of fermentation was done in first few days. I have used the calculators but got me nowhere, I would have to add 4 dry yeast bags as a starter for belgian tripel but based on my experiences this seems a lot as even two of dry yeast were wrecking havoc in my fermentor.

Any suggestion?

 

[lumpher]

Don't make starters with dry yeast. The individual grains you see are yeast coated in nutrients. Rehydrate dry, but don't starter it. If you do, you waste all the food the manufacturers already built in.

 

[Protos]

Not the best yeast choise for such an experiment, I think.

What you're saying (multiple M31 sachets for a 30L batch, multiplied even more in a starter) is the sure way to a massive overpitching. And you'd better not to overpitch Belgian strains or else they loose much of their characteristic flavours.

If you are set on multiplying dry yeasts anyway (though yeast manufacturers say it's not necessary), then much better candidates for your experiment could be M54 or Lalbrew Koeln or Lalbrew New England which are known for their low cell count from the package and for a prolonged lagtime.

 

[stiray]

Guys thank you for your info .

I have smelled something fishy as the yeast is acting quite violent with 2 bags... any more would be too much and I am having my doubts even about using two.

 

[Protos]

You don't really need even two sachets for a 30L batch.
The manufacturer guarantees one sachet to be enough for 25 L. And you may perfectly ferment a 30L batch even with half a sachet. Although it may take a couple of days longer, half sachet of M31 will ferment your wort out even at a 50% underpitch, with a nice bonus of increased fruity flavours. M31 is a Diastatic yeast, it's very vigorous and aggressive.

 

[stiray]

Protos, do you have any suggestion regarding the temperature, I do have an aquarium cooler so I might be able to adjust the temperature a bit. I find it quite hard to find any info about M31.

 

[Protos]

What ambient temperature do you have in your fermentation chamber?
M31 is a warm-tolerant yeast, its temp range is 18-28C. Fermented warm, it produces more fruity esters and no fusels. I fermented it as warm as 28C, never had problems with fusels.
There's quite a bit of talk on M31 on this forum, did you use the Search function?

 

[stiray]

Temperatures vary, I have tried from slow start at 20-21 until the gravity dropped to 1.040 and then getting it to room temperature, to brewing it all the time at room temperature (in both cases around 25). But now it is summer with a heat wave pesting the europe and can regularly get over 30 but with aircondition + fishtank cooler I should be able to keep it down to around 22. Never had an option to regulate the temperature before, doing only seasonal brewing, now I have too many options

The problem with search is that there is barely any debate concentrated on M31 and a lot of info "here and there". Hard to dig out the details, anyway keyword "Diastatic yeast" will keep me awake for a while, watching the explanation right now.

 

[Protos]

22 to 25C is the ideal range for this strain, if you're able to maintain it, you'll have no problems.
Don't worry if the fermentation looks violent, it's actually better for the beer because a vigorous fermentation proceeds faster, reducing the time window for any possible infection settling in the wort.
All things you may find here about Diastatic and Saison yeasts (including the warnings on their capability of infecting your non-diastatic batches if your cleaning is not thorough enough) apply to M31. It's thought to be a blend of a Saison yeast and a certain Belgian fruity strain.

Also, I would suggest to postpone your starter experiments till the colder season. I don't know how it is in Belgium or in America, but the summer air of the Mediterranean (I'm currently residing in the Mediterranean too, the eastern coast) is swarming with airborne microbes and wild yeasts. I believe I have some experience with starters, but in summer I don't dare to mess with my yeasts at all, even with harvesting or backslopping, as too many great batches have been lost to infections despite the most thorough sanitation.