Malt presence in my beers... help!

[scoundrel]

Hi All,

I've been home brewing both extract and (when time permits) all-grain for a couple of years now. I'm hoping some of you grain experts can help.

There are several commercial beers I've drank such as Firestone Walker Union Jack , Bell's Two Hearted IPA, Smuttynose FinestKind IPA and several Stone beers that have a very distinctive malt flavor that is apparent in the aroma and flavor of the beer. Several of these beers list ingredients on their websites and the grains that are typically listed (other than 2-Row) are Munich and Crystal 20-40. I've brewed several beers using these ingredients and I can never seem to get the malt flavor to be more pronounced. I'm not sure of ways to remedy this. Maybe its a pro brewer trick and that's why the beers are so awesome, but I don't think that's it. There must be a technique to make the malt flavor shine. My beers just don't seem complex or balanced enough. Can anyone suggest any methods/tricks to improve my process?

 

[janivar123]

Mash temp and yeast type is two things that can change the caracter of the beer
Might want to split a batch in several fermentors to experiment with different yeast types

 

[Clann]

The type of yeast you use can play an important part in your malt/hops character.
Find a yeast that fits the bill mabye WLP005? The discription says it produces malty beers.

 

[corbomite]

What yeast are you using? Maybe having a drier product is zapping all of your malt taste. Also, if you go here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Malts_Chart, you'll see that crystal 20 and 40 don't have a purely "malty" flavor, just caramel. And while Munich does have a malty flavor, but how much are you using. If you look, most of the beers you listed have ABVs on the upper end. Up your munich a little, or even just up your gravity to get a malty flavor.
One last suggestion would be melanoidin, its a 20L malt that definitely comes off malty.

 

[scoundrel]

Crap i forgot that. Most of the beers (including mine) use English Ale WLP002 or the drier version WLP007.

 

[scoundrel]

What yeast are you using? Maybe having a drier product is zapping all of your malt taste. Also, if you go here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Malts_Chart, you'll see that crystal 20 and 40 don't have a purely "malty" flavor, just caramel. And while Munich does have a malty flavor, but how much are you using. If you look, most of the beers you listed have ABVs on the upper end. Up your munich a little, or even just up your gravity to get a malty flavor.
One last suggestion would be melanoidin, its a 20L malt that definitely comes off malty.

corbomite I think you're right. Melanoidins is an area I have not explored. I found this link that basically sums up your suggestion.

http://www.picobrewery.com/askarchive/melanoidin.htm

Thank you all for your help!!!

 

[ksbrain]

I feel like the "malty" flavor you're talking about is a yeast flavor, from those beers. So I'm surprised you're using a British yeast and not getting that flavor. Maybe a fermentation temperature issue?

 

[bmeyer46]

my two cents worth...mash at a slightly higher temp to keep some residual sweetness, and also agree with profiling yeast for the taste you want.

 

[scoundrel]

I feel like the "malty" flavor you're talking about is a yeast flavor, from those beers. So I'm surprised you're using a British yeast and not getting that flavor. Maybe a fermentation temperature issue?

Funny you say that since I've listened to a few brewer interviews where the trend for malty IPA's seems to be the first 36 hours at 64 degrees and then a free rise to 68-70. I'm building a fermentation chamber but until them my basement maintains a steady 68.

 

[scoundrel]

my two cents worth...mash at a slightly higher temp to keep some residual sweetness, and also agree with profiling yeast for the taste you want.

That makes sense. When I brew AG I'll bump it to 154 or 156. I don't think the aroma and flavor is just sweetness though. There's sweetness along with a nutty/roasty aroma which makes it so complex. I think that's where the malts with Melanoidin come into play. Upping the munich malt % in my recipe will probably help.

Brewing a quick extract batch, however, poses issues. Biscuit, aromatic, and munich malt are supposed to to be mashed, although in small amounts (1lb) or less, I suspect, probably will give me the flavor I want and won't offload too much starch. Alternatively, I guess, the real lazy way may be to work munich lme into the recipe.

 

[bmeyer46]

just do a mini mash to convert the grains! easy to do