Making Traditional rice Wine. Cheap, Fun, and Different

[Darthbrewder]

 

[madwilliamflint]

Very good. I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on the difference in taste. Did you use the whole pack?

If you break it down by weight/grams, the package indicates that you'd only need about a 3rd of the pack for the 6 cup batch you made.

I always use the whole pack though since I'd rather over pitch than use not enough.

WwwwwwHUPS!

I'm so used to dealing with yeast packets that it didn't even occur to me that it would be any different. well, we'll see how it goes.

A couple days in and it's starting to compact down the way it does

 

[Darthbrewder]

Oops I meant to post some text with those pics!
So the red cookie jar is one week in. It is 4 cups medium grain local Louisiana rice. I forget the brand name. And 2 cups botan calrose rice. Cooked stovetop unrinsed, with 2 juqui. After a few days the jar gave off a nice sweet floral scent and after a week it is giving off the same smell but very boozy. The temp inside my home is ~ 75 degrees avg.
I've been reading this thread a lot before and since I started this and decided to try the red mill cereal packet. It has wheat, rye, oats, barley, oat bran, flax, and one other I can't remember the name for. The whole packet came to be right at 5 cups dry. I figured since it was ground so small I would need something to separate it so I decided to cook up the last 2 cups of calrose to mix in with it. Also I had some 2 row malted barley lying around. I decided to ,after the cereal finished cooking, add the malted barley. With the temp of the cereal at 150* F I added 1/2 c. Mixed it very well and left it covered in the pot for 30 mins. Spread the rice and cereal out together to cool and sprinkled 2 juqui over the top. Flipped, sprinkled, flipped ,sprinked, etc. Finally added it all to a gallon pickle jar wrapped it up and put in the closet. The pic you see there is the very next morning. About 8 hours later!
I'm sure someone has done this already but I figured I would show you guys and keep you posted, so you can see how this turns out along with me
Also thanks to sonofgrok for inspiring me. And everyone else who has replied to the thread.
Cheers!

 

[MasterCrook]

As requested, One ready for harvest, one started yesterday.

The black rice really darkened it

 

[ChefRex]

The black rice really darkened it

It defently added color, I have another batch a couple days behind this without the black for comparison.

 

[MasterCrook]

a HA! That's important information.

I harvested off my first batch first by straining (put a glop of stuff in the strainer and roll it around until it rolled as a single mass), then pouring into a secondary glass bottle to let separate, then I poured out what was clear and poured the rest back into the primary with everything else.

Those two glass jars I started off the lees from the first batch. And everything seemed fine for weeks (which is why I thought the "starting from lees from a previous batch doesn't work" was hogwash) except for exactly what you just mentioned, it seems to not want to separate.

I went through the same process, but the yield of clear liquid was very small, even though rather a lot came through the strainer on the front end.

What I wonder (based on what I think I know) is if mold spores don't behave like yeast in that they'll just grow ravenously from almost nothing.

So what I did this weekend was crush up and added one yeast ball to each jar to see what happens.

I think the reason this doesn't work out is because the yeast needs to start the growth of an ideal environment for the mold. If the mold is just put into a non ideal environment, it wouldn't be too successful in growing.

 

[madwilliamflint]

Very good. I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on the difference in taste. Did you use the whole pack?

If you break it down by weight/grams, the package indicates that you'd only need about a 3rd of the pack for the 6 cup batch you made.

I always use the whole pack though since I'd rather over pitch than use not enough.

hrm... 4 days later and the ARL batch is moldy. Like...moldy moldy. green.

Not sure what I did. Too wet?

 

[AbstractBrewer]

Jak1010,

Did you try the yeast balls for cider yet? I think I'm going to try a gallon starting tomorrow. I'll run it along side of 10 gallons with Montrachet. See how it goes.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[jak1010]

hrm... 4 days later and the ARL batch is moldy. Like...moldy moldy. green.

Not sure what I did. Too wet?

Green? That's new. I haven't had any green mold. Maybe too wet but possibly a combo of too wet and too much light? I'm not sure what to say about how to proceed. If it's green, I wouldn't risk it.

 

[jak1010]

Jak1010,

Did you try the yeast balls for cider yet? I think I'm going to try a gallon starting tomorrow. I'll run it along side of 10 gallons with Montrachet. See how it goes.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

I haven't yet. I usually start making cider in May/June so that it's ready for Fall but work was too busy. Maybe I'll start a batch next week just for the heck of it.

My usual cider production is 10 gallons using Montrachet, a few 5 gallon batches of concentrate with 2lbs of honey and multiple 1 gallon batches of spiced cider. These usually hold me over till Christmas. It's now mid August and I haven't started a single batch.

 

[madwilliamflint]

Green? That's new. I haven't had any green mold. Maybe too wet but possibly a combo of too wet and too much light? I'm not sure what to say about how to proceed. If it's green, I wouldn't risk it.

Definitely not. It's going tonight. I just didn't have time to fiddlyfart with it this morning when I noticed.

It's not light since it's hanging out with all the rest of my stuff. I didn't think it was any wetter than any of the other batches.

That's the good thing about experiments with rice. It's about $0.05/ton.

I'll just re-star san the container and cook up another batch when I get home.

UPDATE: Kicked off that new ARL batch. 6 cups of jasmine rice, washed and cooked. I'm tellin ya I love my rice maker. You've got to put a little more water in it than it says, otherwise there'll be a little bit of scorching at the end. Not enough to worry about though.

 

[jak1010]

OK, started this batch on 7/31 and today marks day 22. I was supposed to harvest yesterday but I'm off from work and been busy relaxing. Maybe tomorrow or Sunday. I'm going to harvest and put it back in the jar with the cheesecloth and lid for another week before bottling. Here's a few pictures. Smells friggin amazing.

 

[pdxal]

Supposed to harvest on day 21? I guess I missed that memo. My batches keep fermenting and off gassing until at least 5-6 weeks. I usually harvest at 6-7 weeks to be safe and ensure fermentation is complete. Just like beer, no harm and usually benefit by being patient. I hope the batch turns out well.

 

[MasterCrook]

Supposed to harvest on day 21? I guess I missed that memo. My batches keep fermenting and off gassing until at least 5-6 weeks. I usually harvest at 6-7 weeks to be safe and ensure fermentation is complete. Just like beer, no harm and usually benefit by being patient. I hope the batch turns out well.

I usually go for 30 days, at that point the bubbling slows down a lot, almost stops. Not worth the wait to go any longer imo

 

[jak1010]

Supposed to harvest on day 21? I guess I missed that memo. My batches keep fermenting and off gassing until at least 5-6 weeks. I usually harvest at 6-7 weeks to be safe and ensure fermentation is complete. Just like beer, no harm and usually benefit by being patient. I hope the batch turns out well.

It's usually what I do to keep it from going too dry. After I harvest, I do a secondary for another week to 10 days before I bottle.

I usually go for 30 days, at that point the bubbling slows down a lot, almost stops. Not worth the wait to go any longer imo

There was someone in thus thread who did a large batch and didn't harvest for about 5-6 months. He reported back that it was still fine.

 

[Darthbrewder]

I usually go for 30 days, at that point the bubbling slows down a lot, almost stops. Not worth the wait to go any longer imo

Is there much of a flavor difference between the 3rd and 4th weeks? I have, today, a 2 week old batch and have really been itching to bust into it at 3 weeks. Also I thought if you wait too long you end up with vineger. Guessing that depends on the conditions?

 

[ChefRex]

I have a bottle from March, waiting till around six months befor I try it.

 

[madwilliamflint]

Hmm... gotta check my calendar when I get home. Sounds like from what y'all are saying, that I should be harvesting this weekend.

 

[BGBC]

Is there much of a flavor difference between the 3rd and 4th weeks? I have, today, a 2 week old batch and have really been itching to bust into it at 3 weeks. Also I thought if you wait too long you end up with vineger. Guessing that depends on the conditions?

Just a couple of random notes from recent batches:
- Thai Jasmine w/ ARL: Harvested at 4 weeks, pasteurized immediately. This has been my favorite batch so far. Sweet and very drinkable. Crystal clear with some time in the fridge. Went over well with friends too.
- Thai Jasmine w/ ARL, RYR, and some lees from a prior batch: Harvested at 4 weeks, returned to container for a week, then pasteurized. Very dry and lots of hot alcohol. Did not drop clear in the fridge and is still pretty opaque even after passing through a coffee filter. I bottled most of this one up and will let it sit for a few months and see if it improves.

In the future, I think I'll stick to harvesting at 4 weeks, but will pasteurize immediately to retain some of that sweetness.

 

[pdxal]

Is there much of a flavor difference between the 3rd and 4th weeks? I have, today, a 2 week old batch and have really been itching to bust into it at 3 weeks. Also I thought if you wait too long you end up with vineger. Guessing that depends on the conditions?

Not much difference in flavor between 3 weeks and 4, but it is no longer carbonated at 5-7 weeks. From there to 6 months I haven't noticed any differences. I've never had a batch turn to vinegar. I would assume that it results from poor sanitation and contamination/infection from acetobacter.
Are others getting vinegar?

 

[Darthbrewder]

Not much difference in flavor between 3 weeks and 4, but it is no longer carbonated at 5-7 weeks. From there to 6 months I haven't noticed any differences. I've never had a batch turn to vinegar. I would assume that it results from poor sanitation and contamination/infection from acetobacter.

Are others getting vinegar?

I see. I personally haven't made vinegar. As this is my first batch of the stuff. How does the flavor profile compare to an unfiltered sake? At first I thought it would be similar but I tried some of the rice after 10 days or so and it tasted more like really sweet alcoholic yogurt. Not bad at all, just not what I expected. Also what do you prefer, carbonated or uncarbonated?

 

[jak1010]

You got that right. I've even been guilty of serving a pitcher or two during bottling. I figure if it tastes good enough why not drink it? It definately tasted better after aging a bit in the bottles and it's always nice to hear the little hiss from popping the top, but beer is beer and good is good.

If you're going to try the fermented rice, steel a sample at day 3 or 4 and chill it before eating. When making a batch of wine, I usually make about an extra cup of rice and put it in a separate container with yeast just for eating. At day 3, 4 or 5 I chill and eat it. A very nice treat.

 

[pdxal]

I prefer the clear, rather than cloudy/nigori, and completely finished fermenting and not carbonated version myself. To each his own. Lots of people like the cloudy and sweeter version, and it isn't bad, just not my favorite.
My rice wine never gets as dry as commercial sake, even nigori. If anyone has ideas for getting a drier finish than settling out the solids or filtration/fining can achieve, I'd like to hear them.
Darth, you've got to try some sake alongside yours when harvest time comes so you can compare.

 

[ChefRex]

Just a couple of random notes from recent batches:
- Thai Jasmine w/ ARL: Harvested at 4 weeks, pasteurized immediately. This has been my favorite batch so far. Sweet and very drinkable. Crystal clear with some time in the fridge. Went over well with friends too.
- Thai Jasmine w/ ARL, RYR, and some lees from a prior batch: Harvested at 4 weeks, returned to container for a week, then pasteurized. Very dry and lots of hot alcohol. Did not drop clear in the fridge and is still pretty opaque even after passing through a coffee filter. I bottled most of this one up and will let it sit for a few months and see if it improves.

In the future, I think I'll stick to harvesting at 4 weeks, but will pasteurize immediately to retain some of that sweetness.

I think the issue with the second batch is reusing the lees and not the pasteurization, I think you should revisit that batch.

 

[BGBC]

I think the issue with the second batch is reusing the lees and not the pasteurization, I think you should revisit that batch.

Could be. Too many variables. Won't try to reuse lees again though. Didn't gain anything by it.

 

[Darthbrewder]

I prefer the clear, rather than cloudy/nigori, and completely finished fermenting and not carbonated version myself. To each his own. Lots of people like the cloudy and sweeter version, and it isn't bad, just not my favorite.

My rice wine never gets as dry as commercial sake, even nigori. If anyone has ideas for getting a drier finish than settling out the solids or filtration/fining can achieve, I'd like to hear them.

Darth, you've got to try some sake alongside yours when harvest time comes so you can compare.

I guess I'm going to have to wait and see which I prefer. I do love me some unfiltered sake. Pretty much any type of sake honestly lol.
Only thing I can think of to get a drier finish is to use a different type of yeast? Maybe use ground RYR for the enzymes and use some champagne yeast instead of the balls or ARL? Dunno, might be worth a try.

 

[Cheesy_Goodness]

Been wanting to try this for a while now, think i'll pull the trigger this weekend. I've got the ingredients, but i'm not 100% on the vessel. I've got a 2 gallon ceramic crock used for kombucha with no lid (cheesecloth), or an old glass milk jug(that has a lid) with a small opening, which might make the transfer of rice a royal pain. Pros and cons to both, I guess.
Any input?

 

[BGBC]

I guess I'm going to have to wait and see which I prefer. I do love me some unfiltered sake. Pretty much any type of sake honestly lol.
Only thing I can think of to get a drier finish is to use a different type of yeast? Maybe use ground RYR for the enzymes and use some champagne yeast instead of the balls or ARL? Dunno, might be worth a try.

I believe a higher water to rice ratio also tends to yield a drier end product. Could also try adding water during the process, or after harvest/before pasteurization.

 

[MasterCrook]

Is there much of a flavor difference between the 3rd and 4th weeks? I have, today, a 2 week old batch and have really been itching to bust into it at 3 weeks. Also I thought if you wait too long you end up with vineger. Guessing that depends on the conditions?

The batches let go for 3 weeks were sweeter, the ones I've let go for 4 weeks were dryer and crisp. I prefer the dryer sharp flavour of 4 weeks, so that's all I do now. It's nowhere close to being vinegar, so I wouldn't worry about that.

 

[MasterCrook]

I believe a higher water to rice ratio also tends to yield a drier end product. Could also try adding water during the process, or after harvest/before pasteurization.

Add before before putting the lid on for fermentation, this will give dryer wine

 

[madwilliamflint]

Damn. My first batch must have been beginner's luck. I'm getting almost no yield. It's amazing. Not only on the one I started with the leaving from other batches either. Decided to run 4 side-by-side batches with different levels of yeast. Just put in a big yeast ball order .

Got a big wedding in 4 weeks I'd REALLY like to bring half a dozen bottles.

 

[pdxal]

I guess I'm going to have to wait and see which I prefer. I do love me some unfiltered sake. Pretty much any type of sake honestly lol.
Only thing I can think of to get a drier finish is to use a different type of yeast? Maybe use ground RYR for the enzymes and use some champagne yeast instead of the balls or ARL? Dunno, might be worth a try.

Champagne yeast won't work on its own. The yeast balls have mold that breaks down the starches in the rice into sugars that the yeast in the balls can then ferment into CO2 and alcohol.
Not sure if RYR is going to have enough mold with the enzymes needed to produce a dry batch. I think folks on here are using the RYR for flavor, not amylase.

 

[Darthbrewder]

Champagne yeast won't work on its own. The yeast balls have mold that breaks down the starches in the rice into sugars that the yeast in the balls can then ferment into CO2 and alcohol.

Not sure if RYR is going to have enough mold with the enzymes needed to produce a dry batch. I think folks on here are using the RYR for flavor, not amylase.

From what I understand the red yeast rice contains the same mold that the juqui contains. I could be wrong of course ;P

 

[pdxal]

You should give it a shot. The Jiu Qiu have a different type of mold in them, but it would be interesting to see if your experiment works.

 

[Darthbrewder]

Unfortunately that project will have to wait till after payday. I'm definitely not above trying it though. By the time I decide to order some RYR to try, I'm sure someone will chime in that knows more. Maybe even someone who has tried it, or something similar.

 

[jak1010]

I can speak from experience. RYR alone doesn't have what it takes to produce a wine. It's a great addition to a batch but, you definitely need yeast balls included in order for the batch to produce wine.

 

[Darthbrewder]

I can speak from experience. RYR alone doesn't have what it takes to produce a wine. It's a great addition to a batch but, you definitely need yeast balls included in order for the batch to produce wine.

So the RYR doesn't have enough diastatic power in any amount to convert starches to sugars?

 

[mythbustingpyro]

Maybe Im wrong, but shouldnt you be able to underpitch on the yeast balls to only convert the sugar partially and then ferment it dry with another yeast?

 

[ncredneck]

Has anyone tried this with black rice?
And if so how did it turn out?

 

[LabRatBrewer]

I'd like to have a batch go all the way to vinegar. How long would it take? Would exposing it to o2 help or hurt. (I guess I should good making vinegar).