Making a (more) sour & smokey saison

[hausnfranz]

Howdy,

I made a smokey sour saison and it turned out alright, except it wasn't that sour after fermenting 10% of the base malt for two days at 120 degrees.

What options do I have for increasing sourness? If I increase the percentage of base malt that is fermented, will that affect my efficiency? If I do 20% this time, do I account for loss of efficiency and use more base malt overall?

My directions after researching were: "Sour mash with 10% of grist 18hrs to 2 days before and then add in at dough in." Is pH affected much by added that acidic of malt at dough in?

I bought some lactic acid but never used it, maybe that would be another option?

5gal all grain batch:
3.25kg pale malt
1.00 kg smoked malt
0.68 kg vienna malt
0.45 kg flaked wheat
0.23 crystal malt 30L

 

[ChicagoJack86]

when you said "fermenting" for 2 days at 120 degrees, did you mean you were mashing it?

 

[hausnfranz]

That's correct, I was steeping the grain in 120 degree water over two days.

I re-read the initial BYO article I followed (http://byo.com/all-grain-brewing/item/1691-sour-mashing-techniques) and I am still confused about efficiency. I am going to increase the % of base malt that I sour mash, say 40% (up from 20%) but how do I ensure efficiency is maintained? Especially if I am adding the sour mash liquid right before laundering, so the sour mash is never converted?

 

[ChicagoJack86]

Did you do the general guideline of 1.25qt per lb of grain?

 

[hausnfranz]

I did.

 

[inflictor-of-grimness]

How sour is it? In my experience, the sourness will come out more after fermentation when the beer/wort is less sweet

 

[SpeedYellow]

Why are you adding the small sour mash to the main mash at dough in? Your sour mash has already been mashed, so there's no reason to mash it again. Or if you really want to include it with your main mash, just add it after conversion is complete. If you really want a sour beer, then by definition, your pH will be low, so you can't expect to add it to the main mash without wrecking the pH.

I believe your BYO article also says what I just said.

 

[terrapinj]

if you are just steeping at 120 you won't get any conversion to give the bacteria sugar to chew on - i know they can break down starches long term but i doubt that happens in a few days time

generally you mash as you normally would then inoculate with more grain or something carrying lactic acid producing bacteria after cooling it back down to 100-120° - be sure to keep oxygen out by purging with co2 or covering the top of the wort/grain with plastic wrap etc