made the plunge...Beersmith

[70Cuda383]

ok. I'm a fool for not using this wonderful tool earlier, clearly I don't know ANYTHING about calculating bitter units, color, etc. and would study recipies that had good reviews, what was in them, and trying to mimic them with my own twist by reading different "flavor profiles" of different hops and grains.

anyway. good thing I used it as I was about to make the worlds most mouth puckering, bitter tasting beer by using WAY too much Hops.


now, my question....as I'm learning to use this program, I need to understand the sparging steps.

I'm a single infusion mash, batch sparge guy. to me, this has always meant to add the grains and water to target my mash temp, then after an hour, time to sparge.

I thought that after mashing at 150-158 depending on your desired body, you needed to raise the mash to 168 before doing the run-off, so that you can get the sugars into suspension. this was done by adding enough near boiling water to get the temps up 10 degrees, stiring then draining.

then add sparge water at 168 and stir it up very well then drain to "rinse" the sugar away.

I don't see how to program that into beersmith under batch sparge. it does however, tell me to sparge in 3 steps, AT 168. first time it calls for about 1/4 gallon? then 2 more sparges of 2 1/4 gallons each?

what does this mean? why does it not tell me to raise my mash temp by adding hot water for the first run-off?

shooting to increase my efficiencies of all-grain, and part of that will require me to figure out exactly what it is I'm supposed to be doing!

 

[Yooper]

ok. I'm a fool for not using this wonderful tool earlier, clearly I don't know ANYTHING about calculating bitter units, color, etc. and would study recipies that had good reviews, what was in them, and trying to mimic them with my own twist by reading different "flavor profiles" of different hops and grains.

anyway. good thing I used it as I was about to make the worlds most mouth puckering, bitter tasting beer by using WAY too much Hops.


now, my question....as I'm learning to use this program, I need to understand the sparging steps.

I'm a single infusion mash, batch sparge guy. to me, this has always meant to add the grains and water to target my mash temp, then after an hour, time to sparge.

I thought that after mashing at 150-158 depending on your desired body, you needed to raise the mash to 168 before doing the run-off, so that you can get the sugars into suspension. this was done by adding enough near boiling water to get the temps up 10 degrees, stiring then draining.

then add sparge water at 168 and stir it up very well then drain to "rinse" the sugar away.

I don't see how to program that into beersmith under batch sparge. it does however, tell me to sparge in 3 steps, AT 168. first time it calls for about 1/4 gallon? then 2 more sparges of 2 1/4 gallons each?

what does this mean? why does it not tell me to raise my mash temp by adding hot water for the first run-off?

shooting to increase my efficiencies of all-grain, and part of that will require me to figure out exactly what it is I'm supposed to be doing!

I don't think there is a good "batch sparge" profile in Beersmith. But what I've done to tweak it is to use the "single infusion, medium body" profile. Then, you see that there is a mash out and it says to fly sparge with xx gallons.

If you look at it, the mash out is usually around 202 degrees, and about half the volume of the total sparge water. So what I've done is use THAT profile, but still batch sparge.

What I mean is, I drain the MLT and then use the "mash out addition" as my first round of batch sparging. That brings the grainbed up to 168. I vorlauf and drain, and use the second amount as my second addition.

I'll look at Beersmith more today (I've been flysparging more lately) and see if I can find a better profile but following the one above (with the tweaks) works also.

 

[70Cuda383]

I don't think there is a good "batch sparge" profile in Beersmith. But what I've done to tweak it is to use the "single infusion, medium body" profile. Then, you see that there is a mash out and it says to fly sparge with xx gallons.

If you look at it, the mash out is usually around 202 degrees, and about half the volume of the total sparge water. So what I've done is use THAT profile, but still batch sparge.

What I mean is, I drain the MLT and then use the "mash out addition" as my first round of batch sparging. That brings the grainbed up to 168. I vorlauf and drain, and use the second amount as my second addition.

I'll look at Beersmith more today (I've been flysparging more lately) and see if I can find a better profile but following the one above (with the tweaks) works also.

Thanks, but that's what I have selected..."single infusion, medium body, batch sparge"

it says "batch sparge with 3 steps, (.27 gal, 2.26 gal, 2.26 gal) with 168 degree water"

why the "first sparge" of only .27 gallon? is this added to the MLT at the end of the mash period? how does only adding a 1/4 gallon of water at 168, raise the temps of the grains 10-15 degrees? or am I supposed to drain the mash first, THEN add the 1/4 gallon to raise the grain bed temps, THEN do the 2 batch sparges?

 

[70Cuda383]

I'm on beersmith 2.0 if that matters. just downloaded it yesterday

 

[rack04]

Did you select drain before sparging? Did you input the size of your mash tun in the profile? Maybe it thinks that you mash tun doesn't have the volume to do the full sparge. Did you select equal batch sparge?

 

[ClarnoBrewer]

I love Beersmith. Mainly for the ease of designing new recipes. However, since my system is a recirculating system, and I've been fly sparging, I find it easier to ignore the mash profile and just mash the way I want. I mash in wherever the recipe would indicate (I do let Beersmith tell me the strike water temp) and use about 1.5 quarts/pound. Then I fly sparge and just keep an eye on the water levels.

If it were easier to make Beersmith fit this, I'd do it, but I guess I'm too lazy to figure it out.

 

[weirdboy]

What I normally do is select "single infusion, batch sparge, no mashout" and then manually add a step to raise the temp to 168F.

It is strange that for whatever reason, there isn't a batch sparge with mashout already in there. I suppose it is probably easy to add that type of profile so that it's always there, but I haven't looked into that part of the customization yet.

Another option is to do a thin decoction after your normal infusion mash.

Also, it seems like I was able to do this in 1.0 without so much work.

 

[70Cuda383]

Did you select drain before sparging? Did you input the size of your mash tun in the profile? Maybe it thinks that you mash tun doesn't have the volume to do the full sparge. Did you select equal batch sparge?

I'm still looking around and figuring it all out. I don't even see where I can select those options when working with the mash steps...

 

[Yooper]

Thanks, but that's what I have selected..."single infusion, medium body, batch sparge"

it says "batch sparge with 3 steps, (.27 gal, 2.26 gal, 2.26 gal) with 168 degree water"

I don't think you're understanding what I said. I said, "single infusion, medium body", not the "batch sparge" option. If you do the "regular" one, it does say to mash out and fly sparge. But instead of using it as a mash out, use THAT infusion as sparge #1 after draining the MLT. Then use the "sparge with 2 gallons" instructions as the second batch sparge.

 

[Yooper]

Thanks, but that's what I have selected..."single infusion, medium body, batch sparge"

it says "batch sparge with 3 steps, (.27 gal, 2.26 gal, 2.26 gal) with 168 degree water"

why the "first sparge" of only .27 gallon? is this added to the MLT at the end of the mash period? how does only adding a 1/4 gallon of water at 168, raise the temps of the grains 10-15 degrees? or am I supposed to drain the mash first, THEN add the 1/4 gallon to raise the grain bed temps, THEN do the 2 batch sparges?

There is a check box in the options where you select "fill mashtun with XXX%" or something like that, as well as checking a box to select two batch sparges.

 

[70Cuda383]

I'm not even sure what fields I need to be adjusting in here. I've set grain temp/equipment temp for the initial mash-in, which says to add 12 quarts of water at 163, to get my mash temp of 152, that makes sense to me.

but what is the "decotion boil temp" field for? I'm not trying to do a decotion mash, and have "single infusion" selected. from that drop down menu I can select decotion mash" with different stages if I wanted to.

and where do I select "drain grain before sparge" or "equal sparge volumes"? I don't even see where I can set how many sparges to do?

 

[Yooper]

You could try PM'ing me your email address, and I'll email you a Beersmith file that I have set up, and we could work it out through this thread, if you want.

In the one you have opinion, double click on the highlighted "mash in" part in the big box and it'll take you to options to set the correct mash temp, water amount (1.25 quarts per pound, for example) and those other options.

 

[70Cuda383]

There is a check box in the options where you select "fill mashtun with XXX%" or something like that, as well as checking a box to select two batch sparges.

OK, thanks. I'll look there. (you typed this as I was screen capturing and posting my post above with the pic)

 

[ClarnoBrewer]

I don't think you're understanding what I said. I said, "single infusion, medium body", not the "batch sparge" option. If you do the "regular" one, it does say to mash out and fly sparge. But instead of using it as a mash out, use THAT infusion as sparge #1 after draining the MLT. Then use the "sparge with 2 gallons" instructions as the second batch sparge.

It seems like batch sparging is the norm now, so I didn't realize that the default is to fly sparge. I find that the volumes indicated in BS can be a little ridiculous. As long as I have plenty of water in my HLT, I just fly sparge until my kettle is full. I mainly like the recipe design side of BS.

Having said that, how is my predicted and actual efficiency affected by not necessarily inputting the mash I'm doing? As long as the recipe is right and my SGs are right, am I doing any harm to BS's computations by not following the mash profile?

 

[ClarnoBrewer]

You could try PM'ing me your email address, and I'll email you a Beersmith file that I have set up, and we could work it out through this thread, if you want.

In the one you have opinion, double click on the highlighted "mash in" part in the big box and it'll take you to options to set the correct mash temp, water amount (1.25 quarts per pound, for example) and those other options.

I'm interested in following this as well, so you're both welcome to keep it in this thread, if you'd like.

 

[70Cuda383]

OK, I found the "fly sparge" option of single infusion mash, medium body. and now it automatically added a 2nd step of adding 6 quarts of water to bring temps to 168. THAT makes sense now!

here's another screen shot...

 

[Yooper]

Yep! And now double click that "sparge" step and you can see the set up.

I'm not saying this is the "right" way- it's just my work around solution for this issue. There just isn't a great batch sparge option "out of the box" and it's easier to do this for me than adding the mash into the program, although you can certainly do that.

 

[Yooper]

Having said that, how is my predicted and actual efficiency affected by not necessarily inputting the mash I'm doing? As long as the recipe is right and my SGs are right, am I doing any harm to BS's computations by not following the mash profile?

No! The "defaults" are pretty good, but you see some of them are silly. The "default" might go to a 4 day primary, with a mash temp of 158! It's a great tool but the program isn't really set up until you change some of the settings to your equipment, your efficiency, your preferences, etc.

 

[70Cuda383]

so I mash with 12 quarts at 163 to get mash temps of 152, then add 6 quarts of 200 degree water to raise up to 168, drain, then add the full volume of "fly sparge" water of almost 3.5 gallons at 168 to do the batch sparge?


now, on to the question where earlier someone said "draining batch sparge fast is bad, needs to take 30 minutes" comment...

I had read that draining fast when batch sparging is a good thing, slow draining is for fly sparge?

do I need to slow down my drain? I can drain 3 gallons of water out of my system in about 3 or 4 minutes!!!

 

[Yooper]

What I normally do is select "single infusion, batch sparge, no mashout" and then manually add a step to raise the temp to 168F.

It is strange that for whatever reason, there isn't a batch sparge with mashout already in there. I suppose it is probably easy to add that type of profile so that it's always there, but I haven't looked into that part of the customization yet.

Another option is to do a thin decoction after your normal infusion mash.

Also, it seems like I was able to do this in 1.0 without so much work.

I agree with the weirdboy. In 1.0, there was an easier way to copy the mash profile, and customize it by adding a no-mash out batch sparge with the correct temperature calculated in the first sparge water addition. I imagine it's quite possible with this version, but I'm no computer whiz and just haven't played with it enough.

I go back and forth between fly sparging and batch sparging, often batch sparging when I feel rushed. My equipment doesn't change, so I really just do what I feel like.

 

[Yooper]

so I mash with 12 quarts at 163 to get mash temps of 152, then add 6 quarts of 200 degree water to raise up to 168, drain, then add the full volume of "fly sparge" water of almost 3.5 gallons at 168 to do the batch sparge?


now, on to the question where earlier someone said "draining batch sparge fast is bad, needs to take 30 minutes" comment...

I had read that draining fast when batch sparging is a good thing, slow draining is for fly sparge?

do I need to slow down my drain? I can drain 3 gallons of water out of my system in about 3 or 4 minutes!!!

What I do, is ignore the "mash out" and just use that to get the temperature. I still drain the MLT before adding that first sparge (mash out) addition. You will get slightly better efficiency that way, plus it's a quick way to get those first runnings on to boil.

For batch sparging, there is no reason to wait or to drain slowly. It's a stir like crazy and let 'er rip procedure.

The expert I know of in batch sparging is Denny (dennybrew.com) or on this forum: Home Brew Talk - Denny

Denny could certainly tell you why a fast drain is fine, as well as the reasoning behind it. He's the expert. I'm just a brewer that finds what works for me.

 

[70Cuda383]

What I do, is ignore the "mash out" and just use that to get the temperature. I still drain the MLT before adding that first sparge (mash out) addition. You will get slightly better efficiency that way, plus it's a quick way to get those first runnings on to boil.

For batch sparging, there is no reason to wait or to drain slowly. It's a stir like crazy and let 'er rip procedure.

The expert I know of in batch sparging is Denny (dennybrew.com) or on this forum: Home Brew Talk - Denny

Denny could certainly tell you why a fast drain is fine, as well as the reasoning behind it. He's the expert. I'm just a brewer that finds what works for me.

OK, so drain first, THEN add the "mash out" water of 6 quarts to raise the grain bed temp? THEN add the "fly sparge" volume for batch sparge?

maybe that's why my efficiencies have been so low on my first few all grains...I've been adding hot water to the mash to raise temps before draining anything.

 

[70Cuda383]

I got the email file you sent, but it's time to go run some errands, so I'll post back later after looking at it.

And yes, I've read the Dannybrew stuff a lot, which is why I was draining as fast as the system allows, since he said it was fine that way.

 

[Yooper]

OK, so drain first, THEN add the "mash out" water of 6 quarts to raise the grain bed temp? THEN add the "fly sparge" volume for batch sparge?

maybe that's why my efficiencies have been so low on my first few all grains...I've been adding hot water to the mash to raise temps before draining anything.

You can do a mash-out and it'll work just fine. But you don't have to, that was my point.