Low Enzymatic/Cold Mash/Low alcohol beer

Williams 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
beersk said:
Did you post the recipe somewhere? I may have missed it.
Click to expand...

I didn't post it, but here it is in a nutshell:

~5.3g batch

1.8# Maris-Otter
1.0# Munich
0.6# Crystal 40
0.5# Aromatic
0.25# Special B

Various leftover hops to target 19 IBU

Mash in a bag at 162 degrees F.

WLP002 yeast

OG = 1.021
FG = 1.010
 
Nice. Thanks. I've been reading the Sub 1.030 beers thread. I feel sort of a renewed inspiration. My goal is sobriety but still be able to brew and "enjoy" homebrews. How many pints of 2-2.5% abv beer would it take to really feel a buzz? Like 10? Yeah, I'm not drinking that many. LOL
But the midwest just got dumped on with snow with more snow coming tomorrow and it's going to be -16F Saturday and Sunday night. So I probably won't brew any time soon.
 
I've got a brew schedule to keep, so Friday after work will be my next cold mash brew, and Saturday will be my first go at a NEIPA before I winterize my brewing space for the cold snap.

Then Saturday night will use those sub-zero temps for an Eis beer. Then I'll be using the cold mash yeast cake for a nice mild or bitter the balance the big beers that have suddenly piled up.
 
beersk said:
I never considered this until now but some of this "different" flavor could be from needing to lower the pH further because there isn't enough fermentation to lower the pH into proper levels. Without a pH meter I can't measure precisely. But if one were to acidify, as they normally do, to a level of, say, pH 5.3 in the mash then maybe slightly post-boil, this still wouldn't be enough to bring the pH down to levels you'd normally see in regular strength beers because there is less fermentation activity and less for the yeast to do. Or am I off base on that?
If not, this could be a key component to improving these beers. I guess if anyone has taken a pH reading of a cold mashed finished beer without extra acidification to see what the final reading is, we would know for sure...
Click to expand...
My caveat is that this is after its been carbonated on 60/40 Nitro and is at serving condition.

20240111_183407.jpg
 
Agent said:
My caveat is that this is after its been carbonated on 60/40 Nitro and is at serving condition.

View attachment 838801
Click to expand...
I was finding most of my beers >1.5% ABV were hitting reasonable pH (uncarb'd), and <1% were >pH 4.6. I was looking at food safety, but obviously flavor matters too.

I tested one beer carb'd and it went from 4.7 to 4.4 from carb, which was more than I expected*. Maybe it was 4.65 to 4.44 with unfortunate rounding.

*Expected with absolutely no basis beyond "gut".

(These were mostly S-04. Not sure if yeast varies re acidification. Probably?)
 
I did a 3% NEIPA recently by targeting my recipe for 3.5% and then mashing at 164°F to retain mouthfeel. The higher mash temp favors the hard to ferment sugars. I used Hornindal Kveik yeast and a double dose of yeast nutrient. Also adjusted my hop schedule to maintain an IPA’ish BU:GU ratio. The beer turned out tasty with out being thin or sweet at 3%. There is probably a low limit on target SG where the Kveik yeast won’t work well.
 
mashdar said:
I was finding most of my beers >1.5% ABV were hitting reasonable pH (uncarb'd), and <1% were >pH 4.6. I was looking at food safety, but obviously flavor matters too.

I tested one beer carb'd and it went from 4.7 to 4.4 from carb, which was more than I expected*. Maybe it was 4.65 to 4.44 with unfortunate rounding.

*Expected with absolutely no basis beyond "gut".

(These were mostly S-04. Not sure if yeast varies re acidification. Probably?)
Click to expand...
So, it seems like the pH is dropping accordingly to a point then needs adjusted further? I wonder how this would affect the flavor...
 
youngdh said:
I did a 3% NEIPA recently by targeting my recipe for 3.5% and then mashing at 164°F to retain mouthfeel. The higher mash temp favors the hard to ferment sugars. I used Hornindal Kveik yeast and a double dose of yeast nutrient. Also adjusted my hop schedule to maintain an IPA’ish BU:GU ratio. The beer turned out tasty with out being thin or sweet at 3%. There is probably a low limit on target SG where the Kveik yeast won’t work well.
Click to expand...
So a 1 hour (or overnight) cold soak of the crushed grains, then heat the wort to 164°F then rest for ____ minutes, then heat to a boil?
 
Here's the one I'm trying again tonight. This will be pressure fermented at 66.6F at 10PSI and go on the nitro faucet. It looks dark but it won't end up that dark. Should be about perfect, I think.

1705248369313.png


I made one similar back in 2021 that was pretty good. Back then I wasn't on the verge of "quitting" brewing or drinking beer, just was taking a doctor's-orders-2-month-break (which turned out, in my opinion, to not be alcohol related) and this was good but I wasn't committed to it as a long term solution. But now I am. This has 4oz more of caramunich for the needed sweetness for this type of brewing.
My plan is to mash overnight in my fermentation fridge at 40F, brew in a bag. Pull the bag in the morning and let the kettle settle for at least 4 hours. Then run off into my boil kettle hopefully leaving behind as much as possible of the unconverted starches that scorch on the bottom of the kettle. Then I'll just do a 30 minute boil. Debating whether I should do a rest at 158F for 15 minutes or so or just skip it and go straight to boil.
Thoughts?
 
Last edited:
beersk said:
Here's the one I'm trying again tonight. This will be pressure fermented at 66.6F at 10PSI and go on the nitro faucet. It looks dark but it won't end up that dark. Should be about perfect, I think.

View attachment 839050

I made one similar back in 2021 that was pretty good. Back then I wasn't on the verge of "quitting" brewing or drinking beer, just was taking a doctor's-orders-2-month-break (which turned out, in my opinion, to not be alcohol related) and this was good but I wasn't committed to it as a long term solution. But now I am. This has 4oz more of caramunich for the needed sweetness for this type of brewing.
My plan is to mash overnight in my fermentation fridge at 40F, brew in a bag. Pull the bag in the morning and let the kettle settle for at least 4 hours. Then run off into my boil kettle hopefully leaving behind as much as possible of the unconverted starches that scorch on the bottom of the kettle. Then I'll just do a 30 minute boil. Debating whether I should do a rest at 158F for 15 minutes or so or just skip it and go straight to boil.
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
I’d definitely do the dextrin rest and a 169F mash out for :15. Probably wouldn’t hurt to rest for :35 ~ :45 @ 158F. Beta would still not be fully denatured there, but without 75% of the starches available for conversion, so it would dry out the beer without creating the ‘normal’ amount of alcohol. I think it would produce a more balanced beer and avoid a cloyingly sweet one, while still achieving the goal of low ABV.

I’ve still not attempted a LEM beer, but am still very interested in the process of brewing low ABV. I’ve been buying quite a few No/Low (is that anything like LoDO?) beers. Some are getting much closer to the desired objective of reduced ABV without totally screwing up the ‘enjoyment’ of beer taste and texture. I’m hoping to learn from others and avoid the pitfalls and unnecessary dumpers.

Please keep us informed of your progress.
 
One way to brew with cold extraction is to plan a "brew weekend" and not a long brew day session.

beersk said:
My plan is to ...
Click to expand...

beersk said:
mash overnight in my fermentation fridge at 40F,
Click to expand...
makes sense. An hour may be short enough, but this keeps the "mash/boil/chill" step shorter.

beersk said:
brew in a bag. Pull the bag in the morning
Click to expand...
I'll assume no dunk sparge and no "squeeze the bag like it owes you money"

beersk said:
and let the kettle settle for at least 4 hours.
Click to expand...
A four hour block of time to do something else.

beersk said:
Then run off into my boil kettle hopefully leaving behind as much as possible of the unconverted starches that scorch on the bottom of the kettle.
Click to expand...
Wort volume may be less (or more) than expected, so include a step to adjust hop rates.

beersk said:
Then I'll just do a 30 minute boil.
Click to expand...
Makes sense.

beersk said:
Debating whether I should do a rest at 158F for 15 minutes or so or just skip it and go straight to boil.
Click to expand...
Others suggested a longer rest. I'll suggest it also.
 
Well, I'm not sure how this will turn out. Pulling the bag in the morning and letting the kettle settle for another 4 hours was good as it left behind anything that would scorch. I had zero issues with that during the boil. I did a 30 minute rest at 158F then brought to a boil.
My OG was much lower than planned at 1.012. The wort looked to be about 16-17SRM, so closer to the predicted SRM than I would've thought. I guess if it finishes at 1.006 it'll be about .75% abv. Maybe it'll be good on nitro. But I'm really not sure about doing this again.
 
beersk said:
Well, I'm not sure how this will turn out. Pulling the bag in the morning and letting the kettle settle for another 4 hours was good as it left behind anything that would scorch. I had zero issues with that during the boil. I did a 30 minute rest at 158F then brought to a boil.
My OG was much lower than planned at 1.012. The wort looked to be about 16-17SRM, so closer to the predicted SRM than I would've thought. I guess if it finishes at 1.006 it'll be about .75% abv. Maybe it'll be good on nitro. But I'm really not sure about doing this again.
Click to expand...
I experienced surprisingly low attenuation with this method. Starting at 1.016, you may finish at 1.010.

I've been considering revisiting with a bit more grain added for an amy rest to hit 1.5-2% ABV.
 
And I think hitting mash temperature with vs without the sludge makes a big difference in OG.
 
Agent said:
And I think hitting mash temperature with vs without the sludge makes a big difference in OG.
Click to expand...
I had this very thought yesterday as well. Those unconverted starches that would scorch convert and add those sugars. I guess we'll see how this turns out. If it's essentially water with a little beer flavor I may chalk it up as an experiment and dump it. I'm OK with that as it didn't take a ton of effort and didn't waste too much grain.
 
I’ve got to think that the low attenuation is due to no beta amylase rest coupled with a short alpha @ 158F. Even if you mashed in at say @ 131F and then raised the mash temperature to 158F for :30 minutes, you would have gotten more beta activity and a slightly higher OG closer to your recipe’s estimated 1.022. Then with a 1.010 FG you would have gotten the desired 1.5 ~2.0% ABV finished beer.
 
Realistically, how much attenuation do we want in these beers? I personally feel like 1.010 is as far down as I'd like to go to retain some semblance of body.

And unless you have some starch source during the saccrification rest, I wouldn't expect to see any increase in gravity. With the grains removed, the soluble starch, sugars, and other dextrins that you start the saccrification rest with is all you have to work with.
 
Agent said:
Realistically, how much attenuation do we want in these beers? I personally feel like 1.010 is as far down as I'd like to go to retain some semblance of body.

And unless you have some starch source during the saccrification rest, I wouldn't expect to see any increase in gravity. With the grains removed, the soluble starch, sugars, and other dextrins that you start the saccrification rest with is all you have to work with.
Click to expand...
Right, which is why the way I did it will probably result in a shite beer and ultimately a dumper. It will literally have no flavor or body.
 
beersk said:
Right, which is why the way I did it will probably result in a shite beer and ultimately a dumper. It will literally have no flavor or body.
Click to expand...
Supposedly the grain flavor is pretty soluble at low temperatures. You won't get much yeast flavor, though. (I suspect a whole packet is a massive overpitch.)

Re body, my limited experience was not bad. I was adding some crystal in the sacch rest, though.

Personally, my results were on par with any "winging it" recipe; drinkable, but not something I'd go out of my way to share. Figuring out a recipe that accounts for the odd process is the hard part, IMO.

Looking forward to hearing your take on the result. Do you have any phosphoric acid for final pH adjustment if it's high?
 
mashdar said:
Supposedly the grain flavor is pretty soluble at low temperatures. You won't get much yeast flavor, though. (I suspect a whole packet is a massive overpitch.)

Re body, my limited experience was not bad. I was adding some crystal in the sacch rest, though.

Personally, my results were on par with any "winging it" recipe; drinkable, but not something I'd go out of my way to share. Figuring out a recipe that accounts for the odd process is the hard part, IMO.

Looking forward to hearing your take on the result. Do you have any phosphoric acid for final pH adjustment if it's high?
Click to expand...
I did end up putting in half a mL of phosphoric near the end of the boil. Maybe it wasn't enough, but I have no way of measuring the pH of the finished beer, so I'll be going by my tastebuds on that.
 
I've been experimenting with low ABV for the past year or so. I've been using the high mash temp approach since that works better for my set-up, but some of the process and recipe changes I've made may apply here too. I've yet to get to a good 0.5% ABV brew, but I recently brewed a 0.9% ABV IPA that I'm actually happy to offer to friends and family (I would have been pretty embarrassed to share the early iterations)

1. I've started adding ~1/3lb of lactose to each 5 gallon brew. This ads some of the residual sweetness and body that usually comes from ethanol. It really helps with the overall balance of the beer

2. I agree with the earlier point about pH. I started to mash at 5.0 and sparge at 4.2 and it made a noticeable improvement to the beer

3. Allow the fermenter to off gas. I had previously been fermenting in a sealed keg since the (SG-FG) for a 0.5% beer is about where I usually seal up my fermenter anyway for natural carbonation. However, by not letting the fermentation gases escape I found that I got a vegetal note that took 1 month+ to age out. Letting the gas escape and boosting the SG so that I get a bit more fermentation activity took care of that.

4. My last IPA used a thiolized yeast (Cosmic Punch) which really upped the hop expression despite a very low hop charge to hit 11 IBU.
 
Interesting your use of lactose, it has a noticeable impact on the beer.
I used monk fruit in a low calorie IPA and it really did add back sweetness without gravity.
 
DuncB said:
Interesting your use of lactose, it has a noticeable impact on the beer.
I used monk fruit in a low calorie IPA and it really did add back sweetness without gravity.
Click to expand...
One third of a pound seems like an awfully large amount of lactose. Could be disastrous if you offered a sample to someone who’s lactose intolerant. Monk fruit is interesting. Used it once in a Brut IPA to back sweeten. It worked, but the texture and ‘sweetness’ of the beer seemed thin and artificial. One & done.
 
Brooothru said:
One third of a pound seems like an awfully large amount of lactose. Could be disastrous if you offered a sample to someone who’s lactose intolerant. Monk fruit is interesting. Used it once in a Brut IPA to back sweeten. It worked, but the texture and ‘sweetness’ of the beer seemed thin and artificial. One & done.
Click to expand...
Really? Many milk stouts use 1/2 to 1lb per 5 gallons.
 
Brooothru said:
One third of a pound seems like an awfully large amount of lactose. Could be disastrous if you offered a sample to someone who’s lactose intolerant. Monk fruit is interesting. Used it once in a Brut IPA to back sweeten. It worked, but the texture and ‘sweetness’ of the beer seemed thin and artificial. One & done.
Click to expand...
I've got about a kg of lactose in the cupboard but can't see myself using it in a beer. Might have to invert it and use it as an experimental adjunct.
Trouble is Brut IPA is meant to be a bone dry style, expecting the monk fruit extract to add body as well as sweeten in that style is asking a lot.
Mine was in a clone of weldwerks fitbits hazy IPA. Seemed okay.
 
DuncB said:
I've got about a kg of lactose in the cupboard but can't see myself using it in a beer. Might have to invert it and use it as an experimental adjunct.
Trouble is Brut IPA is meant to be a bone dry style, expecting the monk fruit extract to add body as well as sweeten in that style is asking a lot.
Mine was in a clone of weldwerks fitbits hazy IPA. Seemed okay.
Click to expand...
It’s been a couple years since I brewed the Brut, and it was ‘brutally’ dry, finishing at FG 0.998. I didn’t care much for it and thought I’d try to improve taste and drinkability by back sweetening with Monk Fruit. Semi-successful, but still didn’t like the finished beer much.

The Monk Fruit is still in a Vittle Vault with some other random brewing ingredient leftovers. Might find some use one day.
 
beersk said:
Here's the one I'm trying again tonight. This will be pressure fermented at 66.6F at 10PSI and go on the nitro faucet. It looks dark but it won't end up that dark. Should be about perfect, I think.

View attachment 839050

I made one similar back in 2021 that was pretty good. Back then I wasn't on the verge of "quitting" brewing or drinking beer, just was taking a doctor's-orders-2-month-break (which turned out, in my opinion, to not be alcohol related) and this was good but I wasn't committed to it as a long term solution. But now I am. This has 4oz more of caramunich for the needed sweetness for this type of brewing.
My plan is to mash overnight in my fermentation fridge at 40F, brew in a bag. Pull the bag in the morning and let the kettle settle for at least 4 hours. Then run off into my boil kettle hopefully leaving behind as much as possible of the unconverted starches that scorch on the bottom of the kettle. Then I'll just do a 30 minute boil. Debating whether I should do a rest at 158F for 15 minutes or so or just skip it and go straight to boil.
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Alright, well this turned out like crap. 1.012 OG and 1.006 FG. Really just not liking the flavor. It's not bitter or anything, just has that flavor common with this method of brewing. You know the way it smells when you're mixing the grains with the cold water? It's like that. No sir, I don't like it!
 
And Zymurgy, Mar 2024, has a low/no alcohol theme with a couple of good articles on low (4% or less) ABV beers (mash really high, Maltotriose-negative yeast strains, food safety considerations).
 

Similar threads

J
Non-alcoholic homebrew - buzzed feeling?
Replies
7
Views
631
mashdar
mashdar
Brooothru
Low Enzyme/Low ABV Brewing + Party Gyle
Replies
23
Views
1K
BrewnWKopperKat
BrewnWKopperKat
T
Sparge for non-enzymatic mashing (cold mashing)?
Replies
14
Views
1K
TravisStoon
T
aeviaanah
Feedback on non-alcoholic recipe and process
Replies
13
Views
794
pigroaster
pigroaster
D
lowering alcohol
Replies
5
Views
670
day_trippr
day_trippr
SSBrew 300

Latest posts

Back
Top