Looking to up the fruitiness in an ESB

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I've got a fairly straightforward ESB-like recipe with Maris Otter, some crystal, some victory, and a pinch of chocolate. I've been using East Kent Goldings and Wyeast 1968 London ESB. Generally speaking it's a good beer but I'm looking to up the fruitiness in it a little bit (it's OK by me if it's no longer an ESB). Would love to get notes of perhaps cherries or raspberries but without actually adding puree.

Looking over the English hops, I'm not seeing much to take me that direction. I am considering something completely different, for example simcoe is a possibility but I haven't brewed with it before and get conflicting info (i.e. one site says it's berry flavored and another doesn't even mention it). I need to find a simcoe heavy beer to check out.

I could also up the fermentation temp from ~ 68 to maybe 70 or higher, but not sure I will get the flavors I want. Considering the 1469 Yorkshire, but it's eluded me so far for being in stock.

Finally my question, thanks if you made it this far - Are there any hops or yeasts that would give me a cherry / raspberry like note?

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

So I'm understanding correctly, you've brewed an ESB using 1968 and want more fruity esters?

From the Wyeast site "Profile: A very good cask conditioned ale strain, this extremely flocculent yeast produces distinctly malty beers. Attenuation levels are typically less than most other yeast strains which results in a slightly sweeter finish. Ales produced with this strain tend to be fruity, increasingly so with higher fermentation temperatures of 70-74 °F (21-23 °C). A thorough diacetyl rest is recommended after fermentation is complete. Bright beers are easily achieved within days without any filtration."

https://wyeastlab.com/yeast-strain/london-esb-ale
Adding cherry/raspberry (a POWERFUL flavor) to an ESB is no longer an ESB.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Bramling Cross for a dry hop? Blackcurrant, etc.

WY1968 and Imperial A09 are similar, but in my short run of recent batches A09 does give a bit more fruitiness.

 

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So I'm understanding correctly, you've brewed an ESB using 1968 and want more fruity esters?

Adding cherry/raspberry (a POWERFUL flavor) to an ESB is no longer an ESB.

Correct, looking for a little more fruitiness. But not going so far as to adding puree or anything. Maybe I just need to take the fermentation temp even higher. I've read the Wyeast page but thanks guess I didn't catch going that high before. Would be an easy change.

And yes, as acknowledged, it's OK by me if it's no longer an ESB. I'm not entering competitions, just trying to tweak (not overhaul) a recipe that started off as a basic ESB.

Brambling Cross for a dry hop? Blackcurrant, etc.

WY1968 and Imperial A09 are similar, but in my short run of recent batches A09 does give a bit more fruitiness.

Thanks, interesting suggestions! I've always used Wyeast but may branch out. Bramling cross sounds really interesting, will have to look for it. My normal shop Ritebrew doesn't seem to carry them and my backup local Northern Brewer doesn't either. Will still keep this one in mind, I'm sure I can get them somewhere.

I might should mention that if I add another hop I'd plan to do it 50/50 or some other similar ratio w/ the EKG, and probably just late like -10 minutes or flame-out.

 

[DBhomebrew]

To be honest, I haven't tried the Bramling Cross. Just recalled the description as I was reading up on the more classic UK hops. Tucked it into memory for one of these days.

With the A09 Pub, it's not a completely different or new flavor over the 1968. Just fuller, like a chord vs a single note. Fuller, ha!

 

[DBhomebrew]

Also in the one of these days category, and I'm sure not the direction you want to go on this...

I've got plans to do a big old ale or barleywine with Brett. One of the Brett strains is typically marketed as having a pie cherry flavor.

 

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Also in the one of these days category, and I'm sure not the direction you want to go on this...

I've got plans to do a big old ale or barleywine with Brett. One of the Brett strains is typically marketed as having a pie cherry flavor.

Oh, interesting. That may have to be a different beer altogether. Then again, maybe not. I've sort of resigned myself to buying sours until I get my other recipe types a little more practiced and dialed in.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

From BeerSmith "Bramling Cross

Developed in 1927 from commercial Goldings and wild hop variety. Used for: ESB, Bitters, Pale Ale Aroma: Mild, fruity, currant aroma. Substitutes: East Kent Goldings, Progress, Whitbred" OK, I understand about the "know it's not an ESB". I didn't want to recommend something out-of-line.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Too bad we are not closer to each other. I have a homemade Fuller's ESB in bottles.

 

[ejf063]

And yes, as acknowledged, it's OK by me if it's no longer an ESB. I'm not entering competitions, just trying to tweak (not overhaul) a recipe that started off as a basic ESB.

since you're not doing fruit, sounds to me that you just wanna add some additional flavor via hops. I like ESB's and though it is not 'normal' to over hop an ESB, it is your beer and we all tend to make what we like.
Toss some centennial and/or citra up-in-there at the end of the boil, or as a hop stand. maybe 2.5 ounces to be safe, up to 7 or more if you're looking for like a red IPA, (presumption of a 5 gallon batch). Nothing wrong with throwing hops in and experimenting with different hops to tweek up a recipe.
Also, I love Ritebrew. The price of everything they sell are very competitive. They do tend to run out of hops though.

 

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Toss some centennial and/or citra up-in-there at the end of the boil, or as a hop stand. maybe 2.5 ounces to be safe, up to 7 or more if you're looking for like a red IPA, (presumption of a 5 gallon batch). Nothing wrong with throwing hops in and experimenting with different hops to tweek up a recipe.

I was thinking more like an ounce of hops added to the existing EKG, maybe .5 oz at -10 minutes and the remaining .5oz at flame out or whirlpool. I have a Pale Ale recipe I keep working on where I favor cascade, and I love it. Might be a good one here as well but if I try it, it'd be a much lower amount.

I think next time I order ingredients (probably for an RIS to drink this winter), I'll order extra hops and make some teas with them.

 

[fragged]

I can't really think of anything that adds berry flavor like cherry or raspberry - even those added as purees don't quite add that. Both end up tart, carrying a faint hint of the actual berry.

If you want some more fruit, then playing with the yeast side will get you closer than anything else I think. Trying different strains, higher in the temperature range, Belgians come to mind. I have some Omega Lutra sitting here waiting to try on something, reviews I've seen have said it gets berry-fruity when fermented at 95 degrees. Those reviews were complaining about it as they wanted pseudo-lager, but I saw it as an opportunity. That, and a 3 day fermentation is pretty appealing. Still thinking about recipes though, post your ESB and maybe I'll just make that and report back.

Sacrilege, but maybe just try some of the flavor concentrates? The nice part about those is you can just test the recipe you have now with different combinations right in your glass.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I've used Bramling Cross in a strong bitter. It certainly gives dark berry notes, but maybe not as heavy as it sounds like you want it. I mixed about 60/40 BC/Fuggle for aroma and only BC for flavor I guess you could do the same but try BC only in the aroma addition.

 

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I think the yeast aspect is a good one, have been thinking about a Belgian yeast as well. I normally avoid them, as I dislike tripels and quads but of course that's not all there is, the Chimay red is pretty tasty.

The current recipe is:
* 8.5 lbs Maris Otter
* 0.5 lbs Victory
* 0.5 lbs Caramel 40
* 0.25 lbs Caramel 80
* 0.125 lbs Chocolate
2 oz. EKG at 60 min - approx 30 IBU
1.5 oz. EKG at 10 min - approx 5-10 IBU
Remaining 0.5 oz EKG at flameout which sits about 5 minutes before any significant chilling begins
Wyeast 1968 ESB at 68F

It's based on an ESB, and I'm happy with it in general.

I think I have a few levers to pull and things to try:

1) Up the 1068 fermentation temp from 68 to perhaps 72
2) Try a Belgian yeast, strain TBD
3) Sub some late EKG with another hop, TBD, make some teas first.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Have you tried invert sugars? I have made invert #3 from light muscovado that has some notes of red apple shining through the caramel, and that flavour carries through a bit in the finished beer. I can only imagine #2 retains that flavour even more.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Going with a Belgian yeast may not be too far out of the box. I was reading up on Notty and came across northern brewer suggesting a Notty/T-58 co-pitch to bring some character to the rather bland Notty. I believe there are some family connections between some Belgian and northern UK strains.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Have you tried invert sugars? I have made invert #3 from light muscovado that has some notes of red apple shining through the caramel, and that flavour carries through a bit in the finished beer. I can only imagine #2 retains that flavour even more.

It's amazing what flavors can appear in invert. Fun stuff.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

It's amazing what flavors can appear in invert. Fun stuff.

Yeah it opened up a whole new level for me in brewing british styles. My personal favorite is demerara #3, gives a little raisin like caramel flavor.

 

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Have you tried invert sugars? I have made invert #3 from light muscovado that has some notes of red apple shining through the caramel, and that flavour carries through a bit in the finished beer. I can only imagine #2 retains that flavour even more.

I have not! I've read about them here and followed a thread but did not catch getting fruitiness from them. OK, I have a 4th thing to check out now!