Looking to rebound on my 2nd AG batch

[Jorts]

About to brew my second all grain batch. This time I’m going to try a hefeweizen. The recipe is one I found here on HBT:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f70/citra-hefeweizen-473178/

I punched in some numbers on the brew365 mash and sparge water calculator. It says to use 9 total gallons of water, 3.5 gallons mash water, and then 5.5 gallons of sparge water. I was planning on doing a batch sparge. Can I just do equal 4.5 gallon volumes of mash and sparge water? Also, what temperature should the sparge water be when I add it to the mash? Should at be the same as the strike temperature? Thanks a lot in advance!

 

[skiingimpy]

You want the sparge water to be at 168. It's as high as you can get without extracting tannins (tannin's are bad, you don't want those). The higher the temperature, the better the sugar extraction (without getting above 168, cuz the tannins).

You could probably do 4.5 and 4.5, but you need to make sure the strike water is the correct temperature. If you're using 4.5 gallons instead of 3.5, the temperature of the strike water will be different. To be honest I'm not at all familiar with brew365, but brewsmith will do the calculations for temp and volume for you. Also, the grain will absorb water that won't come out, so you won't get the same amount of wort from each batch. You would theoretically get some amount of wort from the first runnings and exactly 4.5 gallons from the 'sparge'.

 

[Jorts]

You want the sparge water to be at 168. It's as high as you can get without extracting tannins (tannin's are bad, you don't want those). The higher the temperature, the better the sugar extraction (without getting above 168, cuz the tannins).

You could probably do 4.5 and 4.5, but you need to make sure the strike water is the correct temperature. If you're using 4.5 gallons instead of 3.5, the temperature of the strike water will be different. To be honest I'm not at all familiar with brew365, but brewsmith will do the calculations for temp and volume for you. Also, the grain will absorb water that won't come out, so you won't get the same amount of wort from each batch. You would theoretically get some amount of wort from the first runnings and exactly 4.5 gallons from the 'sparge'.

So basically always sparge with 168 F water and use brew smith for volume specification?

 

[RM-MN]

You want the sparge water to be at 168. It's as high as you can get without extracting tannins (tannin's are bad, you don't want those). The higher the temperature, the better the sugar extraction (without getting above 168, cuz the tannins).

You could probably do 4.5 and 4.5, but you need to make sure the strike water is the correct temperature. If you're using 4.5 gallons instead of 3.5, the temperature of the strike water will be different. To be honest I'm not at all familiar with brew365, but brewsmith will do the calculations for temp and volume for you. Also, the grain will absorb water that won't come out, so you won't get the same amount of wort from each batch. You would theoretically get some amount of wort from the first runnings and exactly 4.5 gallons from the 'sparge'.

You can boil the mash without extracting tannins provided your mash pH is correct. That's how a decoction mash is done, part of the mash is boiled and then returned to the mash tun to raise the temperature to the next step. Most of the time the mash pH will be plenty low but with some water and a light color grain bill this can be a problem. The mash pH would have to be over 6.0 to extract tannins.

 

[azscoob]

Beers turn out differently depending on the mash ratio, 1:1 will be different than say 1.33:1, or 1.5:1 it's subtle but it is detectable.

That said I follow my recipes exactly with one change, I split the batch sparge into two seperate sparges, I stir with each sparge and let it sit for 10-15 minutes to help pull the sugars out of the grain, I'm rock solid 87% efficiency for years now doing it that way.

And I mash out with my grain absorption volume brought to boiling, then all sparges are at 170

 

[RM-MN]

The typical numbers for mashing is 1.2 to 1.5 quarts of water per pound of grain. This is usually sufficient to make a mash thin enough to stir without worrying about mash pH. By keeping the pH correct, I mashed with a 4 quarts per pound of grain and it worked out just fine. The total amount of water in that recipe seems high to me. I know that some will be absorbed in the grain and some will be boiled away but it still seems like a lot.

The way I would attack this is to make an assumption that I want 5.25 gallons of wort into my fermenter. To that I would add the amount I expect to boil off in an hour long boil. For me that is less than a gallon but some boil off a lot more. Lets assume that you boil off 1.25 gallons. That means that you need 6.5 gallons in the boil pot. A bit more won't hurt but that is a starting point.

Now since I know that the mash ratio isn't real important, I mash with 1.5 quarts per pound or roughly 16 quarts (4 gallons). At the end of the mash I drain the tun and note how much wort I have collected. Then I calculate how much more I need to get my preboil amount (lets guess 7 gallons for this) and add just that amount. Since the grain is already wet, absorption isn't a factor and I should be able to collect exactly how much I put in.

 

[chickypad]

Agree with all the above, use the ratios you like best and that are the most reproducible/efficient for you - as long as you are controlling your mash pH as RM mentioned. The only thing I would add is that if batch sparging the temp of the water actually isn't that important. Kai Troester has posted experiments batch sparging with room temp water and it makes minimal difference. As someone who frequently forgets to start heating the sparge water on time I can say my own experience with different temps supports this.

 

[Jorts]

Thanks for the help guys. This information really answered all my questions!

 

[Jorts]

Brewed this batch today. Everything went well for the most part. Only problem is my post boil gravity was 1.045 and target was supposed to be 1.050. I mashed for 60 min just a degree or two below the target mash temp with ~4 gal water and did 2 batch sparges with 170 F water until I reached my target pre boil wort volume. The boil and yeast pitching went according to plan. I'll let you guys know how it turns out.

 

[RM-MN]

Brewed this batch today. Everything went well for the most part. Only problem is my post boil gravity was 1.045 and target was supposed to be 1.050. I mashed for 60 min just a degree or two below the target mash temp with ~4 gal water and did 2 batch sparges with 170 F water until I reached my target pre boil wort volume. The boil and yeast pitching went according to plan. I'll let you guys know how it turns out.

The lower OG isn't your fault. Most LHBS crush the grains a bit too coarse. This avoids having upset customers from having a stuck sparge but it lowers the efficiency. That lower efficiency can be overcome by adding more grain and guess what? The LHBS will be happy to sell you more grain. If you want to avoid this lower efficiency you can ask for a double crush or you can have full control by getting your own mill. Having a mill of your own allows you to buy grains in bulk which usually saves money.