London Ale III - Wyeast 1318 - Consistent over-attenuation?

[cpham574]

Hey guys, I'm a little stumped and was hoping someone could help me out. Let me start by saying I brewed Braufessor's blonde with 1318 and harvested the yeast. After racking, I stirred up the slurry and transferred into 6 different sanitized pint sized mason jars. About 2oz of compact yeast in each jar and sitting on top of that is some of the blonde. Unfortunately, I don't have my notes for the blonde batch since my laptop crashed and BS did not save my notes, but I do believe I got high attenuation with that batch too.

So with the harvested yeast, I have brewed 3 NE IPA's. All with higher attenuation than expected. No additional sugars added to any batch except the lactose in b3

Batch 1: OG = 1.060 | FG = 1.012 | 79.1% attenuation | Mash 151*F

Batch 2: OG = 1.068 | FG = 1.014 | 78.3% attenuation | Mash 152*F

Batch 3: OG = 1.073 | FG = 1.012 | 82.6% attenuation | Mash at 156*F - also added 3oz lactose to this batch

With each batch I took a mason jar of my yeast, poured off the beer to taste and smell to make sure it was okay. Then make a 2 liter starter with 200g DME. Cold crash, decant and taste, then pitch yeast. Ferment at 68* for the first 3 days then low-mid 70's until day 10 then rack to keg.

However, with my last batch I ended up with a lower than expected FG especially since I mashed higher. On day 9, I took a gravity and it was 1.014. The next morning, I saw bubbling in my airlock. Prior to this, there wasn't any activity in the airlock for days. Took gravity again and it was 1.012. My initial 1.014 reading may have been inaccurate, though. As I remember seeing some bubbles in solution. Not quite sure what kicked off some fermentation? Could it have been the suckback of a little star san from the airlock when I took the sample from the fermenter's spigot?

Anyway, has anyone else consistently reached attenuation around 80% with this yeast? It's frustrating because I've been trying to end my beer in the 1.015-1.018 range but it keeps going lower!!

 

[dmtaylor]

This yeast has averaged about 75-76% attenuation for me. Yours does seem just a little high. When's the last time you calibrated your hydrometer and your mash thermometer?

 

[cpham574]

I just tested my hydrometer in distilled water and it was 1.00. I have a Grainfather so I go by the temperature on there. I'm thinking next time I should take the top plate off about 15 mins or so into the mash and stick my thermapen in the grain bed to see what the temperature is.

Could overpitching cause this high of attenuation?

 

[dmtaylor]

Could overpitching cause this high of attenuation?

No, definitely not.

How long do you mash? 60 minutes? 90? In either case, maybe try 45 minutes, if Grainfather will allow it. Longer mash breaks down sugars, maybe more than you want. I only ever mash 45 minutes, been doing this for about 11 years.

 

[cpham574]

No, definitely not.

How long do you mash? 60 minutes? 90? In either case, maybe try 45 minutes, if Grainfather will allow it. Longer mash breaks down sugars, maybe more than you want. I only ever mash 45 minutes, been doing this for about 11 years.

Hmmm maybe that’s it. I mash for a total of 90 mins. After 45 minutes I stir the grain bed and then go for another 45 mins

 

[dmtaylor]

Yeah.... don't do that. No need to stir midway. Just 45 minutes, then done.

 

[cpham574]

Yeah.... don't do that. No need to stir midway. Just 45 minutes, then done.

I’ll try that on my next batch. Thanks! Only reason I went to a 90 min mash and stir halfway was to see if I can increase efficiency. It has helped, but it may also be from a finer crush. Last batch I milled at .036” and surprisingly the sparge went pretty fast.

 

[dmtaylor]

Your efficiency might fall 3-5 points, but your FG will be where you want it.

 

[cpham574]

Your efficiency might fall 3-5 points, but your FG will be where you want it.

Thanks! I’ll try it next batch which will probably be in November.

Any idea what could’ve kicked the fermentation off when I took a gravity sample on day 9? No bubbling for days prior to that and then fermentation started again. Bubbling a lot on day 10 and for some reason the krausen never fell on this batch

 

[dmtaylor]

Thanks! I’ll try it next batch which will probably be in November.

Any idea what could’ve kicked the fermentation off when I took a gravity sample on day 9? No bubbling for days prior to that and then fermentation started again. Bubbling a lot on day 10 and for some reason the krausen never fell on this batch

With some of the English and Belgian yeasts especially, sometimes a simple act of disturbing the yeast can wake them up and get them moving again, otherwise they occasionally tend to be sluggish and lead to stuck fermentations. It is for this reason that many people will recommend swirling the fermenter once or twice a day to keep the yeast from all settling out and quitting too fast. I haven't used 1318 a lot but it's potentially one of these yeasts that needs a good kick in the butt once in a while to keep it awake and working for you. So just by taking your hydro reading or whatever, if it moved the yeast much at all, it might have reactivated just from that. It happens.

 

[Jaybird]

I use that yeast almost exclusively for my NEIPA's and never get attenuation like that. I sit about 76% but I do mash a couple deg higher than you. 156* would be low for me for my NEIPA I shoot for 158* and am normally "Johnny on the spot"

Cheers
Jay

 

[cpham574]

I use that yeast almost exclusively for my NEIPA's and never get attenuation like that. I sit about 76% but I do mash a couple deg higher than you. 156* would be low for me for my NEIPA I shoot for 158* and am normally "Johnny on the spot"

Cheers
Jay

I can try 158* for my next batch too. How long do you mash for? Also how long do you primary? I found 10 days to be perfect for my first two batches but the 3rd batch still had a thick krausen on day 10. It just never fell. Racked it to keg anyway

 

[Jaybird]

I can try 158* for my next batch too. How long do you mash for? Also how long do you primary? I found 10 days to be perfect for my first two batches but the 3rd batch still had a thick krausen on day 10. It just never fell. Racked it to keg anyway

Well I mash for 60 min. I ferment for about 3-5 days add my first round of dry hops wait a couple days 2nd round of dry hops wait a few days cold crash and drop the hops out of the fermenter and keg it. I "have" taken my NEIPA from grain to glass in 7 days. But its normally about 10 as well.

Cheers
Jay

 

[cpham574]

Well I mash for 60 min. I ferment for about 3-5 days add my first round of dry hops wait a couple days 2nd round of dry hops wait a few days cold crash and drop the hops out of the fermenter and keg it. I "have" taken my NEIPA from grain to glass in 7 days. But its normally about 10 as well.

Cheers
Jay

Welp...I got over-attenuation again!! Mashed at 158* for 60 mins and got 83% attenuation. Kept the fermenter at room temp for the first 12 hours and then into a waterbath for 3 days then room temp. Not only did I get 80%+ again, for some reason I got a ton of sulfur coming from this batch

 

[couchsending]

Something sounds fishy... if anything I struggle to get attenuation with 1318. Goood friends with a great professional brewer who’s won lots of GABF medals and has used 1318 since 1995 I believe. He said in order to get 80% he has to mash at 149 and use sugar. He also moved on from Wyeast to BSI. Too many issue with the pitches he was getting from them.

Try Imperial Juice to see if you get the same issue. It’s the same strain.

 

[dmtaylor]

When mashing hot, enzymes will work faster. Try mashing for just 20 minutes, that should help a lot. Yes, I'm serious. Just 20 minutes.

Not sure why you would get more sulfur on this batch. Might be a fluke.

 

[ba-brewer]

Did two beers with 1318 recently, NEIPA mashed at 150F attenuated to 80%, a bitters mashed at 152F attenuated to 76%. I split the starter so they both came from the same yeast packet. I have another batch fermenting from yeast from the bitters and it looks to be heading toward about 75% Attenuation. I did some gentle swirling to get the krausen to remix and keep working.

It is not uncommon for yeast to out perform the published specs, probably don't have to worry unless there is off-flavors present.

 

[kh54s10]

I think I have read that second generation yeast will often attenuate further than first generation? Any truth to this? It could be the cause. Try a fresh package.

 

[cpham574]

I think I have read that second generation yeast will often attenuate further than first generation? Any truth to this? It could be the cause. Try a fresh package.

After reading around a bit it seems like some people are getting 80% too. I will definitely try a fresh package the next time I decide to use this yeast.