LHBS blessing and curse

[brewhaha1964]

My LHBS owner is a nice guy and I have learned a great deal from him, but I wanted to start all-grain brewing and I didn't want to go bankrupt doing it. I told him I bought a Aluminium Pot ( Oh ! you don't want to do that,you got Stainless Steel). I was going to use a old cooler and SSbraid hose( Oh God don't do that, It will float up on you and only last 3 brews. You need a round igloo with a brass manifold.) Was going to buy floating therm. ( That's not what you need, use this calibriting one.)He told me go ahead and try to that way if you want .Come back and let me know when I wanted to start brew the right way. He's been real nice getting me started, but there's another brew store 30 min down the road. I've been think of drive extra just so I don't have to hear grief about my sub par system everytime I go to buy stuff.

 

[bmason1623]

don't let his comments bother you. I'm sure he means well but he's not putting your best interests first. Do it your way and have fun.

 

[likwidbliss]

He is a salesman.

I have a 48 qt cooler with a braided stainless tube manifold, an aluminum pot, a stainless pot and 2 enamel canners. I have used all three. I prefer the stainless, because my wife doesn't get made when it gets blackened on the bottom. It don't know how braided stainless hose floats, but you are the brewer, you use what you want. I just suggest that if you are going to use PVC don't use any glue.

I don't go to my LHBS for that reason, advice is one thing, but telling you what not to do plain pisses me off.

I started by using my old turkey fryer and began using the other materials when I went all grain. My beer is fine and people that drink like it a lot.

Good luck and keep brewing.

 

[bmsteele]

My SS braid floats up ALL the time... Wait, no it doesn't. It's held down by 15 pounds of grain.

What shops are you talking about?

 

[jfr1111]

Some of the things my LHBS told me when I first started brewing, in the span of two visits :
a) You can start your siphon with your mouth, the alcohol will sterilize it
b) Rack to secondary as soon as the krausen starts to drop to avoid autolysis
c) All grain brews are impossible to achieve at the homebrewer level unless you spend upwards of 600$
d) Most beer will be carbed by the 5-6 days mark
e) You can't prime with table sugar, you need corn sugar

You got to let it go. Most LHBS are nice, but they either catter to the wine crowd or they don't brew at all and just "man the ship". We have a brewing supply store in my little village and when I asked if they had any US-05, they said yes and got me a pack of Munton Gold saying it was made in the US. It's like all the pencil necks fitness trainers at froo-froo gyms: they spread and believe a lot of myths.

On that note, I will give the guy a bottle of my Mild this week wich I brewed using a 5$ bag and a 60$ turkey fryer.

 

[brewhaha1964]

Like I said he's a real nice guy and means well, so I won't name the shop. I would love to have all the stuff he talks about, just have to work at it a piece at a time. In the meantime, I don't need to be reminded that to stuff I'm using is less that perfect. I just want to make good beer.

 

[bmsteele]

Like I said he's a real nice guy and means well, so I won't name the shop...

Awwww where's the fun in that

 

[snowveil]

Like I said he's a real nice guy and means well, so I won't name the shop. I would love to have all the stuff he talks about, just have to work at it a piece at a time. In the meantime, I don't need to be reminded that to stuff I'm using is less that perfect. I just want to make good beer.

Do it your way. I'm fortunate that the local homebrew shop (Lancaster Homebrew) is full of knowledgeable and really nice guys. I never get any grief when I shop there, just "you brewing this weekend?" and a nice conversation. Mark is also quick to help out if I've got any questions.


As for your situation, brew with what you've got. I'm using a 48qt cooler, stainless braid, and aluminum pot just like you are. Would I like some blingmann stuff? sure! But my way works great and I didn't need to drop a ton of coin to step up to AG.

It's a shame that the salesman feels the need to knock your technique. Not everyone can afford an expensive set up. This is a pretty niche hobby we've got here, and if the LHBS wants to risk alienating their customers to sell more equipment...fine. I know I wouldn't.

 

[gtpro]

He'd probably hate to hear about my brew in a bag setup, its the most basic AG setup that has probably ever existed, I mash in my aluminum pot for cripes sake, but hey it makes beer. You can go with as much or as little as you want.

 

[Strangebird]

I'd say make the drive and see how the other one is. I had a similar experience. The place 5 minutes from me immediately told me free stuff (i.e. glass carboys, etc) I got off freecycle wouldn't be acceptable for my first brew. Wanted me to buy stuff from them to replace them. I drive about 30-40 minutes to another place and they were great. Told me pros and cons. Recommended I try brewing with what I had and then see if I even like the hobby. They told me about a few other things I might eventually want to pick up to make life easier, but still also suggested not investing the $ until I had an idea of what my own process would be. Needless to say, I only use the close place for "emergencies" when I need something on short notice. The other place gets my business due to their customer service.

 

[shamrockdoc]

He is a salesman.

This is all you need to focus on. My LHBS is super convenient t the house but rape you on prices! RAPE! So I drive 30 min to another one and I save a ton of money plus they have smackpacks........Smackpacks! Brew with the kit you have then shove it in his face when your beer gets you drunk!

 

[david_42]

Live with it. There is no Ultimate Brewing System, except the brewer. Some people get great results with minimal equipment and I've had trash from professionals with half-million dollar systems.

 

[Revvy]

You'll find that not every proprieter or LHBS employee reads every forum or book or listens to every podcast, so the last book or info they may have learned may be in Papazian from 30 years ago. They also may only brew kits. Or simply JUST be of the "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" mentality.

And not every person, especially one of those "you can't teach an old dog" types aren't going to be up on the latest ideas.

Remember to a lot of LHBS'er or employees, it is only a job..not an obsession...so they are not always as necessarily passionate, or zealous learning new things, or trying new techniques, like we are....SOme even though they have been in the business forever, may never had progressed in the hobby beyond extract kits...some may rarely brew at all.

So often it is not surprising that we know more or are at least in touch with more info that someone who does it for a living....

This is an ever evolving hobby...Places like this is where you find the most state of the art information/wisdom about brewing, because of the sheer number of us trying new things, hearing new things, and even breaking new ground and contributing to the body of info on the hobby...Look at some of that inventions that came out of here, and then ended up later in BYO articles by our members...

It is podcasts and forums like this where you will find a lot more state of the art, or current views, and even scientific information...I mean if Jamil, John Palmer or Papazian even farts on a podcast, one of us beergeeks are going to start a thread on it within 10 minutes.

I tell folks to stick to their guns, just buy what you need and if they seem oldschool or closeminded, just don't even bother. You can find all the most recent discourse, data, tips, tricks, theories, ad nauseum online, in BYO/Zymughy and on podcasts, with very little effort.

Like David said, there rarely is an "ideal" way to do ANYTHING, just what works for us. So if an owner is closed minded or oppinionated and thinks his way is the only way, just nod and smile, and go possibly make better beer than him.

 

[brewhaha1964]

So if an owner is closed minded or oppinionated and thinks his way is the only way, just nod and smile, and go possibly make better beer than him.

I now have a goal !! Seriously, I don't mean to dis the guy too much. He was really helpfull in the beginning. Maybe owning a brew store give you a feeling of expertise. I think maybe he's a little locked in to old school thinking and myths.

 

[Strangebird]

Or your goal could be to learn the crap out of brewing and then open up a competing store nearby with better customer service.

 

[rweird]

+1 for Lancaster Homebrew. Mark is a good guy. I changed my job and it's out of my way now so I do most of my shopping at mr steves.

 

[ale_mongrel]

I had what I thought would be a similar occurance when I visited my LHBS when I went in intruduced myself and started shooting the breeze with the guy, nice enough, but seemed pre occupied a bit and when I told him I got my brew equip used on craigslist, he whipped around like I had said "This is a robbery..." I explained everything looked fine and I had plans of sanitizing the crap out em (...literally). He asked to see my stuff, I said I dont carry the suff on me but ummm ok...considering not going back at all figuring he would just tell me that it was un suitable to use for brewing, that he had what I needed to get started and that he might even offer me a "deal" because I might have gotten taken once..... I said what the hell and threw my stuff in the car, and after work the next day I rolled in just to see what he would say, if I didnt like it I could always tell him to (ahem) "Go fly a kite" I walk in, he looks it over then asks "How much did you pay again?" I told him... and to my surprise he says " Huh... they didnt use it much you got a hell of a deal.... I would use that myself.....Save your money, when this brew is done and you come back buy another kit with it..." and he chuckeld I was shocked, I happily bought some sanitizer and left. I thought I was gonna get the hard sell but, he did say " I didnt wanna make an extra trip for ya, but I didnt want to see you ruin your first bach either"

 

[gratefuldisc]

Curious which shop this is. I highly recommend the shop on Pitkin Rd in EH but if you had a good experience somewhere else, awesome!

I had what I thought would be a similar occurance when I visited my LHBS when I went in intruduced myself and started shooting the breeze with the guy, nice enough, but seemed pre occupied a bit and when I told him I got my brew equip used on craigslist, he whipped around like I had said "This is a robbery..." I explained everything looked fine and I had plans of sanitizing the crap out em (...literally). He asked to see my stuff, I said I dont carry the suff on me but ummm ok...considering not going back at all figuring he would just tell me that it was un suitable to use for brewing, that he had what I needed to get started and that he might even offer me a "deal" because I might have gotten taken once..... I said what the hell and threw my stuff in the car, and after work the next day I rolled in just to see what he would say, if I didnt like it I could always tell him to (ahem) "Go fly a kite" I walk in, he looks it over then asks "How much did you pay again?" I told him... and to my surprise he says " Huh... they didnt use it much you got a hell of a deal.... I would use that myself.....Save your money, when this brew is done and you come back buy another kit with it..." and he chuckeld I was shocked, I happily bought some sanitizer and left. I thought I was gonna get the hard sell but, he did say " I didnt wanna make an extra trip for ya, but I didnt want to see you ruin your first bach either"

 

[akthor]

I have the exact opposite our only LHBS was the corner of a Natural Foods store. Which means NO ONE to help if you have questions about anything to do with brewing and they always are out of stock on stuff or missing crucial things like, brew buckets, grain socks, dextrose, always at least one of the common grains, yeast etc. They sold kegs but had no keg lube or disconnects for example. Thank god for smart phones and you guys for helping answer questions.

We did however just have a new LHBS open (FINALLY!) I stopped by last week and they at least brew beer themselves seemed very knowledgeable without being pushy. They will grind the grain for you and make up your recipes for you too. And they said if I needed anything they would get it. Needless to say it's pretty exciting.

 

[Cheapspkrs111]

Bev-art in chicago not only will give me options for the cheap route and eventually expensive route but the guys are great! Greg, the owner, goes completely out of his way to have "a sale" every time I'm there. LOL. And believe me with the crowd always there he's not hurting for business. Koz, another of the main guys, almost is like a savant! When you ask him a question you can actually see him reading specifics off of some page in his head! Love that shop. I have a shop 30 minutes from my house instead of 45.....havn't even been there.:rockin::rockin::rockin:

 

[ale_mongrel]

Curious which shop this is. I highly recommend the shop on Pitkin Rd in EH but if you had a good experience somewhere else, awesome!

Zok's in Willimantic, I'd only ever herd anything about him. Maybe Ill stop into EH sometime. Have you ever been to the one in Salem? Robs Wine and Beer Supply I think I havnt heard anything about him either.

 

[Brewer_Bob]

I hate that attitude from salesmen. The best salesmen and service providers, be they a LHBS, a mechanic or anything else, are the ones that try to build a relationship with their clients instead of just trying to sell the most expensive things to them right out of the gate.

I like the ones who ask what you are trying to do and what kind of a budget you are working with. They then make their recommendations based on those criteria. They may educate you on the benefits of the more expensive equipment for future reference but they NEVER make you feel guilty about your purchase of the cheaper stuff. If a salesman treats me with respect like that they will get my repeat business. And later when I have the money for that more expensive stuff, guess who I am going to buy it from?

 

[Strangebird]

My sister-in-law's brother goes to the place in East Hartford and has indicated he really likes it as well.

 

[JeepDiver]

I don't go to my LHBS for that reason, advice is one thing, but telling you what not to do plain pisses me off.

.

My LHBS guy swears that all I can make is crappy beer using BIAB, and that it is just a gimmick that fools people into thinking they are brewing beer. Thankfully I don't get that from BW and AHB when I order from them

 

[Revvy]

My LHBS guy swears that all I can make is crappy beer using BIAB, and that it is just a gimmick that fools people into thinking they are brewing beer. Thankfully I don't get that from BW and AHB when I order from them

Tell that to the Australians who have been doing it for decades.

Folks tend to think that America is always ahead of the curve on stuff. But where home brewing is concerned, from prohibition til 1978 we were in the "dark ages" of brewing as a hobby. There wasn't 10,000 styles of yeast for instance and what we got wasn't all that fresh, we were pretty much just dumping LME and sugar into crocks while places that never dealt with "the great experiment" were able to evolve their hobby. Add to the fact that we didn't have instant global communication of ideas via the interwebs, a lot of stuff is just coming to light in the last few years. Some stuff that we have just begun hearing about, like No Chill, and BIAB, have been successfully been done for decades in other parts of the world.

Just because it is new to him, or to us, doesn't mean it's just a fad.

I bet he says the same thing about Rock and Roll.

 

[akthor]

Not to thread hijack but I didn't know the term BIAB so I had to look it up. Of course I recognize it now from "the easy stovetop AG" sticky.

My question is there a "bag" big enough to use in a 15 gallon sanke keg brewpot?

Tell that to the Australians who have been doing it for decades.

Folks tend to think that America is always ahead of the curve on stuff. But where home brewing is concerned, from prohibition til 1978 we were in the "dark ages" of brewing as a hobby. There wasn't 10,000 styles of yeast for instance and what we got wasn't all that fresh, we were pretty much just dumping LME and sugar into crocks while places that never dealt with "the great experiment" were able to evolve their hobby. Add to the fact that we didn't have instant global communication of ideas via the interwebs, a lot of stuff is just coming to light in the last few years. Some stuff that we have just begun hearing about, like No Chill, and BIAB, have been successfully been done for decades in other parts of the world.

Just because it is new to him, or to us, doesn't mean it's just a fad.

I bet he says the same thing about Rock and Roll.

 

[JeepDiver]

Not to thread hijack but I didn't know the term BIAB so I had to look it up. Of course I recognize it now from "the easy stovetop AG" sticky.

My question is there a "bag" big enough to use in a 15 gallon sanke keg brewpot?

The the easy stovetop AG method isn't exactly BIAB, though it is close. You have to make your own bag for the 15 gallon (well I couldn't find one to buy, but they may be out there). You can get a voile curtain (cut and paste the link below, I don't think it will work if you click on it) and make it out of that.

http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/product.asp?SKU=13506922&RN=129&KSKU=105950

So far I've done 13lbs of grain in my 15 gal kettle. More than that and you probably need a hook to support the bag to let it drain.

 

[Malticulous]

I haven't been in a homebrew shop in 15 years. I wish there was a LHBS near here. There is no denying the convince of it. If one told me I was doing it wrong or gave me bad advice I'd tell them they were wrong. If they were nice about it I'd prove it with a beer.

 

[gratefuldisc]

Zok's in Willimantic, I'd only ever herd anything about him. Maybe Ill stop into EH sometime. Have you ever been to the one in Salem? Robs Wine and Beer Supply I think I havnt heard anything about him either.

Zok's and Brew&Wine hobby in EH are the only ones I've been to.