Leaning towards the GF but let me know if i'm missing something

[TylerB24]

So I've been doing 1gal AG batches as well as 1/5Gal extract brews. I'm ready to move up to 5gal AG. Electric makes sense to me as I prefer the finer control/ease.
Here's my thoughts/requirement:
1. Not concerned w the ability to go larger (10gal, etc)
2. want to be able to do most brews (higher gravity)
3. simpler is better (use, storage, cleanup)

It comes down to some sort of RIMS-ish system (eBIAB, 2 vessel brutus 20, grainfather). Right now I'm leaning towards the grainfather. 8-10-15 gal kettle won't fit on my stove under the microwave hood so it has to go elsewhere and basement is mostly finished and i would have to install an exhaust fan, etc. so that puts me in the garage. I'd have to have a 220v line run there (and with the finished basement) I'm expecting that to cost ~$750-$1000. The grainfather only requiring a single 120v circuit avoids that cost. I like that the GF is mash/boil in the same vessel while still being able to sparge for higher efficiency.

The thing holding me back is 1. while the circuit is likely pricey, it would come in handy for a future electric car charger. 2. would I be better off building my own system?

 

[Horseflesh]

Get a quote for the circuit. I bet it costs less than you are guessing. I've had similar work done.

 

[TylerB24]

yeah I'm going to do that. Let's assume it's reasonable- is the recirculation setup of the high gravity style eBIAB worth it?

 

[Horseflesh]

I'm no authority... I'm actually hanging out in this forum researching the same question! But I'm leaning towards doing it and looking at all the gear options.

Edit: oops--by "doing it" I meant eBIAB in general!

 

[GilSwillBasementBrews]

Well I can't speak to the GF but as far as the circuit goes I had to run a 20amp 240volt circuit for my induction cooktop and the outlet, gang box, faceplate, spa panel, and 20amp 240volt breaker only cost me 35$. The only added cost will be the wire itself but I have some left from a different project so I can't figure in the price of wire. But definitely cheaper doing it yourself than doling out the money for someone else to run it for you. Just my $.02

 

[pagrider]

get the grainfather. it works great on 120. I have done the biab system and it has been sold since i got the GF now i just look at my 240V outlet in my garage and wonder why I ever did it. Dont waste your time and money when there is a great system that will cost you less and require no additional hassles

 

[micraftbeer]

I just wrote a 2-part review of a number of electric all-in-one systems for HBT. Take a look at:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/single-vessel-brewing-systems-overview-review-pt1.html

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/single-vessel-brewing-systems-pt2-reviews.html

 

[Physicsbrewer]

I've brewed on systems that range from 2.5 gallons to 30 barrels. I do not regret my Grainfather purchase at all. If it had been available 20 years ago I would have foregone the cooler mash tun + keg kettle and then the 15 gallon three vessel RIMS, and just gotten the Grainfather instead. If you're happy with 5 gallon batches or smaller volume high gravity+ batches, then the Grainfather is a nice turnkey solution.

 

[TexasWine]

Personally, I went with Brau Supply. Saved some coin compared to the Grainfather and got a much better controller (PID versus the GF's analog) plus lots of other advantages. My system is similar to this one.

http://brausupply.com/collections/b...120v-5-gallon-brew-boss-automated-brew-system

Other things to consider. It's 120v like the GF, you just need two separate circuits to run the elements. You can have up to 4000 watts total (2x2000) if you've got access to 20 amp circuits. I went with 2x1500 watt elements so I could brew anywhere I please on a standard outlet (I bought portable GFCI outlets). This results in much faster heating times when compared to the GF.

Also, I prefer to have a system that I can service myself as opposed to one with proprietary parts.

Any way you go, recirculating eBIAB is a set it and forget it operation. You'll really like it for its simplicity.

 

[TylerB24]

Well I can't speak to the GF but as far as the circuit goes I had to run a 20amp 240volt circuit for my induction cooktop and the outlet, gang box, faceplate, spa panel, and 20amp 240volt breaker only cost me 35$. The only added cost will be the wire itself but I have some left from a different project so I can't figure in the price of wire. But definitely cheaper doing it yourself than doling out the money for someone else to run it for you. Just my $.02

Id have no issues with doing the circuit myself if the basement was unfinished. I'd just rather leave fishing the wire to the garage to a pro to limit the amount of drywall holes to fix.

 

[TylerB24]

Personally, I went with Brau Supply. Saved some coin compared to the Grainfather and got a much better controller (PID versus the GF's analog) plus lots of other advantages. My system is similar to this one.

http://brausupply.com/collections/b...120v-5-gallon-brew-boss-automated-brew-system

Other things to consider. It's 120v like the GF, you just need two separate circuits to run the elements. You can have up to 4000 watts total (2x2000) if you've got access to 20 amp circuits. I went with 2x1500 watt elements so I could brew anywhere I please on a standard outlet (I bought portable GFCI outlets). This results in much faster heating times when compared to the GF.

Also, I prefer to have a system that I can service myself as opposed to one with proprietary parts.

Any way you go, recirculating eBIAB is a set it and forget it operation. You'll really like it for its simplicity.

Ah pretty cool. How are you handing the bag? Pulley? Are you doing any sparging?

 

[TexasWine]

Ah pretty cool. How are you handing the bag? Pulley? Are you doing any sparging?

Yes, I have a ratchet pulley. Normally I brew in the garage and have an overhead anchor point. But I've also brewed elsewhere and just used an A frame ladder as the overhead anchor point. I've used an oven grate in a pinch to simply rest the bag on.

I used to do a dunk sparge, but I've since upgraded my kettle to a 62 quart and now do no sparge.

 

[festbier]

Not sure how much you're saving (compared to GF) once you buy the chiller, not to mention upgrading to a bigger kettle.
And if you don't get a bigger kettle, you're limited on the amount of grain you can use. That's just my opinion based on a quick search on the Brau Supply system

 

[mwm5461]

Not sure how much you're saving (compared to GF) once you buy the chiller, not to mention upgrading to a bigger kettle.
And if you don't get a bigger kettle, you're limited on the amount of grain you can use. That's just my opinion based on a quick search on the Brau Supply system

So I've been doing a lot of research because I've been between a number of different electric brew systems (GF was my primary choice for a period of time). In the end I took some of Texas Wine's advice from another thread on the Brau Supply system and will be purchasing the system without the controller.

I reached out to Steven of Brau Supply who told me he could sell me the system Texas Wine linked to without the controller for $495. I plan to build the controller featured in this thread https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=379938 When I broke down the cost of the components for the controller it came to about $140 which means the whole system would be $635. Quite a bit cheaper than the GF even if you add on a plate chiller for another $100. Just thought I'd share my experience. Good luck with your decision!

 

[TexasWine]

Not sure how much you're saving (compared to GF) once you buy the chiller, not to mention upgrading to a bigger kettle.
And if you don't get a bigger kettle, you're limited on the amount of grain you can use. That's just my opinion based on a quick search on the Brau Supply system

By my figuring, you'll save a little more than $100 with the Brau Supply even after buying the chiller. Plus you'll get a PID controller as opposed to the analog one that comes standard on the GF. And depending on the options you select, you you'll have between 1.9 and 2.5 times the available wattage (3000 watts or 4000 watts).

And there's no need to upgrade to a larger kettle. I was an early adopter of their systems and got a 9 gallon kettle and I eventually outgrew that. Now the kettle is 12 gallon.

Per the Brau Supply website, the system holds up to 37.5 lbs of grain. Personally, I think your efficiency would suffer greatly at the water/grain ratio. I would do a max of a 30 lb grain bill. At that grain bill you should be able to hit a 1.100 OG at 60% efficiency, no sparge of course.

From what I've read, the GF is limited to 20 lbs, which will limit the upper range of beers you can make without using extract.

In my opinion, the GF is overpriced and limited. Not saying folks don't buy them and greatly enjoy their purchase. Just my 2 cents on the matter.

And let's not even get started on how to do a low dissolved oxygen brew day on the GF

 

[festbier]

Ok, gotcha. I didn't know they upped their kettle. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[TylerB24]

Yup. Going with the 2x1500 Unibrau. Thanks TexasWine!

 

[micraftbeer]

Not sure how much you're saving (compared to GF) once you buy the chiller, not to mention upgrading to a bigger kettle.
And if you don't get a bigger kettle, you're limited on the amount of grain you can use. That's just my opinion based on a quick search on the Brau Supply system

When I did my trials of the different systems for HBT, I was excited to try out the counterflow chiller. I had visions of how much time it was save me. In the end, I found it didn't save me any time over my standard copper coil immersion chiller. And I even found it ran me into some limitations.

On my first GF batch, I figured I'd recirculate the output from the counterflow back into the body, and I'd keep track of the wort temperature with the digital probe running in the GF. I set about recirculating and then started tidying things up. I came back later and found it hadn't cooled as much as I wanted. I then found I had clogged the inlet filter to the pump with hop trub and was just trickling flow through at that point. The GF support team pointed out that re-circulating for more than a couple minutes would lead to that problem so I should just recirculate ~5 minutes and then route it right into my fermenter.

So I followed that on my 2nd batch. I didn't clog my pump inlet, but I got wort into the fermenter at 70F. You might think, "Big deal, that's not hot." But I wanted 65F, because I like to start out my ale fermentations in that range and slowly let them warm up. With no temperature measure of what was coming out of the counterflow chiller, I was just left with 5 gallons of wort in my fermenter at whatever temperature it wanted to be. If I was using my old immersion chiller, I could've monitored the wort temperature and decided when I was cold enough to then transfer to fermenter. And before you wonder if I let the wort flow through the counterflow way too fast, I restricted the wort flow rate, so my transfer time was still 15 minutes.

So in the end, I got no time save over my low-tech chiller, and I got less control of the cooled wort waiting to be pitched yeast. I think the counterflow would've worked well if I had used a hop spider or something to keep my pump inlet from getting plugged up. Then I could've recirculated wort back into the main vessel until I hit my temperature. Then just quickly pump out into my fermenter.

I guess bottom line I'm saying that I also thought the CF chiller was going to be the bomb, but in the end it didn't really deliver that much for me.

 

[TylerB24]

Yeah I'm going to stick with my copper immersion chiller for now. And maybe upgrade to a plate chiller later.

 

[elburrogrande]

So I've been doing a lot of research because I've been between a number of different electric brew systems (GF was my primary choice for a period of time). In the end I took some of Texas Wine's advice from another thread on the Brau Supply system and will be purchasing the system without the controller.

I reached out to Steven of Brau Supply who told me he could sell me the system Texas Wine linked to without the controller for $495. I plan to build the controller featured in this thread https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=379938 When I broke down the cost of the components for the controller it came to about $140 which means the whole system would be $635. Quite a bit cheaper than the GF even if you add on a plate chiller for another $100. Just thought I'd share my experience. Good luck with your decision!

I purchased my GF on ebay from igobru for under $800 and hes a certified retailer. I wouldn't say that's quite a bit more than you spent. Specially considering it came with free shipping and no taxes. And its pre assembled ready to plug in to any outlet. As far as performance I can't say because I still haven't used it and have no experience with yours.

 

[Brewmasher]

When I did my trials of the different systems for HBT, I was excited to try out the counterflow chiller. I had visions of how much time it was save me. In the end, I found it didn't save me any time over my standard copper coil immersion chiller. And I even found it ran me into some limitations.

On my first GF batch, I figured I'd recirculate the output from the counterflow back into the body, and I'd keep track of the wort temperature with the digital probe running in the GF. I set about recirculating and then started tidying things up. I came back later and found it hadn't cooled as much as I wanted. I then found I had clogged the inlet filter to the pump with hop trub and was just trickling flow through at that point. The GF support team pointed out that re-circulating for more than a couple minutes would lead to that problem so I should just recirculate ~5 minutes and then route it right into my fermenter.

So I followed that on my 2nd batch. I didn't clog my pump inlet, but I got wort into the fermenter at 70F. You might think, "Big deal, that's not hot." But I wanted 65F, because I like to start out my ale fermentations in that range and slowly let them warm up. With no temperature measure of what was coming out of the counterflow chiller, I was just left with 5 gallons of wort in my fermenter at whatever temperature it wanted to be. If I was using my old immersion chiller, I could've monitored the wort temperature and decided when I was cold enough to then transfer to fermenter. And before you wonder if I let the wort flow through the counterflow way too fast, I restricted the wort flow rate, so my transfer time was still 15 minutes.

So in the end, I got no time save over my low-tech chiller, and I got less control of the cooled wort waiting to be pitched yeast. I think the counterflow would've worked well if I had used a hop spider or something to keep my pump inlet from getting plugged up. Then I could've recirculated wort back into the main vessel until I hit my temperature. Then just quickly pump out into my fermenter.

I guess bottom line I'm saying that I also thought the CF chiller was going to be the bomb, but in the end it didn't really deliver that much for me.

I solved my clogging issues by whirlpooling, wait 10 min, then open ball valve slowly. I have not had any problem cooling wort by letting the cold water circulate for a few min before turning on the wort and pumping straight into the fermenter. To the contrary, I have been brewing saisons and actually have to adjust to get it up to higher temps.

If your tap water is not that cold, you could try immersing the CFC in a bucket of ice water with some salt added.