Lager not clearing even after fining.

[Queequeg]

I have a lager in there keg at 33F. I have fined with gelatine (1/2 tsp)and kieselsol (11ml).

It's 84 hours later and no sign of improvement in clarity apart from the yeast dropping out.

Grain bill was 58% pils, 24.8% vienna, 12.0% Munich I, 3% carahell, 1.8% acid malt


Yeast was wyeast 2633, mash was for 60 mins at 149F, and 30 mins at 159F.

Mash pH was 5.49, sparge pH was 5.5. no kettle correction.

Water profile, Ca 13.5, Mg 12, Na 9, Cl 40, HCO2 25

Cooling on wort was done fairly quickly via an initial recirculation through CFPC using towns water and then a single pass to the fermenter through the CFPC using cold water from the freezer at 0.5°C.

Whirlfloc was used in the boil

So my thoughts are

It should not be, cold break, kettle break, tannins, carbonate, it's currently not under gas

-it will clear in the next few days, maybe though normally if it don't clear quickly it's not going to clear

-low Ca in water chem

Something else entirely, maybe product of yeast choixe

It tastes fine btw, so not an infection.

Thoughts suggestions?

 

[waldoar15]

I'd just give it more time. My lagers sit for at least a month at cold temps after kegging. Sometimes 3-4 months. I only use kettle finings.

 

[Queequeg]

That's a long time to wait, I'm impatient hence the finings.

The thing I find perplexing though is I have had a lager before clear in a few days. However when I made a Vienna it didn't clear untill several months (again despite finning). I put this down to that is was on the gas which slows clarification.

But I now wonder if it related to Vienna malt?

 

[specharka]

Hmm...I recently brewed a lager with a similar grainbill, with almost all the yeast flocking out after 72 hours @ 36F. No post-boil finings. So I don’t think it’s anything on your hot side that’s driving a lack of clarity.

What temperature did you add your finings at?

How did you verify the hardness of your water?

 

[Smellyglove]

Can it be chill haze? If you look at a beer at maybe 6C and then at 2C the 2C might be hazy due to chill haze and the 6C could be clear. In regards to you noticing a vienna clear by a few days, temperature?

 

[Queequeg]

What temperature did you add your finings at?

How did you verify the hardness of your water?

Finings went in at 33F

The water is bottle water, that is the label claim

 

[Queequeg]

Here is a pic straight from the keg, by the time it is in the glass it is at 4.4°C. I will let to warm to serving temp to see what happens.

 

[Smellyglove]

Here is a pic straight from the keg, by the time it is in the glass it is at 4.4°C. I will let to warm to serving temp to see what happens.View attachment 592157

That's more than chill haze indeed, so no need to warm it up actually.

 

[Queequeg]

Even after warming to 10C it looks the same, and upon closer inspection it looks to be suspended particulates and not a colloid. So may guess it my fining process failed to clear the yeast.

 

[Queequeg]

I'm just going to put it on the gas an drink it hazey as I don't want to add more finings as each time there is an oxidation risk.

However, I consulted briggs' regarding clarification. Interesting Isinglass is made up of collagen and gelatin, but it is the collagen that attracts yeast not the gelatin. So much misinformation around on the net regarding clarification with finings.

Chitosan is a alternative to Islinglass, gelatine seems to do the same thing as kieselsol precipitating out polyphenols and proteins

I have just ordered some chitosan, so well see how that goes on my next lager.

 

[specharka]

I’ve heard it’s better to add finings around 50F / 10C for solubility reasons, otherwise it will settle out before it has a chance to bind to the proteins.

I hate to beat a dead horse here but you really shouldn’t need post-boil finings at all. Managing water chemistry, thorough sanitation procedures and controlling fermentation temperatures are really the only things that’s required to achieve bright beer.

Some yeast strains are very slow to flock out and can arrest the process but you’ll get there eventually. My Kölsch was disgustingly hazy for 2-3 weeks so I lagered it until it dropped out. It’s really bright now.

 

[Queequeg]

Yeah, I get that but as I said I want a quicker turn around

 

[Smellyglove]

Yeah, I get that but as I said I want a quicker turn around

Brew beers which are supposed to be hazy? Or call it a kellerbier without the oak if it's a lager?

 

[Queequeg]

I like the challenge

I will report back on my next lager using the chitosan.

 

[Smellyglove]

I like the challenge

I will report back on my next lager using the chitosan.

I like your answer. About it being a challenge.

 

[Queequeg]

Surprisingly this has cleared up significantly once it went on the gas. I wonder if it was a temperature thing?

 

[Queequeg]

Here is a photo for your pleasure