Kits- I don't get it

[gtpro]

I've never brewed a kit, so maybe somebody can give me some insight here. Don't most kits come with just one can (3.3lbs) of LME? With most average recipes calling for about twice that, how do these beers come out? They must leave some malt character to be desired.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Some do come with 2 cans of LME but, many also come with a few pounds of DME and steeping grains. Beer doth not need be rocket fuel to be desirable and many of the kits are geared toward style guidelines and sessionable styles.

 

[TipsyDragon]

the good kits come with what ever amount of extract the beer needs. i have only used specialty grain and extract kits and they all have turned out just fine.

if i got a kit that had half the needed extract i would complain and get my money back and never order from them again.

 

[BioBeing]

You are right: 1 can of LME isn't going to go very far.

The "kit" part is often prehopped extract, then make it to your desired gravity with DME and/or sugar. Look up "Kit and a kilo". Basically a can of LME and a kilo (or 2 lbs) of DME and/or sugar. Just boil it up: no need to worry about hops.

Other places, like Austin Homebrew, develop more sophisticated kits that have 6 or more pounds of LME plus steeping grains, hops etc.

 

[Revvy]

It depends on the type of "kit" and where you get it from. Many so-called kits are exactly what you or I would get if we stopped into the lhbs with our recipe. Except packed up in a nice box for us.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

There are good kits and bad kits. If you order a kit from Ikea, then you will probably get beer that looks like a coffee table.

If you have an idea of what you are after, then it should be possible to get an idea of how well that kit will meet your purpose. If you want opinions on a specific kit, then just post it here. There will be a ton of people happy to break it down and chime in with suggestions.

 

[robertvrabel]

It depends on the type of "kit" and where you get it from. Many so-called kits are exactly what you or I would get if we stopped into the lhbs with our recipe. Except packed up in a nice box for us.

Exactly what I was going to post... if you buy good kits, you can find exceptional recipes and everything is packed exactly for what you need. I've bought 4 kits from northernbrewer.com and they have been very good so far! I do plan to move away from these and do my own... but in getting the process down as a newbie I have found them to be great. I didn't have to worry about left overs, or measuring anything. I've also seen on Austin Homebrew that they have a lot of good clone recipe kits... those seem like they would be good to try.

 

[bam]

Homebrewers Outpost is another pretty decent one to order "kits" from.

 

[gtpro]

It just seems to me that if I can buy all of the ingredients separately for less, or even the same money, I would opt to do that.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

It just seems to me that if I can buy all of the ingredients separately for less, or even the same money, I would opt to do that.

You started a thread for that!!?? Where the heck is the facepalm smiley!??

 

[bam]

I think it really just depends on what your level of experience and what your goals for the beer are. If you're like me, a fairly new brewer, then it just seems easier to find a pre-measured, all ingredients included, packaged "kit" with a recipe to follow than trying to figure out each individual ingredient, how much of it, when to add it to the wort, etc. Us new brewers can follow the recipes and these kits, read along on here, ask questions, search for answers and really learn the process step by step before stepping up to buying ingredients in bulk or developing our own recipes.

**NOTE: This is my opinion on what has worked for me and the friends that I have gotten interested in homebrewing.

 

[osagedr]

It depends on the type of "kit" and where you get it from. Many so-called kits are exactly what you or I would get if we stopped into the lhbs with our recipe. Except packed up in a nice box for us.

Yep.

Some kits (like Festa Brew) actually come with up to six gallons of wort. Add yeast, aerate and wait.

Everyone finds the level that is right for them; many who start with the simplest kits (like I did) progress to extracts, extracts with specialty grains, partial mashes, then all-grain (like I am/plan to). Some people are limited by space/finances (or even interest) and can't go further than kits. Nobody really needs to have anyone imply they're inferior because they choose to brew simpler.

 

[MississippiSlim]

And the kit price and buying the individual ingredients are close if not cheaper at times with the kit unless you are buying in bulk

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

Yep.

Some kits (like Festa Brew) actually come with up to six gallons of wort. Add yeast, aerate and wait.

Everyone finds the level that is right for them; many who start with the simplest kits (like I did) progress to extracts, extracts with specialty grains, partial mashes, then all-grain (like I am/plan to). Some people are limited by space/finances (or even interest) and can't go further than kits. Nobody really needs to have anyone imply they're inferior because they choose to brew simpler.

I agree with that, But the OP said that he had never brewed a kit anyway! I guess I understand the question. I just don't understand the reason for it.

 

[david_42]

I've been brewing for a while and really like odd clone kits. Sure I could track down a recipe and drive to the store, but when you figure in fuel costs vs shipping, ordering it wins.

And how else would you try "Jasper Murdock's Whistling Pig Red"?

 

[Yooper]

It just seems to me that if I can buy all of the ingredients separately for less, or even the same money, I would opt to do that.

Ah, but that's the beauty of those kits! I can order a kit like this: http://www.austinhomebrew.com/produ...=1125&osCsid=914154c99b928984509dffa80b5d36ec

As you can see, it comes with 7 pounds of extract, all the necessary hops and 10 ounces of specialty grains. There is a grain bag in there, too. I don't know if I could purchase 7 pounds of extract, and the grains I needed (sometimes you have to buy a whole pound of each grain if bought separately in some stores), for less.

 

[BioBeing]

The thread under this one in "My Replies" is https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f41/25-50-off-pliny-elder-clone-kit-156469/

Now there is a kit!

 

[gtpro]

Well I started this thread with a genuine interest in kits, I had them pushed on me at the LHBS when I was shopping my first ingredients, but I just didnt find that to be my style. Then I found the dialog to be interesting. I wanted to know what level of experience people will achieve before moving away from kits, (if ever). See, when I pictured a kit I was picturing one of those true brew "shoebox" brews I see on the shelf at my HBS.

Heres some numbers on that Pliny kit, (just rough figures)

Extract:
9lbs/3.3= 2.72 x ($11 -what I pay for a can of Muntons) = $30
1lb corn sugar = $0.77
.5lb base = $0.60
1.13lb specialty= $1.70
17oz hops (bought in bulk online) = $11.00
1 pack of Nottingham = $1.50
Total = $45.57 vs. 57.49 +7.99 shipping = $65.48

Obviously the restricting factor would be the hops, because I'm sure this beer takes a few different varieties, and you would hafta have those on hand, or be able to get them at wholesale to make this price.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

Well I started this thread with a genuine interest in kits, I had them pushed on me at the LHBS when I was shopping my first ingredients, but I just didnt find that to be my style. Then I found the dialog to be interesting. I wanted to know what level of experience people will achieve before moving away from kits, (if ever). See, when I pictured a kit I was picturing one of those true brew "shoebox" brews I see on the shelf at my HBS.

Well, I brew my own recipes (All grain) But when i did the Greenwood Rover memorial brew I bought the kit from Brewmaster's Warehouse. All works out well in the end. I worry much more about my method than I do ingredients. ALL the ingredients make beer, however, not all brewers make beer. Some make liquid monkey poo.

 

[springer]

I will buy a kit like Austin Homebrews pliny when its on sale or when i am lazy and just want to brew.

 

[MississippiSlim]

I would say it takes a certain amount of the guess work out of brewing a certain beer. And AHS includes the recipe with the beer so if you choose to buy the individual ingredients the next time you have a list. Too me its the same as brewing from a recipe its just someone else put together the bill of ingredients for you. When I get my brew shed built I can see bulk ordering and brewing from recipe but I really like the kits.

 

[l1ranger]

I would say it takes a certain amount of the guess work out of brewing a certain beer. And AHS includes the recipe with the beer so if you choose to buy the individual ingredients the next time you have a list. Too me its the same as brewing from a recipe its just someone else put together the bill of ingredients for you. When I get my brew shed built I can see bulk ordering and brewing from recipe but I really like the kits.

thats a bingo

as a beginner - I'd basically have to have somebody tell me what to get, and then order it online, so why not just order a kit that has all the extract, hops, yeast, sugar and grains I need anyways.

 

[cheezydemon3]

There are good kits and bad kits. If you order a kit from Ikea, then you will probably get beer that looks like a coffee table.

LMAO!!!!

I would order a kit for some bizarro style that requires 2 oz of this and 3 oz of that, that would leave me with tons of extra.(Local mega liquor store is in 1 lb increments)

Still might not ever happen (no kits to date) but there is no shame in it.

 

[AnthonyD]

Don't forget that included in the price of the kit is all the time and testing it took to make that recipe just right. If you want to put your own "clone" recipe together, there's a good chance it's going to take some trial and error to get it just right.

If you're looking to enjoy that process, then go for it. But if you're looking to make the brew on the first shot, why not let someone else do all the trial and error?

In the case of Austin, you also have the choice to go with extract, partial mash, or all grain for any of their kits.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

Everything I was going to say was already said before.

 

[LarryC]

I'm still a rookie so kits and partial mash is my current level of progression. I did go to my LHBS last year and buy all the ingredients for a recipe I found on the web. It wasn't real fancy but I walked out of the store $60 poorer - I could have bought a similar kit on line for about $40.

I support my LHBS but I can't afford to give up that much...

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

I'm still a rookie so kits and partial mash is my current level of progression. I did go to my LHBS last year and buy all the ingredients for a recipe I found on the web. It wasn't real fancy but I walked out of the store $60 poorer - I could have bought a similar kit on line for about $40.

I support my LHBS but I can't afford to give up that much...

You probably could have bought the individual ingredients online for cheaper than what you got at the LHBS.

 

[xinunix]

My LHBS has great kits (IMHO). They seem to have very fresh ingredients, all come with DME, steeping grains, whirlfloc tablet, hops (plugs or pellets for bittering and flavoring hops, flowers for aroma) and priming sugar.

Every month they have 15 or so on sale for 15% off Alternative Beverage Monthly Specials.

Here is a full listing of the kits they offer: Full Extract Kit List

 

[dvdfnzwbr]

To get a decent good tasting beer from extract you need to buy a kit with hops, extract, and grains. A good one costs $40 and up. Uncle Bud comes close to that price with the beer made for you and no work. The only good tasting low cost way to brew your own is with all grain, farm your yeast, filter tap water, and buy hops in bulk.

 

[mr_bell]

I wanted to know what level of experience people will achieve before moving away from kits, (if ever).

Here's my experience with kits. I've been brewing 2 years. I still use kits (extract) from Austin, Northern Brewer and Midwest. These are most convenient for me. I've tweaked the kits, in terms of hop additions, using Beersmith due to the fact that I do partial boils, with late extract additions. I recently purchased a wort chiller and a turkey fryer set so that I can do full boils. Also been experimenting with yeast starters, yeast washing (or as Jamil Z would put it, yeast rinsing), and re-pitching yeast. Looking at picking up a spare fridge for better fermenting temp control, and to be able to brew lagers.

Even though I'm still using kits, I feel like I am still refining and improving my process. All of my beers (except 1) have been good, but I'm looking to make them great. For me, there is no desire to move away from extract kits at this point because I really want to get my process perfected. Yes, I'm that guy. If anything, I may try a partial mash soon.

While I've put together several extract (w/ spec. grains) recipes of my own, I have yet to brew one. The kits are just most convenient for me.

 

[cheezydemon3]

I have NEVER done a kit and find it hard to believe they are cheaper!

I no longer shop my LHBS because they are on average $10 more per recipe than the mega store. My point being that prices vary, you can find a discounted kit that is cheaper than the ingredients at an overpriced LHBS, but apples to apples, ingredients are cheaper.

 

[McGarnigle]

At all the online sellers, I believe kits are cheaper than buying the same ingredients. It think from the vendors standpoint, it's easier to assemble a given recipe that others have bought many times before. Or maybe it's the equivalent of a bulk discount.

Now, you may find Vendor A ingredients beat Vendor B kits, and of course True Brew, Brewer's Best, et. al. may cost more as they're being re-sold. But apples to apples, I'm pretty sure kits are cheaper.

 

[mr_bell]

But apples to apples, I'm pretty sure kits are cheaper.

When I have priced out (online) ingredients for the recipes I've created, they've come out more expensive that a kit. Kits from my LHBS are definitely more expensive, that's why I've never bought one from there. Oddly, kits and ingredients are more expensive (at my LHBS vs. online) but other items, like carboys, tubing and some other equipment, are cheaper.

For me, kits save time and money--and time is money right?. By using a tested recipe, I can focus on getting my process down, and I've nearly got it to where I want it to be. (If anyone in the NW suburbs of Chicago has a spare fridge to get rid of, please PM me!)

 

[cheezydemon3]

I really liked my LHBS, but with the megamart being so much cheaper, it became a no brainer.

I assume any talk of "online" includes shipping?

Is shipping more on individual ingredients bought on the same order?

 

[bam]

from what I've noticed, shipping varies between online suppliers. Some charge a simple flat rate regardless, or even offer free shipping if you order x$ worth. I don't think you pay individual shipping per ingredient, but rather per order. So, for online ordering it is usually best, if you plan on purchasing a lot of stuff to get it all at one time and only pay one shipping charge.

For me, I'm going to stick with "kits" - as we are calling them - simply because a.) I wanna get the process of brewing down pat without much worry; learn the process, get comfy with it, then advance to the next level b.) I can't afford to buy the extra equipment needed to go all-grain, and it makes more financial sense, in my situation, to continue with extract/steeping grains for now, just buy kits and save some money to get the equipment for an all-grain setup and start buying ingredients in bulk/individually.

or at least somethin like that lol.

either way, beer is made and beer is good.

 

[Yooper]

I really liked my LHBS, but with the megamart being so much cheaper, it became a no brainer.

I assume any talk of "online" includes shipping?

Is shipping more on individual ingredients bought on the same order?

No, but you can't always buy 2 ounces of this, and 4 ounces of that. If you want a recipe with a variety of specialty grains in odd amounts, sometimes you're "stuck" with buying a whole pound.

If you price out the Northern brewer kits, vs the very same ingredients but not in their "kit", the non-kit costs a little bit more. Shipping is the same flat rate, no matter what, so that takes the shipping cost out of the equation.

 

[McGarnigle]

I think the difference is, if you buy from an online vendor, they have to have someone running around picking up the items you order whether it's a kit or indy ingredients.

An LHBS will often have a 'serve yourself' element. You do the running around, maybe milling the grains, etc., so it's cheaper for the store if they don't have to assemble a kit.

Cheezydemon, maybe you answered this earlier in the thread, but what do you mean by "megamart" in the context of homebrew supplies?

 

[dc_x]

My advice with kits is to make sure you buy them with fresh ingredients. I bought a few kits from my LHBS that I think had sat on their shelves for a few months. The beers didn't come out well at all.

The online places seem to have good kits because I think they assemble then when you order. So you are getting fresh extract, freshly crushed grains, and fresh yeast.

 

[RushN24]

I just brewed a blonde ale based on a kit recipe, I tweaked it to make it my own but I followed the kit's pattern.

Kit Cost $39.89
My Ingr. $41.40
Diff = $1.60

Not much of a difference but I think its only a small price to pay to know I got my choice of hops, specialty grain, and yeast and my choice of brand. Infact if you factor in that I still have 1oz of hops leftover there's pretty much no difference.

I'm not sure why the difference though. I would have to say that logically you would think a kit cost more based on the extra processing involved, and additional packaging/marketing costs.

I'm probably not doing the kit producers justice when I say that I think you can easily take a kit recipe and sort of shadow it with your own choice of ingredients for plus/minus 10% of the kit's original cost and have the confidence of knowing you chose the ingredients. The only additional cost I can see here is bottle caps and sanitiser which for a single batch should average around $2.00 - $1.50 per batch more (based on 5gal), give or take depending on quantity discount. And don't worry it will still come conveniently packaged in a nice box, just without the colorful pictures, unless your retailer uses tie-dye shipping labels. I'm not sure about your retailer but at the online retailer I use I've compared a few recipes and found the 10% fluctuation in cost to be pretty accurate assuming your buying small quantities. If you by bulk it will be even and even more narrow variation.

In fact I think shadowing kits is an ideal way to start easing into creating you own recipes; you adjust the kit recipe and make it your own, down the line you adjust this recipe to correct for inadequacies (be there any) thus further customizing it, and before you know it your pretty much making you own original beer. That's how I plan on progressing. The experience alone IMO is worth the minor cost.

 

[brewagentjay]

I have only done one kit and I have second kit ready to go. I did a cider but it was a simple juice deal so I guess that's not a kit.

Seems to me that it's like anything else you do what you like to do. Some like kits, some don't, and some like it both ways............

Make beer, drink it, and be happy.