Didn't they say they were taking a break and they would be back after their kickstarter event was done? Or something like that...
kitlab. WTF?
- Thread starter k1ngl1ves
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Didn't they say they were taking a break and they would be back after their kickstarter event was done? Or something like that...
I have never heard of betterbeerkits.com until just now. Plus, this guy got a slot on the news to talk about this? Any shameless plugs for betterbeerkits.com? Just sayin. Maybe he knows $45K isn't going to happen but he sure is getting a lot of free publicity.
damnit guys! (and possibly ladies)... i'm normaly super skeptical. the one time i was a little bit optimistic about something and you all go and ruin it. there goes my trust in the entire human race once again...
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Kind of funny. Just about every Yooper recipe says "I know I saw this recipe somewhere". Some of hers are original, some have been followed, enjoyed and posted. I have brewed my fair share of other people's recipes. Everyone has the option of keeping their recipe a secret and selling tons of beer.
I'm just not sure how this is different than others making kits, other than trying to capitalize on the Brewers they came from.
I'm just not sure how this is different than others making kits, other than trying to capitalize on the Brewers they came from.
CGVT
Senior Member
It really isn't much different than the recipe file that Brewmaster's Warehouse had before they went out of business. I'm pretty sure that every one of Yooper's recipes was on there as well as many other "standards" (Edwort, Biermuncher etc etc) from here. BWH was making money by building kits from those recipes. Nobody complained about that. I'm not sure that I see a problem with this.
If all of my recipes were on there, that would be news to me. Still, it doesn't really matter to me whether I get a dollar or not for it.
What may make this hard is if we all post recipes on there, hoping to make a few dollars, who will say if they are proven and tested recipes? I don't order kits any more, but for others who do I recommend kits from places like Northern Brewer. I've brewed them, or others I know have, and even if not, they are all tested proven recipes. If I buy a kit from kitlab, and it's "Bill Mahler's IPA", and the recipe isn't actually very good, how does that work out for the consumer? Not well. I remember someone used the Brewmaster's Warehouse "brew builder" and made a recipe with 10 pounds of caramunich. No one said, "hey, dude, that won't work!" until he came to our site to question his poor efficiency. These would be the big concerns of mine- WHO designed this recipe, is it proven, and is it good?
Our site requires all recipes to be proven winners, and multiple posts will attest to certain recipes. I'm not sure I'd have confidence to order a kit from "Jake" or whoever.
I lost that decades ago.
CGVT
Senior Member
Ok, **most**
I think that the same as BWH's brew builder recipe base it is a buyer be ware type issue. If a person had an idea of what they were looking at, the convenience of being able to order a recipe that was already measured and packaged would not be a bad thing. I know that before I bought a mill and started buying in bulk, the brew builder was a pretty nice feature for making some of your recipes, as well as a few others that are posted here on HBT. If the cost isn't prohibitive, it could be a good tool to add to other sites and their recipes.
brewprint
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Why would anyone buy a kit from the recipes in the first place? That's what I don't understand.
The ingredients are listed. A guy or gal could just email or print out a recipe and give it to the LHBS and get the 'kit.' Or just order online from my LHBS like I do and get it shipped.
I just don't get it. It's not like it's much work to copy and paste.
The ingredients are listed. A guy or gal could just email or print out a recipe and give it to the LHBS and get the 'kit.' Or just order online from my LHBS like I do and get it shipped.
I just don't get it. It's not like it's much work to copy and paste.
I agree with Yooper 100%. I'll add that what worries me is that some folks could stop posting to HBT and similar communities, so that they can make a few bucks by only posting to KL. Then the sharing and collaboration that makes HBT so great may be compromised.
Not sure where the $1/gallon figure came from - was it pulled out of someone's butt or is that actually what kitlab is offering its contributors? Adding $5 overhead on top of every 5 gallon kit is way too much, and it creates too much incentive for contributors to share recipes or try to game the system by spamming the site with recipes ripped off of sites like this one. Unless it's closely regulated, there will be thousands of recipes on offer (many identical and many sub-par) making order fulfillment a huge pain and driving away customers who are overwhelmed by the selection. $1/kit with no distinction between kit sizes would be far more reasonable, and even that might be enough to cause problems.
I still want to be optimistic about the idea, but reading this thread makes it easy to see the hundred ways in which it could go wrong.
I still want to be optimistic about the idea, but reading this thread makes it easy to see the hundred ways in which it could go wrong.
This is from KL's Kickstarter page
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/993873893/kit-lab-sell-your-own-beer-kits-support-great-brew
I wonder what will happen when popular recipes sell over 600 gallons in a year, thereby triggering the IRS requirement to issue a form 1099-misc (any money earned over $600) by Kit Lab to their contributors. Will they start requiring people to register with SSN just to post a recipe? If they already paid the money but failed to get an SSN for tax reporting, they will be facing some fines. Ask me how I know.
I wonder what will happen when popular recipes sell over 600 gallons in a year, thereby triggering the IRS requirement to issue a form 1099-misc (any money earned over $600) by Kit Lab to their contributors. Will they start requiring people to register with SSN just to post a recipe? If they already paid the money but failed to get an SSN for tax reporting, they will be facing some fines. Ask me how I know.
how do you know?
Haha, thanks Billy.
Yeah, I ended up owing $1700 to the IRS on $2200 paid to someone for side jobs. They hadn't given me a SSN, I just wrote them small checks each time. Well once the IRS discovered it I tried to get their SSN, but they refused. I was liable for all taxes, interest, and a fine.
Edit to add: if you pay cash under the table this would be easy to hide. But KL will certainly be paying by check, bank transfer, PayPal, or some other easily traceable method.
Yeah, I ended up owing $1700 to the IRS on $2200 paid to someone for side jobs. They hadn't given me a SSN, I just wrote them small checks each time. Well once the IRS discovered it I tried to get their SSN, but they refused. I was liable for all taxes, interest, and a fine.
Edit to add: if you pay cash under the table this would be easy to hide. But KL will certainly be paying by check, bank transfer, PayPal, or some other easily traceable method.
CGVT
Senior Member
There a lot of people that would by a kit from a recipe. My first all-grain beer was Yooper's Pale Ale. After reading a bunch on here, I decided that was what I wanted to make. It is an hour and a half of my life to drive to my LHBS and back. The recipe was listed in the Brewmaster's Warehouse Brewbuilder data base. I ordered it and paid $4.99 shipping. It showed up in two days and I didn't have to do anything other than wait for it to show up and then brew it. It was damn tasty, BTW.
It would really not be any different than ordering it on line from your LHBS and getting it shipped, just like you do. It is a convenience issue.
I can't see myself using kitlab now, but I could have seen me using it when I first started.
I do think that kitlab is probably going to be too expensive to succeed.
brewprint
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There a lot of people that would by a kit from a recipe. My first all-grain beer was Yooper's Pale Ale. After reading a bunch on here, I decided that was what I wanted to make. It is an hour and a half of my life to drive to my LHBS and back. The recipe was listed in the Brewmaster's Warehouse Brewbuilder data base. I ordered it and paid $4.99 shipping. It showed up in two days and I didn't have to do anything other than wait for it to show up and then brew it. It was damn tasty, BTW.
It would really not be any different than ordering it on line from your LHBS and getting it shipped, just like you do. It is a convenience issue.
I can't see myself using kitlab now, but I could have seen me using it when I first started.
I do think that kitlab is probably going to be too expensive to succeed.
I guess it's convenience. I don't believe that it would be much more convenient though.
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I wonder what will happen when popular recipes sell over 600 gallons in a year, thereby triggering the IRS requirement to issue a form 1099-misc (any money earned over $600) by Kit Lab to their contributors. Will they start requiring people to register with SSN just to post a recipe? If they already paid the money but failed to get an SSN for tax reporting, they will be facing some fines. Ask me how I know.
Can you imagine, if say, Edworts Apfelwein had originally been posted to KL?
28401.5 gallons of that since published. And that is just those who've reported it. That is an awesome chunk of change.
Now imagine if it was just someone who scalped the recipe from here.
Chris_Primavera
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Looks like he's a bit short:
$5,434 pledged of $44,995 goal
4 days to go
Wonder what happens to the money if this flops?
$5,434 pledged of $44,995 goal
4 days to go
Wonder what happens to the money if this flops?
Like all kickstarter campaigns that are not funded, money is refunded to all contributors.
He can relaunch with a lower goal, but based on the current amount funded, he would have to knock off a good $35 to $40k to ensure he met his goal.
Fixed
Northern Brewer lists all their recipes on line.... they still sell a ton of kits. In fact, that is one of the reasons I bought kits from NB when I was in the "kit buying" stage of my brewing.
I think one thing in regard to "just print the recipe off and take it to your LHBS" is this - A LOT of LHBS's do not always have everything on hand..... you go in with a recipe and the owner says: "I don't have that yeast, but you can use this one." "This base grain will work just as well." "These hops are pretty close." ..... By the time someone walks out the door, they have a different beer than the recipe they brought in.
Not sure if this thing will go anywhere, seems like a lot of potential issues that could spring up. But, I don't see anything "wrong" with it. Considering they could have done the EXACT same thing, and not offered to give anyone a dime for any recipe......... in case this looks familiar to anyone:
http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/allgrain/AG-OfftheTopper.pdf
Kan we dance wif yo dates?
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My first 2 batches I bought kits from either brewers best or a recipe my LHBS had online.
I simply did not know how else to start.
Last week I took all the ingredients from brewers best pale ale kit, and bought them separately from my LHBS, I intend to make the recipe, but add some of my own tweeks.
I have an issue with someone taking a known, published recipe and adding 1 ingredient or step, calling it their own and getting all the glory for it. Moreso if they make money off of it. in fact I got into a bit of a dust up on another forum for calling someone out for just such a thing! it is just berry wine, they have been making it for thousands of years, dont flatter yourself!!!!!
If I make a skunky lager that tastes like Bud, I call it a lager, not my own "pyg's skunky lager"!
Most recipes all have similar stuff, malts, grains, sugars, hops, yeast.
Anyway I can understand people needing to buy kits, since not every one is as lucky as many of us and have numerous LHBS within 20-30 min drive.
But this kickstarter seems to be someone who is just trying to make some money in a different way off the hobby!
I'm not as focused on the right or wrong of the kits and such. Why doesn't he just focus on growing the business he has now? That is what I didn't really get. He's asking for a lot of money, more than what seems necessary for this considering his existing business. Unless his existing business is doing something more like a drop ship and he has no warehouse or any control over the quality of the ingredients and such.
I certainly would not give him money to get a business idea started if he's willing to put an entire business on hold to to do it. How do i know that six months from now he isn't going to get another marginally better idea and "press pause" on kitlab for two months to pursue that one?
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How can you know that about any crowdfund/kickstart idea?
What if kitlab is meant to be fork off of betterbeerkits, where bbk is the materials side and KL is the fulfilment side?
What if he does get funded, works it for 6 months and decides to scrap it all because it's too labor intensive?
You can't know. It's all a leap of faith even IF you do fully support the idea.
I like the idea of a recipe uploader bot.
Give it some parameters and it will generate thousands of permutations by varying the grain bill and hops slightly.
Upload 200 recipes each for Porters, Stout, IPA, etc, say 10 types.
Claim each won has won a gold medal at the club level or higher.
Give it some parameters and it will generate thousands of permutations by varying the grain bill and hops slightly.
Upload 200 recipes each for Porters, Stout, IPA, etc, say 10 types.
Claim each won has won a gold medal at the club level or higher.
I spell em like I hear em...
Kickstarter is a lot like the HomeBrewTalk version of Roman fighting pits. Even if you like the fighter you're still there to see a little bloodshed and at a certain point you don't care whose it is.
