Kettle Sour with Saccharomyces

[filthyastronaut]

Looking to do my first kettle sour and would rather use a Saccharomyces saison strain than Brett. From what I understand, pH is often an issue when using Saccharomyces with kettle sours. I don't have a very reliable way of measuring pH, but I'm sure I can get my hands on some pH strips. Can't afford a meter right now as much as I want one.

I was planning to mash normally, lauter into my kettle, bring to boil briefly. cool to 120 degrees, pour into a sanitized fermenter, pitch lactic acid and a Lacto culture, and wait a few days. If I don't monitor pH, when would be a good time to do the actual boil with hop additions and pitch my Saccharomyces, so that the low pH doesn't kill it all off and there is still a noticeable sourness? I figure that answer is not remotely straightforward, but I was hoping for some thoughts on the issue.

This is the recipe I'm planning to use if anybody is interested:

http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/371628/sour-mash-saison

 

[saltymirv]

As far as how long to wait to boil, there's too many variables to give you a definitive answer. Lacto pitch rate, temperature, and amount of oxygen are all important. Without a pH meter you're flying blind, but expect 2-4 days

As far as the Sacc being inhibited, don't worry about it too much. They sometimes take an extra day or two to finish, but I've never had a fermentation stall out or anything. Just pitch a nice healthy culture, I like to do a "vitality starter" where you put the yeast in 500mL of starter and then when it hits high krausen pour the whole starter into your fermenter.

 

[chrilr]

Without a way to check ph, you have to Guage the sourness by taste. There will be an underlying malty sweetness along with your sourness. 2-4 days is a good idea of time but you will not know without trying it first. Also, I over pitch with sacc to make sure there are no off flavors or stalled fermentation with the lower ph.

When I did kettle sours, it took 4-5 days at 108 and 2 at 98.

 

[filthyastronaut]

Thanks for the advice! I think I will go ahead and use the process I described and just use some cheap pH strips. It won't be perfect, but I think good enough for my purposes.

 

[ryanmbeal]

I'd definitely suggest a big starter. I made an average starter with 3711 in a kettle sour and got some serious acetaldehyde during fermentation. Corrected that in a second batch but was left with very little saison character, unfortunately neither batch had the saison yeast profile I was looking for.

My next attempts at a tart saison will be blending a saison with a separate kettle soured batch.