kegging vs. bottling for a first timer

[RufusCobb]

First of all, let me say that I am overwhelmed by how awesome this community is. One little post and a ton of terrific responses and guidance. I'm energized by the support and I haven't even brewed a batch yet. Thanks to all who responded and I can't wait until I have the know-how to pay it forward.

A few follow up questions based on your feedback...

1. Why would a scratch in the bucket ruin it?
2. Is it reasonable to bottle some of a batch and keg some to have the best of both worlds, or is that doubling my work?
3. Can I bottle a few right out of the faucet and expect the beer to stay fresh and not go flat?
4. If I want to brew with extract kits to get started, then move to all grain once I get the hang of things, will I be wasting any of my investment in gear?

-----------------original post-------------------
Hello. I'd like to give home brewing a shot but have no clue on where to start. I'd like to get a basic set up that's not complete junk but nothing fancy and expensive. I think I'd like to be able to keg the beer since I have a kegerator, but I don't know if bottling has advantages. So here are my questions - thanks in advance if you can help me get started.

1. Can you send me a link to a kit that has what I need to get going?
2. What are the pros/cons of kegging vs. bottling?
3. What kind of keg would I need to fit with a standard kegerator - a quick search turns up Cornelius kegs, AEB ball locks, pin locks, and I don't know what any of that means.
4. What styles of beer are the hardest to mess up for a beginner? I like ales, stouts, porters - anything with good body and flavor.
5. Any other general advice or things to avoid?

Thank you! - Rufus

 

[govner1]

Is urge you to read a lot first. A good start is Palmer's book on home brewing.

 

[Yooper]

Hello. I'd like to give home brewing a shot but have no clue on where to start. I'd like to get a basic set up that's not complete junk but nothing fancy and expensive. I think I'd like to be able to keg the beer since I have a kegerator, but I don't know if bottling has advantages. So here are my questions - thanks in advance if you can help me get started.

1. Can you send me a link to a kit that has what I need to get going?
2. What are the pros/cons of kegging vs. bottling?
3. What kind of keg would I need to fit with a standard kegerator - a quick search turns up Cornelius kegs, AEB ball locks, pin locks, and I don't know what any of that means.
4. What styles of beer are the hardest to mess up for a beginner? I like ales, stouts, porters - anything with good body and flavor.
5. Any other general advice or things to avoid?

Thank you! - Rufus

1. It depends on what you already have for kegging, but generally you'd need a c02 tank, some gas and beverage lines, the connectors, and a keg. If you already have a c02 tank, you can just get a basic set up: http://www.kegconnection.com/1-faucet-basic-homebrew-kegerator-kit/ with one or two cornelius kegs.

2. Kegging is not different than bottling, except that the keg is like one big bottle and saves some time. Kegging is more expensive, though.

3. A commercial kegerator has sanke kegs. Those are fine to use, but a bit tricky. Most homebrewers use old soda (cornelius) kegs that use a different fitting. You'd need a kit to convert the fittings, so you could still use a commercial keg in your kegerator: http://www.kegconnection.com/sanke-tap-to-homebrew-conversion-kit-ball-lock-disconects/

4. All ales are about the same in difficulty, but a stout doesn't show mistakes as easily as something like a lighter beer could.

5. I probably would bottle a few batches to make sure I liked brewing before investing hundreds of dollars into the kegging gear.

Brewing isn't at all hard, but there is a bit of learning curve. A good basic ingredients kit from northernbrewer.com or ritebrew.com or austinhomebrew.com can make all the difference. They have the grains, extracts, hops and a good recipe with instructions all set up and it's pretty mistake-proof. I'd go with something like that for the first try. Equipment kits are pretty inexpensive- you can get all you need for under $100.

 

[riderkb]

Hello. I'd like to give home brewing a shot but have no clue on where to start. I'd like to get a basic set up that's not complete junk but nothing fancy and expensive. I think I'd like to be able to keg the beer since I have a kegerator, but I don't know if bottling has advantages. So here are my questions - thanks in advance if you can help me get started.

1. Can you send me a link to a kit that has what I need to get going?
2. What are the pros/cons of kegging vs. bottling?
3. What kind of keg would I need to fit with a standard kegerator - a quick search turns up Cornelius kegs, AEB ball locks, pin locks, and I don't know what any of that means.
4. What styles of beer are the hardest to mess up for a beginner? I like ales, stouts, porters - anything with good body and flavor.
5. Any other general advice or things to avoid?

Thank you! - Rufus

1. Any shop is going to have similar beginner kits. Conventional wisdom says that you should use bucket fermenters. They work just fine, but do not put anything in them except wort, cleaner, sanitizer, and a soft cloth. One scratch will put your bucket out of commission.
2. Kegging is a great labor saver. The only advantage of bottles is for gifts or batches that you will drink slowly. The last two pints in the keg still tie up the entire keg and take up room in your fridge.
3. Homebrewers use Cornelius kegs, which come in two types: pin lock or ball lock. It doesn't matter which you get, but stick with one fitting type to simplify the plumbing.
4. Porter and stout are very good places to start. Hop forward beers are also easy to do from extract.
5. Avoid flavorings and additives - so much beer is ruined by mixing oysters and banannas. Use Starsan - it is very effective and does not need rinsing. Don't be afraid to use a pound or two of corn sugar in a big extract beer - it is hard to get most extract to ferment out dry enough. Dry yeast is very good these days, but there are many yeasts that are only available in liquid - if you try liquid yeast, learn to make a starter. Control the fermentation temp - yeast generate some heat and you have to keep them cool. Happy yeast make tasty beer - keep them happy with plenty of oxygen and no bacteria in the wort. Ignore the zealots who swear you can't make good beer unless you do XYZ - if you like the taste then it is right. Entering a competition can be a good way to get pro grade feedback - it can also suck the fun out of brewing depending on your temperament.

 

[dthoc16]

I am a beginner myself, as I have only brewed 3 beers so far. Here is my take on answering your questions...

1. The Brewers Best kit http://www.homebrewing.org/Beginning-Homebrew-Kit_p_352.html will get you going, with the exception of a pot, and an ingredient kit. ***** See notes below.

2. Kegging is WAY easier, but has a higher initial cost. Since you have a kegerator, the cost will not be that high, but bottling at least once will help give you a good education, and sometimes you will want to bottle anyway. Bottle your fist beer, decide from there.

3. Ball locks are easy, and you can convert you kegerator. Pin locks are usually cheaper, but same principal. Just do a little reading on each, and see what is available for cheap in your area. This is the only subject I will say just do a little more reading. Ball Lock / Pin locks are just connector types.

4. My first kit was the Brewers Best American Light. It has to be damn near impossible to mess up, and is one of the best beers I have tasted. Honestly, if you buy an ingredient kit (especially an extract kit), you just about can't go wrong.

5. Sounds like a good idea... Though if you have a kegerator, your total cost to convert to a Cornelius system would be less than $100 including a keg.

Long Story short, buy a basic kit (no glass carboys or any of that nonsense needed for a first go), get an ingredient kit (it has everything you need, and simple instructions to boot), and give it a try.

*** OK, here is the pot note. A cheap 5 gallon stainless pot on Amazon will run you $27 or so and will do the job easily. If you have an inclination that you will want to pursue this hobby, SPEND THE EXTRA MONEY ON A BIGGER POT. I am 3 beers in, and I have already gone to a 44 quart pot. Also, it can be used for other things (soup, steaming crab legs, etc). I am just telling you that even though it is daunting to spend the money on everything up front, and dropping $100 on a pot sounds steep, you will get there soon eventually. You do not need spouts, a built in thermometer, sight glasses, or special gadgets. The main importance is flexibility. 1. A larger pot will help keep down boil overs. 2. A larger pot will let you move to all grain or larger batches.

Trust me, after you taste a really good beer that you made yourself, there is no going back.

 

[bobeer]

Hello. I'd like to give home brewing a shot but have no clue on where to start. I'd like to get a basic set up that's not complete junk but nothing fancy and expensive. I think I'd like to be able to keg the beer since I have a kegerator, but I don't know if bottling has advantages. So here are my questions - thanks in advance if you can help me get started.

1. Can you send me a link to a kit that has what I need to get going?
2. What are the pros/cons of kegging vs. bottling?
3. What kind of keg would I need to fit with a standard kegerator - a quick search turns up Cornelius kegs, AEB ball locks, pin locks, and I don't know what any of that means.
4. What styles of beer are the hardest to mess up for a beginner? I like ales, stouts, porters - anything with good body and flavor.
5. Any other general advice or things to avoid?

Thank you! - Rufus

I got started with a 5.5 gallon pot, a nylon mesh bag (Brew in a bag-BIAB), a plastic carboy, about 50 bottles, caps and a capper. Read The Joy of Homebrewing before you do anything.

Pros for kegging- If you force carb your beer is ready to drink faster. It's also awesome to pull a fresh pint of your beer. You can dry hop in the keg or add fruit in the keg. It's quicker than bottling and you don't need to store a bunch of bottles. You can bring growlers with you to places.
Pros for bottling- You can age beer better. You can give beer away and not care if you get the bottle back.
In the end I usually keg but I do brew about 3 beers a year that I bottle.

Corney kegs are what most homebrewers use. Ball lock/Pin lock are the different kinds of kegs. Whatever one you use you have to get the corresponding quick disconnects. Either style will work but I prefer ball lock.

There's not a whole lot of differences between the general styles in a general sense- except hop additions. IPA have more hops vs stouts which have less hops. Pale ales are good to start out with as well as stouts, amber ales or pilsners. The key is good fermentation temperature control for any beer.

Read, read, read!

 

[andy6026]

Rather than worry about which particular beer is going to be your first, I think there's other questions you should ask yourself before putting together a shopping list for equipment. Yes, it IS possible to pick up a 'kit' for $100, but if you are somewhat able to foresee how involved you want to get with this hobby, then the closer you'll be to doing things that are 'right for you' right from the get-go.

I'd start with one basic questions, followed up with some more:

1) Do you want to brew from extract kits or do you think you want to brew all-grain?

Neither is hard. Extract brewing is significantly simpler, takes less time and can be done more easily with much less equipment. All-grain brewing is significantly cheaper (after you've invested more in equipment), allows you more control, and according to myself and many other brewers is a lot more satisfying. If you're not sure on the difference between the two, the way i like to explain it is: extract brewing is like making orange juice from a frozen can of concentrate, whereas all-grain is like squeezing the oranges yourself.

Once you answer that question, it will steer somewhat your answers to the next questions:

1) Do you plan on brewing in your kitchen or in your back yard?

You can do both all-grain or extract in the back-yard, but are more likely restricted to only extract if you plan on brewing in your kitchen. If in the back-yard, you'll need a propane burner.

2) All-grain usually requires a mash-tun, a grain-mill and an accurate quick-read thermometer - but not necessarily.

Mashing is a process where you steep the crushed grains in temperature specific water for a certain amount of time. The purpose is to convert the starch in the grains into sugar. In other words, crushed grains and hot water go into the mash-tun, and out comes sugar-water (called wort). To do this "properly" you'll need to crush the grains (with a grain mill), put them into a mash-tun (it's a like a cooler unit with an in-built filter), and heat water to a specific temperature (hence the need for an accurate quick-read thermometer. There are ways around this though - you can do a method called Brew-In-A-Bag (BIAB) which bypasses the need for a mash-tun. You can also get your LHBS to crush the grains for you which bypasses the need for a grain mill, and you can use a cheap floating thermometer or meat-probe thermometer in lieu of an accurate quick-read-thermometer.

3) How big do you want your batches to be, which in turn begs the question as to how big of a kettle will you be comfortable with?

The standard in the brewing community seems to be 5-6 gallon batches. But some people brew less than that per batch, others strive for more. 5-gallon batches seem to be about the maximum one can comfortably do using extract on a stove top in the kitchen (often it requires topping up the batch with water when you put it into the fermenter which many argue reduces marginally the quality of the finished product). If you have a large stock-pot at home then you can probably brew up to 5-gallons at home in your kitchen without the purchase of a propane burner and larger kettle. If you envision regularly doing 5 gallons or more of all-grain, then you will likely be more comfortable in the back yard with a propane burner with a larger kettle. When calculating the size of the kettle you'll be comfortable with, a good rule of thumb is that the kettle ought to have twice the capacity of the size of your finished batch. There are two reasons for that, a) when you start boiling the wort and when you add hops there's a tendency of the liquid to quickly foam up fast and risk spilling over the side, creating a really sticky mess. This is a called a boil-over. Careful monitoring of the kettle and quick control over the heat source can mitigate this risk significantly, but sometimes boil-overs can happen at odd times and for no apparent reason (i.e. not after immediately adding hops, but at a time when the kettle "should" be quite calm). b) you start out with more volume that you need to accommodate than you finish with. The volume you lose in the process is called the 'boil-off'. Combining those two factors mean that if you want to do a 5-gallon batch, then most brewers would recommend that you need at least a 10-gallon kettle (although some will do this in an 8-gallon kettle). Some would even recommend a 15-gallon kettle for a 5-gallon batch. I have 15 gallon kettle and I do 5-6 gallon batches. I have had several boil overs, but probably much fewer than most people doing the same thing in a 10 gallon pot. That said, I now wish I could do 10 gallon batches, but I won't risk it in my 15-gallons kettle. I dream of a 20-25 gallons kettle.

Tying to anticipate what you think you'll grow into is tricky, of course, but if you can do it then it'll save you replacing equipment further down the road.

4) Do you want to keg or bottle your beer?

Kegging allows you better control/accuracy over the carbonation levels of your beer and is a significant time-saver, but is a significantly more expensive outlay on equipment. Personally, I cannot yet afford a kegging set-up, but many of us who bottle will tell you that we go to bed at night dreaming of the day that we've got one. It takes me the better part of 2 hours to bottle a 5-gallon batch. To me it is the least fun part of brewing. In fact, I'm procrastinating right now on bottling a batch by typing this post. If it's in your price range to afford a kegging system then to me it's a no-brainer. BUT, if you're trying to save costs in your brewing set-up, then I'd made this a low priority.

To me those are the most important questions to ask yourself now, briefly summed up:

1) Extract or all-grain.
2) Indoors or outdoors.
3) Batch sizes
4) Kegging vs bottling.

I'd put my money on most brewers "wanting" to be outside brewing all-grain 5-10 gallon batches that go into kegs. That's not everybody though, and not everybody that wants to do that has the money or space to make it happen.

 

[Puddlethumper]

Great advice from all those above. I'd like to chip in a couple short comments that might be helpful:


Kegging is far easier and faster than bottling. It is initially more expensive. But if you have the keezer then you are part-way home already. You do need to check your unit out to find out what kind of kegs it is designed to handle. Perhaps someone in your local brew club can help you sort that out, or failing that, continue the discussion here with some pictures.

The difference between ball-lock and pin-lock kegs is more than just the fittings. They are also different height and diameter. This might be another factor. You should to take some measurements of your unit if you find you need to decide which keg style you'll go with.

If you are going to buy a kettle don't buy a cheap one. I made that mistake in buying a "starter kit" from one of the mail-order houses. The "5 gallon" kettle that came with it was flimsy thin steel and it would only hold 4 gallons because it leaked at the rivets holding the handles on. It's really just a $40 piece of junk. None of us need that kind of stuff laying around. A good stainless kettle can be had for $70 - $100. As others have said, get at least an 8 gal. (32 qt.) kettle for brewing. A plain kettle without spuds welded on for fittings will serve you well for many years of brewing and, if you decide you don't want to continue in the hobby, you'll still have a good kettle to use for crab-boils or whatever. A good kettle also has resale value where a cheap one has very little.

And I would echo the advice above to start with an extract batch. Avoid "pre-hopped" kits. Extract batches that include steeping grains get you a lot closer to the quality of beer you can expect to be making if you continue in the hobby.

And feel free to continue to post in this forum. There are a whole bunch of very knowledgeable and helpful people here. Best of luck to you!

Cheers!

 

[beergolf]

Here are my thoughts.

Yea I do keg but I also bottle.

Kegging has it's good points but there are drawbacks also.

Everyone talks about how much easier it is, but the difference is not that great. Sure if your kegs are clean and ready to go it is faster, but there still is cleaning and maintenance required to keg, so the difference is not as much as most make it out to be. Bottling, on the other hand does not take that long if you clean your bottles as you drink them. I tripple rinse my bottles when I drink them. I always keep clean bottles on hand. I usually bottle when I brew, so I can bottle while I am mashing my brew. No extra time required. To sanitize and bottle a batch only takes about 30 minutes while the mash is going. Tearing down kegs and cleaning them takes at least that much time.

I have two taps. A nitro tap for stouts and also Irish Red's. I rotate them out. Can I do that with bottles? No. Then my second tap is for a regular every day beer. I love my nitro tap so I will always kegs some beers . The other tap is nice sometimes if I just want a smaller portion.

Now here are the pluses and minuses for each method.

I like variety, and have as many as 20 different brews in bottles and usually 8-10 different brews in my beer fridge at all times. (edit: I just counted. 13 different brews in my fridge) Can I do that with kegs? no. I brew a lot of Belgians and Saisons. Can I age them in kegs? No, because it would require a ton of kegs. I have many beers that are years old. Can I tie up a keg with only a little in it for a couple of years? No.

The other thing is you have a limited number of kegs. If a brew is ready but your kegs are not empty, then what. Your options are to drink heavily to try to kick a keg so you can keg your batch, or wait. I have accumulated a ton of bottles so if a keg is not empty, I can throw it in bottles easily. I aquired all the bottles from friends so, they cost me nothing. Sure you can bottle from kegs but some styles are just better bottle conditioned.

Before I get all hung up on the bottling or kegging debate, I would reccomend several other things to make good beer. I would think about good brewing practice. Think about pitching the proper amount of good healthy yeast. So look into getting a stir plate to make starters. Next I would look at controling yoru fermentation temps. These two thing will make better beer. If you do not do this the bottling or kegging debate means squat.

Give me a good quality bottled beer over a poor quality kegged beer any day.

 

[bragona71]

All very good advice..I can say I have pin lock keg and Im not happy with it..Im going to upgrade to ball lock. easier to clean the input/output and release pressure.The price difference is 10 bucks or so.just my 2 cents

 

[wapitiscat]

Follow the advice in this thread so far and keep checking back at HBT. Get a starter kit and a couple cases of empties. Brew a batch, ferment, bottle and drink. Repeat. You'll know when to move to partial mashes, kegging, etc. Also, if you have a friend or neighbor that is mildly interested in homebrewing, rope them into assisting. Sometimes it can be easier to get started when someone else is sharing the excitement, trepidation, pain, euphoria.

Also, your local homebrew supply (LHBS) may have learn to brew days or some such event. Another good way to get started.

Todd

 

[MattyIce]

I kegged my second batch. Totally worth the expense. You can always bottle a few when you go from fermenter to keg. You can also bottle from the faucet.

 

[talos4]

Here's my two cents, I got into brewing with my brother who had been brewing for several years. I always had commercial beer on tap. I was tired of paying too much for crap beer. I invested in 2 used corny's,(ball locks) gasket kit for each and a few fittings (in & outs) to convert my sankey system.

We split up our 10 gal batches between us. However life being what it is our brewing sessions at his house, were not keeping up with consumption.

I decided to brew at home. I started with a large soup pot and a couple of one gallon extract kits on the stove top. Pretty simple, not much in the way of supplies needed, outside of what I already had for kegging.

Kegging a 1 gallon batch makes no sense at all so I bottled them.
I quickly realized bottling wasn't for me.

I've moved up to 5 gal BIAB. small investment for a few essentials - siphons, fermenter (really a plastic bucket) hydrometer, etc. I do still do it on the stove top, however arthritic hands necessitate a move to the garage with a pulley lift for the bag in the very near future.

I did luck out on the pot though. I got my brothers double drilled 10.5 gal pot.

So kegging is the way I go.

Start small, do a couple one gallon batches, get a feel for brewing that way first. Extracts really do produce some very good results. I was very skeptical. Only because I was introduced to brewing with an all grain brewing system