Keg Fermenter - IPA - when to dry hop before fermentation is complete?

[renstyle]

Currently have a Summit Saga IPA homage fermenting in a corny keg in the ferm chamber, bubbling away (no spunding).

I have a 1060 OG, heading for (hopefully) a 1011 FG. Currently at 1050 about 28hrs in.

The recipe calls for a 3 day dry hop. I've heard others drop their dry hops very near, but not at the end, of fermentation. Eats up any residual oxygen that ingressed while dropping the hops, so figured why not?

Plan is to crash about 2 days after hitting FG, then closed xfer to a serving keg (floating dip tube with filter in fermenter, regular tube on serving). That means about a day with the dry hops in active, but declining, fermentation. I'll purge the headspace 2-3x after I do the drop (pellets, free).

My random thought generator settled on 1020(ish) gravity would be a good spot to do the drop and let it ride.

Any rules of thumb others have followed?

 

[3 Dawg Night]

If you haven't seen it, Scott Janish has a good writeup on dry hopping.

 

[renstyle]

If you haven't seen it, Scott Janish has a good writeup on dry hopping.

Funny you mention... in my question above, Scott is the "others who've I've heard"... LOL

Yup, read thru that just before my initial post... nice of him to toss all of Ch 7 online, I really should pick up that book.

At 72hrs in my IPA is right at 1020, which is ~82% complete and still bubblin' away, so his 3-5 day window seems to be holding in my case.

Methinks I'll give it another 8 or 9 hours and drop the hops then. Give it the weekend to finish out and crash on Sunday. Then closed transfer to a serving keg.

That brings up another question, ironically prompted by that same article. The dry hop exposure time ranges from 24hrs to <alot longer>.

As I've never dry hopped an IPA myself, wondering what the sweet spot will be timing-wise?
Using 1oz of Citra and 1oz of Simcoe for the dry hop, and I'll be leaving the charge in the ferm keg all the way till I transfer to serving, prolly Tuesday.

Two days will be at 18C/64F, the remainder at crash temp 4C/39F.

 

[Jag75]

I tend to dry hop for 3 to 4 days .

 

[3 Dawg Night]

I've dry hopped anywhere from 3-7 days, and I couldn't tell much of a difference. I drop at high kraussen, for the reasons you mention above.

 

[Knightshade]

Since you’re fermenting in keg, push some co2 at a couple PSI to it before you’re ready to open the keg. Pull the PRV and let it flow. Open it up, drop the hops, put the lid back on, reset the PRV when ready, do a couple purges if you think it’s necessary and disconnect the co2. Done.

 

[McMullan]

If fermenting is under pressure, I'd add hops to a second sanitised keg and purge the air with CO2 from fermentation, where the 2nd keg (with spunding) is hooked up to the primary keg/fermenter at the start. With fermentation complete I'd simply rearrange the jumper line so beer transfers as CO2 is released from keg 2.

BTW, I thought The New IPA, apart from being a nice collection of info re the current state of affairs for hoppiness, was let down by a general lack of what's generally a better strategy. It wasn't the kind of 'scientific guide' I was anticipating. I can't say it's made a great deal of difference to my IPAs so far, to be honest. A nice coffee table book, though.

 

[rootAndBoom]

Funny you mention... in my question above, Scott is the "others who've I've heard"... LOL

Yup, read thru that just before my initial post... nice of him to toss all of Ch 7 online, I really should pick up that book.

At 72hrs in my IPA is right at 1020, which is ~82% complete and still bubblin' away, so his 3-5 day window seems to be holding in my case.

Methinks I'll give it another 8 or 9 hours and drop the hops then. Give it the weekend to finish out and crash on Sunday. Then closed transfer to a serving keg.

That brings up another question, ironically prompted by that same article. The dry hop exposure time ranges from 24hrs to <alot longer>.

As I've never dry hopped an IPA myself, wondering what the sweet spot will be timing-wise?
Using 1oz of Citra and 1oz of Simcoe for the dry hop, and I'll be leaving the charge in the ferm keg all the way till I transfer to serving, prolly Tuesday.

Two days will be at 18C/64F, the remainder at crash temp 4C/39F.

For next time, you might even consider adding the dry hop charge at yeast pitch. I ferment in kegs and have had a lot of success with this.

If you transfer to another keg for serving you've got maybe 7-10 days of contact time; I've even served from the same keg and never remove the charge at all. Never had an issue with grassy flavors or anything else people mention, but maybe I just don't taste them!

 

[greywolf]

That's how I do it. Toss em in with the yeast and never open it again. I serve from the same keg and also have not noticed any off flavors. You will need a floating dip tube for this, tho.

 

[3 Dawg Night]

All you folks saying to dry hop at pitching, do you increase the amount of your dry hop to compensate for CO2 scrubbing during fermentation?

 

[Jag75]

All you folks saying to dry hop at pitching, do you increase the amount of your dry hop to compensate for CO2 scrubbing during fermentation?

Dry hopping early in the game is a NEIPA biotransformation thing. I've done it in the past but no more. As far as IPA's I just dry hop 3 days or so before I package. I've found that the hop shines through so much better then early dry hops.

I'm not worried about o2 . I run co2 as I dry hop, keeping o2 out of my fv. Never had an issue .

 

[renstyle]

Since you’re fermenting in keg, push some co2 at a couple PSI to it before you’re ready to open the keg. Pull the PRV and let it flow. Open it up, drop the hops, put the lid back on, reset the PRV when ready, do a couple purges if you think it’s necessary and disconnect the co2. Done.

This was a good explanation!

Put about 4 PSI on the gas post and opened the PRV, let it roll for about 10 seconds.
Popped open the lid and dumped the hops (pellet, no bag, I've got a filter on the floating dip tube), CO2 pushing the whole time
- noticed fermentation was still pretty active, a good sign!
- the batch is about 1014 now, I may go lower than my 1011 target. I'll let ya know.
Sealed up the lid and closed the prv, bump to 20 and did 3 purges.

For giggles I added a spunding valve set to 5 PSI on my gas post, ran the output into a blowoff jar. She pressurised and was bubbling (slowly) within a minute.

Now I'll just leave it till Sunday

 

[renstyle]

Gotta love DIY!

 

[Knightshade]

This was a good explanation!

Put about 4 PSI on the gas post and opened the PRV, let it roll for about 10 seconds.
Popped open the lid and dumped the hops (pellet, no bag, I've got a filter on the floating dip tube), CO2 pushing the whole time
- noticed fermentation was still pretty active, a good sign!
- the batch is about 1014 now, I may go lower than my 1011 target. I'll let ya know.
Sealed up the lid and closed the prv, bump to 20 and did 3 purges.

For giggles I added a spunding valve set to 5 PSI on my gas post, ran the output into a blowoff jar. She pressurised and was bubbling (slowly) within a minute.

Now I'll just leave it till Sunday

Somebody else on here mentioned it, so I tried it. It is remarkably easy. Especially compared to trying to do the same thing on a modified fermonster. Running the CO2 while spinning the cap off/on was a real PITA.

 

[Brooothru]

If fermenting is under pressure, I'd add hops to a second sanitised keg and purge the air with CO2 from fermentation, where the 2nd keg (with spunding) is hooked up to the primary keg/fermenter at the start. With fermentation complete I'd simply rearrange the jumper line so beer transfers as CO2 is released from keg 2.

View attachment 752456
View attachment 752457

BTW, I thought The New IPA, apart from being a nice collection of info re the current state of affairs for hoppiness, was let down by a general lack of what's generally a better strategy. It wasn't the kind of 'scientific guide' I was anticipating. I can't say it's made a great deal of difference to my IPAs so far, to be honest. A nice coffee table book, though.

I really like the setup you've got there, McM. I have the same 7.75 gallon kegmenter, but have been using it as the second keg. Ferment in an unpressurized but temperature controlled conical, then transfer to the kegmenter (room temperature) with about 5 points to go before FG. Temperature free rises to ~65F while the beer spunds and conditions, then gets transferred to a serving keg and refrigerated to crash and settle. Floating dip tubes in both the kegmenter and serving keg. Every step from filling the conical to tapping the conditioned keg is a closed, pressurized transfer into a purged and sealed vessel. The whole process is much easier with fewer steps when I use my unitank, but it usually has a lager in it.

The kegmenter and extra keg with floating dip tubes was a much less expensive proposition than a brite tank or a second unitank. The only shortcomings are: 1) additional transfer steps, 2) extra CO2 to push the wort/beer, 3) no temperature control in the kegmenter, and 4) dry hopping without introducing O2 into the purged tank. I'm on track to solving the LoDO hop dropper issue. Just awaiting some fittings and parts. The temperature control issue is a little more involved. I've toyed with the notion of bending copper tubing around the radius of the kegmenter, wrapping in reflectex and plumbing it to my glycol chiller, but I doubt it would chill efficiently and the cost of copper would get expensive quickly. Tell me about that fermentation chamber you have, as well as the scale you have under the receiving keg.

 

[renstyle]

What type of filtering, if any are you using with your floating dip tubes?

I picked up a few of the KL filters from Williams for $3/ea. I do my closed transfers regulated with a spunding valve, and they do a decent job.

This'll be my first time dealing with loose hop matter from a dry hop. Cold crashing should drop most of the hop bits before transfer. Will see how these filters perform then. See if my omission of a mesh bag to hold the hops presents any issue.

 

[McMullan]

I really like the setup you've got there, McM. I have the same 7.75 gallon kegmenter, but have been using it as the second keg. Ferment in an unpressurized but temperature controlled conical, then transfer to the kegmenter (room temperature) with about 5 points to go before FG. Temperature free rises to ~65F while the beer spunds and conditions, then gets transferred to a serving keg and refrigerated to crash and settle. Floating dip tubes in both the kegmenter and serving keg. Every step from filling the conical to tapping the conditioned keg is a closed, pressurized transfer into a purged and sealed vessel. The whole process is much easier with fewer steps when I use my unitank, but it usually has a lager in it.

The kegmenter and extra keg with floating dip tubes was a much less expensive proposition than a brite tank or a second unitank. The only shortcomings are: 1) additional transfer steps, 2) extra CO2 to push the wort/beer, 3) no temperature control in the kegmenter, and 4) dry hopping without introducing O2 into the purged tank. I'm on track to solving the LoDO hop dropper issue. Just awaiting some fittings and parts. The temperature control issue is a little more involved. I've toyed with the notion of bending copper tubing around the radius of the kegmenter, wrapping in reflectex and plumbing it to my glycol chiller, but I doubt it would chill efficiently and the cost of copper would get expensive quickly. Tell me about that fermentation chamber you have, as well as the scale you have under the receiving keg.

I'm really happy with mine. Got 3 now. Very flexible vessels for home brewers. Unfortunately, they are too big for most fridges so controlling fermentation temperature isn't so easy. I've heard of home brewers adapting Kegland's Fermzilla cooling coils. I remember them saying they were going to come up with a solution specifically at some point.

 

[McMullan]

What type of filtering, if any are you using with your floating dip tubes?

I picked up a few of the KL filters from Williams for $3/ea. I do my closed transfers regulated with a spunding valve, and they do a decent job.

This'll be my first time dealing with loose hop matter from a dry hop. Cold crashing should drop most of the hop bits before transfer. Will see how these filters perform then. See if my omission of a mesh bag to hold the hops presents any issue.

I use caskwidge floats that have a SS fine mesh incorporated, in my kegs. I think 'UK Brewing' supply them in the US. I use Kegland's SS ball floats during pressure fermentation in the kegmenters.

 

[Brooothru]

I'm really happy with mine. Got 3 now. Very flexible vessels for home brewers. Unfortunately, they are too big for most fridges so controlling fermentation temperature isn't so easy. I've heard of home brewers adapting Kegland's Fermzilla cooling coils. I remember them saying they were going to come up with a solution specifically at some point.

The BrewBuilt Mini-Max Coolstix (MoreBeer) is available with a 1.5" TC connector that attaches to a glycol chiller. BrewBuilt also makes a 4" TC x 1.5" TC reducer lid that has Gas In and Beer Out posts on the lid, but no PRV, which totally sets up an unsafe condition unless you used the 1.5" TC to mount a PRV somewhere downstream of the reducer. One possible workaround would be to get a 4" TC spacer spool (2" length), drill a hole in the side radius and tap a ¼" NPT thread to mount a permanent ¼" MNTP keg type PRV. That way you would always have a dedicated PRV for safety between the tank opening and any downstream obstructions, as well as the means for depressurizing the tank before removing the 4" TC lid, thus saving yourself guaranteed messy embarrassment (best case) or possible injury and/or death (worst case).

Messin' with pressurized fluids can be serious business. Don't be that guy!

 

[rootAndBoom]

All you folks saying to dry hop at pitching, do you increase the amount of your dry hop to compensate for CO2 scrubbing during fermentation?

Nope.

I also haven't taken the plunge on a floating dip tube yet, nor have I bent my original tube. I do use a bag for dry hops, but other than that everything just works (at least it has for me), as long as you're willing to put up with a few pints of sludge when you first tap the keg.