Joe's Ancient Orange Mead

[RPh_Guy]

My only concern is that this is going to end up being very sweet...I measured an OG of 1.150

Might have to brew a drier batch to blend in with this one...what do you guys think?

It is too sweet for my taste. If I use this recipe again it will be with less honey.

 

[Anon111]

It is too sweet for my taste. If I use this recipe again it will be with less honey.

Just wanted to say thanks to Yoop for being an awesome contributor to this forum!

Last night I made my first batch ever based on this recipe. I used one navel orange (zest and meat...tried to remove as much pith as possible), 3.5lbs orange blossom honey, 25 raisins, one cinnamon stick, and one clove.

Steeped the ingredients in ~70oz of water at 140-150* for 10 mins. Didn't account for the volume of honey and when I poured it into the carboy there was maybe 1-1.5" of room. Hopefully the fermentation doesn't get too crazy! Pitched in some D47 instead of bread yeast and there was already activity in the airlock this morning.

My only concern is that this is going to end up being very sweet...I measured an OG of 1.150

Might have to brew a drier batch to blend in with this one...what do you guys think?

Add some champagne yeast to finish it off?

 

[rlmiller10]

Pitched in some D47 instead of bread yeast and there was already activity in the airlock this morning.

My only concern is that this is going to end up being very sweet...I measured an OG of 1.150

Might have to brew a drier batch to blend in with this one...what do you guys think?

I find gravity readings on mead to be suspect. Does not seem to mix well even when it looks mixed. Although I usually get low reads not high. 1.150 OG would indicate about 4.4 lb of honey per gallon, perhaps a bit less as the orange will add a bit of sugar.

Anyhow, since you used D47 instead of bread yeast (should be in the don't do that thread but that is for another day) unless it stalls D47 will eat through a lot of sugar. Although probably not up to 19% alcohol as a true 1.150 OG would give.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Add some champagne yeast to finish it off?

Nah next time I will do it right with yeast nutrient, a yeast strain selected for fermentation, and a different mix of spices or fruit (I think honey, orange, cinnamon & clove is a little weird). This is a good simple mead recipe for beginners but once was probably enough for me, unless with aging it turns fantastic.
I put it in 6oz bottles and will open one every 3 months, so December I'll have my taste of JAOM bottled 6 months.

Adding champagne yeast would probably create more problems than it would solve, by my guess.

 

[cpham574]

Add some champagne yeast to finish it off?

Since this is my first batch, I'm probably just gonna continue as is so I can have a foundation to work with for future batches.

I find gravity readings on mead to be suspect. Does not seem to mix well even when it looks mixed. Although I usually get low reads not high. 1.150 OG would indicate about 4.4 lb of honey per gallon, perhaps a bit less as the orange will add a bit of sugar.

Anyhow, since you used D47 instead of bread yeast (should be in the don't do that thread but that is for another day) unless it stalls D47 will eat through a lot of sugar. Although probably not up to 19% alcohol as a true 1.150 OG would give.

I heated the water, 3.5lbs honey, zest, oranges, cinnamon stick, and clove to 150* and was stirring most of the time. The sample I took was from the top of the mixture and cooled before taking a reading. Is it possible that it still wasn't mixed well?

What's wrong with D47? I've been reading that it's a solid strain.

Adding champagne yeast would probably create more problems than it would solve, by my guess.

I'm gonna be doing the same thing! I agree about the champagne yeast, even if it fermented this dry, the alcohol would be nuts and probably take forever to mellow out

 

[rlmiller10]

I heated the water, 3.5lbs honey, zest, oranges, cinnamon stick, and clove to 150* and was stirring most of the time. The sample I took was from the top of the mixture and cooled before taking a reading. Is it possible that it still wasn't mixed well?

What's wrong with D47? I've been reading that it's a solid strain.

sure sounds like it should be mixed. And with 3.5 lb of honey you should have about 118 points of gravity. So if you figure not quite a full gallon due to head space and the fruit and spice take up some room if you only had .8 gallon of liquid total that would and OG of 1.148. So your 1.150 sounds reasonable.

And nothing is wrong with D47. But you can't make JAOM with it. JAOM purposely uses bread yeast so that the yeast kills itself before the mead goes dry. D47 works great (I find I have better luck with 71B though) but will go dry if it can.

 

[cpham574]

sure sounds like it should be mixed. And with 3.5 lb of honey you should have about 118 points of gravity. So if you figure not quite a full gallon due to head space and the fruit and spice take up some room if you only had .8 gallon of liquid total that would and OG of 1.148. So your 1.150 sounds reasonable.

And nothing is wrong with D47. But you can't make JAOM with it. JAOM purposely uses bread yeast so that the yeast kills itself before the mead goes dry. D47 works great (I find I have better luck with 71B though) but will go dry if it can.

Gotcha, thanks for the info! I'm hoping that the D47 doesn't dry out the mead. If it does then I may have to back sweeten. I may make another batch soon, but with jackfruit instead of orange and only 3lbs of honey. The publix by me has grade A orange blossom honey that tastes delicious already. Hoping that it becomes my go-to in mead recipes

 

[wcraigjohnston]

I have something similar in the carboy

Holiday Spiced Meade
Makes ~5 gallons

10 lbs honey
zest of 3 oranges
zest of 3 tangerines
3 tbs. cinnamon (original recipe called for stick, but they added no flavor)
3 tbs. vanilla extract (use the real stuff, cheapskate!)
yeast - I use standard wine yeast
1 tbs yeast nutrient (I find this very optional)

Boil 5 gallons of water, treat as necessary for standard pH etc.
turn off the heat
add honey and mix thoroughly - do not boil the honey!
pull a cup or two of the liquid, cool and use as a yeast starter
cool to 60℉
take a hydrometer reading here . It should predict about 10-12%abv
transfer to fermenter (I use a 5 or 6 gallon glass carboy)
pitch the yeast (yes, add it to the fermenter)
airlock the fermenter

wait

wait some more

once it clears you can bottle/drink it

I usually drink my meades still, but carbonation is possible. Be careful how you bottle (usual stuff about bottle bombs, etc.)

Happy Holidays!

 

[cpham574]

sure sounds like it should be mixed. And with 3.5 lb of honey you should have about 118 points of gravity. So if you figure not quite a full gallon due to head space and the fruit and spice take up some room if you only had .8 gallon of liquid total that would and OG of 1.148. So your 1.150 sounds reasonable.

And nothing is wrong with D47. But you can't make JAOM with it. JAOM purposely uses bread yeast so that the yeast kills itself before the mead goes dry. D47 works great (I find I have better luck with 71B though) but will go dry if it can.

20 days in and gravity has dropped from 1.150 to 1.027! Still getting some airlock activity too. Bubbling a few times a minute. Raisins and orange meat still floating on top, but most of the zest and some raisins have sunk to the bottom.

The sample tastes pretty good. Definitely a little hot from the 16% abv, but it has a nice honey and orange taste. Not getting any cinnamon or clove tho. I think the cinnamon stick I used doesn't add much anyway...it's very mild (Badia brand).

 

[rlmiller10]

20 days in and gravity has dropped from 1.150 to 1.027! Still getting some airlock activity too. Bubbling a few times a minute. Raisins and orange meat still floating on top, but most of the zest and some raisins have sunk to the bottom.

The sample tastes pretty good. Definitely a little hot from the 16% abv, but it has a nice honey and orange taste. Not getting any cinnamon or clove tho. I think the cinnamon stick I used doesn't add much anyway...it's very mild (Badia brand).

sounds very good. If you want more spice you can still add more cimmamon and clove.

 

[rlmiller10]

Just opened a bottle from 2013. Takes away any fear I had of overdoing the clove or cinnamon. Those flavors have faded leaving mostly the orange flavor. So I know I can always let the spice fade if I overdo it. It is still a fine drink and I am enjoying it but it is a different drink than it was when younger.

 

[Yooper]

Just opened a bottle from 2013. Takes away any fear I had of overdoing the clove or cinnamon. Those flavors have faded leaving mostly the orange flavor. So I know I can always let the spice fade if I overdo it. It is still a fine drink and I am enjoying it but it is a different drink than it was when younger.

Which do you prefer? You like it better when it's younger? I've aged wine and other meads, but this one I know we drank young and didn't age much.

 

[rlmiller10]

Which do you prefer? You like it better when it's younger? I've aged wine and other meads, but this one I know we drank young and didn't age much.

I like both. But I prefer a bit younger when it still has a bit of spice.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I just had a bottle aged 6 months. Delicious! Smooth and really honey-forward taste, with nice spice blend in the background. Orange flavor is not really noticeable.

I followed the recipe exactly.
I was on the fence about making this again but now I'm sold although I will reduce the honey quantity just a bit.

Cheers

 

[Tarpon87]

I'll be doing my first JAOM shortly and I have a question....I know I know, just do the recipe as is...and I am with maybe 1 exception. My understanding is the raisins are just to add some yeast nutrient, I don't have any raisins at home, but I do have currants. They are both dried grapes, can I use the currants instead and save a couple bucks at the grocery store since it's just to feed the yeast?

 

[rlmiller10]

First currant are not grapes, they are a separate fruit. But now that I am done being a botanist, yes, use the currants, they will be fine at providing the nutrients. Most any dried fruit will work or yeast nutrient as far as that goes.

 

[RPh_Guy]

"Zante currants" are common to find in stores and come up as grapes (Corinth variety) from multiple web sources.
Blackcurrants (the "real" thing??) are not grapes and are much more difficult to find in stores in my experience in the US.

Please let us know which "currants" you use and how it turns out. I'd love to find some and use them in a batch of JAOM.

 

[Tarpon87]

They were Zante currants

 

[Kalaloch]

Not sure if this was answered but will the bread yeast work if I am bottling this and will be adding priming sugar? Meaning will enough bread yeast be alive and powerful enough to carbonate the bottles?

I may make a 5 gallon batch to make it worth the work of bottling

 

[rlmiller10]

Not sure if this was answered but will the bread yeast work if I am bottling this and will be adding priming sugar? Meaning will enough bread yeast be alive and powerful enough to carbonate the bottles?

I may make a 5 gallon batch to make it worth the work of bottling

Bottle conditioning will be difficult. One reason for using bread yeast is that it stalls out (dies of alcohol poisoning) at a fairly low level thus leaving unfermented sugar in the finished product. So adding priming sugar will just add more sugar that can't be used.

If you were to add a different yeast, one that could carry on to a higher alcohol level you would risk bottle bombs or pushed corks if you just added and bottled or if you waited after adding, you would end up with a dry mead, not a JAOM.

About the only ways to carbonate JAOM is mechanical, i.e. keg and hit it with CO2, or to add a wine/champagne yeast but then pasteurize when the desired carbonation level has been reached.

 

[rlmiller10]

"Zante currants" are common to find in stores and come up as grapes (Corinth variety) from multiple web sources.
Blackcurrants (the "real" thing??) are not grapes and are much more difficult to find in stores in my experience in the US.

Please let us know which "currants" you use and how it turns out. I'd love to find some and use them in a batch of JAOM.

Thanks for the info. I didn't realize a dried grape was marketed as a current. I have both black and red current bushes as well as half a dozen varieties of grape vines. But you post sent me to Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zante_currant

 

[Kalaloch]

Bottle conditioning will be difficult. One reason for using bread yeast is that it stalls out (dies of alcohol poisoning) at a fairly low level thus leaving unfermented sugar in the finished product. So adding priming sugar will just add more sugar that can't be used.

If you were to add a different yeast, one that could carry on to a higher alcohol level you would risk bottle bombs or pushed corks if you just added and bottled or if you waited after adding, you would end up with a dry mead, not a JAOM.

About the only ways to carbonate JAOM is mechanical, i.e. keg and hit it with CO2, or to add a wine/champagne yeast but then pasteurize when the desired carbonation level has been reached.

Ok thanks. what is a JAOM?

 

[rlmiller10]

Ok thanks. what is a JAOM?

Joe's Ancient Orange Mead

 

[fragged]

Finally got around to bottling mine today (and sampling) after 2+ months. Pretty sure mead will be regularly stocked in the bar now.

 

[Hankhill11]

I started my first crack at this today after sampling some Viking Blood mead. I followed the instructions but had to use golden raisins. I doubt that will matter

 

[RPh_Guy]

I started my first crack at this today after sampling some Viking Blood mead. I followed the instructions but had to use golden raisins. I doubt that will matter

Did you like Viking Blod? I have a hard time choking down a glass of it.
I'd wager you'll find your JAOM a lot more palatable.
Cheers

 

[Hankhill11]

I'd wager you'll find your JAOM a lot more palatable.
Cheers

If that's so, then i'm excited. I liked Viking Blood. It had a funny after taste, but drinking it from frig cold to nearly room temp with little sips, I enjoyed it a lot. It is rather expensive though.

 

[Byron Sonne]

Well, making my 3rd batch of it! First batch came out to about 13%, I backed off with the amount of honey in the second batch and that one was 9.5%. I (of course) use only the bread yeast and both times the mead has come out really dry, and was clear after 3 weeks. It worked fast for me both times. Room temperature was probably about 25C in closet where I store it.

I make mine in a 19l carboy, after scaling up the recipe proportionately. Except, dammit, I just realized I forgot to add the raisins last night. I'll do that when I get home today... but I'm curious, has anyone tried it without raisins, just the organge and spices? I searched on the thread and couldn't find anything on this. I used 4 very large oranges, sorta hoping that there's enough nutrients in the oranges (I'm not sure, aside from tannins, what nutrients exist in raisins that would not exist in an orange).

 

[RPh_Guy]

....I just realized I forgot to add the raisins last night. I'll do that when I get home today... but I'm curious, has anyone tried it without raisins, just the organge and spices? I searched on the thread and couldn't find anything on this. I used 4 very large oranges, sorta hoping that there's enough nutrients in the oranges (I'm not sure, aside from tannins, what nutrients exist in raisins that would not exist in an orange).

From my understanding the raisins are solely for body/tannins. The nutrient they add is non-significant.

I think it still makes plenty of sense to add them at this point.

 

[Byron Sonne]

On another note, I was just talking to an aunt in Denmark, and she mentioned that at some point she adds a tablespoon of salt for 30 minutes before or during bottling (google translation with my family's dialect is not very precise, lol). Now, I've done some research in the past regarding fusel oils and I wonder if this is part of conditioning it before bottling... ie mix in some saline solution, let stand for 30 minutes, then decant to eliminate some amount of amyl alcohol or whatever.

 

[RPh_Guy]

On another note, I was just talking to an aunt in Denmark, and she mentioned that at some point she adds a tablespoon of salt for 30 minutes before or during bottling (google translation with my family's dialect is not very precise, lol). Now, I've done some research in the past regarding fusel oils and I wonder if this is part of conditioning it before bottling... ie mix in some saline solution, let stand for 30 minutes, then decant to eliminate some amount of amyl alcohol or whatever.

Huh?
Both NaCl and amyl alcohol are completely water soluble.

 

[Byron Sonne]

Indeed, but search for 'brine' in this article... tbh, I'm still not sure exactly what she means (but I don't want to jack this thread too deeply) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amyl_alcohol

To wit: "The most important is isobutyl carbinol, the chief constituent of fermentation amyl alcohol and a constituent of fusel oil. It can be separated from fusel oil by either of two methods: shaking with strong brine solution and separating the oily layer from the brine layer"

 

[RPh_Guy]

^^^ If anyone is taking this seriously I have some magic beans to sell you ;]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_and_the_Beanstalk


(No offense)

 

[Byron Sonne]

heh, none taken. I'm just trying to figure out what she's talking about regarding salt, as I've never heard that before, and I'm grasping at straws!

 

[R.M. Mead Productions]

Any succes with JAOM using orange zest and peeled oranges. And has anyone used Lalvin D47 in a JAOM and how did it turn out?

 

[RPh_Guy]

I have used D47 and it turned out good but it was not as drinkable as soon as my batches with the bread yeast were. The batches I have done without the white pith of the orange were the best,. The pros of using D47 were that it was easier to bottle and keep it clear. The cons of using it were the higher ABV which means it will take longer to age out the heat, and the temp range of D47 is very low so I can only use it during the fall and winter.

This. Thread search
And

It'll be drier, since bread yeast isn't very attenuative. The bread yeast leaves it pretty sweet, and the d47 has a much higher alcohol tolerance and may take it dry. It'll still be really good, especially if you don't like sweet meads anyway.

 

[R.M. Mead Productions]

This. Thread search
And

Thankyou very much, I didn't want to have to read the 70 pages. I never realized there was a way to search inside a thread.

 

[Peter D Day]

Hello members. I'm a new member and a beekeeper, and I just make my first batch of Joe's Ancient Orange Mead. I was wondering if anyone can tell me at approximately what ABV the Fleishmann's yeast will stop working?

 

[RPh_Guy]

Hello members. I'm a new member and a beekeeper, and I just make my first batch of Joe's Ancient Orange Mead. I was wondering if anyone can tell me at approximately what ABV the Fleishmann's yeast will stop working?

... 10% on gravity readings from the ones I have made. There is some variability. I have had from 12% to 8%....

Cheers

 

[Peter D Day]

Thanks for the response RPh Guy.